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Topic: The viability of bundling 2 types of controllers.

Posts 1 to 16 of 16

iKhan

A lot of people believe that if Nintendo bundled both a innovative controller and a DS2 style controller with their system, they could reach both groups who like hardware progression and old-fashioned players.

But is this really viable? The Wii U already costs significantly more than it's spec value. Bundling an additional pro-controller would either put them 30 more dollars in the hole, or force them to increase the cost. That's not to mention the opportunity cost from the lost sales of second controllers. In regards to function, the Wii U Gamepad does everything the Pro-Controller does and more, so it's not really giving game developers a better controller option for ports either.

But what if Nintendo puts out something closer to the Wii Remote, which DOESN'T have the same functionality as the Pro Controller? I think it's a little bit more up in the air. Obviously, there is still the same cost problem, but including something like the Pro Controller makes it easier for developers to direct port their games to the new system. That said, this could be a double edged sword. Without controller limitations, you may see far more developers take the easy way out and completely skip the new controller. They could be at risk of their new controller being completely forgotten by the wayside, as public perception ignores the new and sticks to the comfortable.

In my opinion, the best option is to simply ensure the new innovative controller has at least the same number of inputs as the DualShock 2 (the current standard for number/type controller inputs). Then you don't have a cost problem, and the system is publicly perceived with just the one controller and it's original ideas. Developers can still take the route of directly porting the buttons, but there is a united advertising around a single controller, so the public expectation for experimentation will be stronger.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

BlueSkies

I think the NX should have a stereoscopic camera like PS4 with two wands that have all of the keys and functions of a normal dual analog pad. It doesn't mean that motion based games will use dual analog-- it means you don't have to buy a second controller for third party ports. There can still be a wireless dual analog pad as an option, but I don't see a reason to design the wands in a way that forces players to buy another controller immediately.

A third optional controller that Nintendo needs at launch is a dedicated fighter pad like the Saturn controller-- wired, no rumble, no analog, and cheap.
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BlueSkies

Megas75

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Steam/NNID/Xbox Gamertag - Megas75

iKhan

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Yeah no. What was the last peripheral that had lasting success?

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

DefHalan

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Yeah no. What was the last peripheral that had lasting success?

Oculus Rift? But who knows for how much longer.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

6ch6ris6

i don't get it. the wiiUpad already is a normal controller. it has all the buttons and functions of the pro controller. the only difference is the lack of the screen. so the pro controller actually has a disadvantage.

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DefHalan

6ch6ris6 wrote:

i don't get it. the wiiUpad already is a normal controller. it has all the buttons and functions of the pro controller. the only difference is the lack of the screen. so the pro controller actually has a disadvantage.

People just like hating the GamePad, really the only bad thing about it is its battery life.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

iKhan

DefHalan wrote:

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Yeah no. What was the last peripheral that had lasting success?

Oculus Rift? But who knows for how much longer.

The Oculus rift is going to cost $350+. That might work for PC gaming, especially with mods aplenty, but on consoles, Morpheus is going to bomb at that price point

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

DefHalan

iKhan wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Yeah no. What was the last peripheral that had lasting success?

Oculus Rift? But who knows for how much longer.

The Oculus rift is going to cost $350+. That might work for PC gaming, especially with mods aplenty, but on consoles, Morpheus is going to bomb at that price point

I don't even think it is going to do so well on PC. I don't see current VR tech becoming very popular.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

Megas75

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Yeah no. What was the last peripheral that had lasting success?

You misquote me. When I say "Anything else should just be peripherals," I'm saying that if they want to try something fancy, they should just make a separate peripheral instead of forcing it on the console like the Wii Mote or the Wii U Gamepad

6ch6ris6 wrote:

i don't get it. the wiiUpad already is a normal controller. it has all the buttons and functions of the pro controller. the only difference is the lack of the screen. so the pro controller actually has a disadvantage.

Oh, I love the Gamepad personally, I love offscreen play and some of the games that DO utilize well are great, but it's obviously not for everyone, and lots of people, both consumers and devs, don't want to be forced to use it

Edited on by Megas75

Steam/NNID/Xbox Gamertag - Megas75

iKhan

Megas75 wrote:

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Yeah no. What was the last peripheral that had lasting success?

You misquote me. When I say "Anything else should just be peripherals," I'm saying that if they want to try something fancy, they should just make a separate peripheral instead of forcing it on the console like the Wii Mote or the Wii U Gamepad

I didn't misquote you. That's exactly what I thought you said. And again I'll reiterate, what was the last peripheral that had a lasting success?

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

crimsontadpoles

Bundling more than one controller will increase the costs, so I doubt Nintendo will want to do that. Plus, it will cause people to complain that they are paying for a controller that they don't want.

I prefer to just see a 'normal' controller, though I wouldn't mind a smaller version of the gamepad that isn't too large and heavy and feels like a normal controller.

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Megas75

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Yeah no. What was the last peripheral that had lasting success?

You misquote me. When I say "Anything else should just be peripherals," I'm saying that if they want to try something fancy, they should just make a separate peripheral instead of forcing it on the console like the Wii Mote or the Wii U Gamepad

I didn't misquote you. That's exactly what I thought you said. And again I'll reiterate, what was the last peripheral that had a lasting success?

If that's what you thought then you missed my entire point.

I don't care about the success or failure of whatever gimmicky peripheral they come up with. But most people just don't want gimmicks as they mandatory controller ala Wii Mote and Gamepad, people will definitely be a lot happier if they released the NX with a normal controller

Steam/NNID/Xbox Gamertag - Megas75

iKhan

Megas75 wrote:

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

iKhan wrote:

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

Yeah no. What was the last peripheral that had lasting success?

You misquote me. When I say "Anything else should just be peripherals," I'm saying that if they want to try something fancy, they should just make a separate peripheral instead of forcing it on the console like the Wii Mote or the Wii U Gamepad

I didn't misquote you. That's exactly what I thought you said. And again I'll reiterate, what was the last peripheral that had a lasting success?

If that's what you thought then you missed my entire point.

I don't care about the success or failure of whatever gimmicky peripheral they come up with. But most people just don't want gimmicks as they mandatory controller ala Wii Mote and Gamepad, people will definitely be a lot happier if they released the NX with a normal controller

But success and failure completely dictates whether something is worth releasing or not. If they aren't going to bundle a unique controller, they might as well not bother with it at all.

Releasing it as a peripheral doesn't make any business sense.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

iKhan

Tops wrote:

iKhan wrote:

But success and failure completely dictates whether something is worth releasing or not. If they aren't going to bundle a unique controller, they might as well not bother with it at all.

I'm in the "don't bother with it at all" camp. Recently I've been beginning to think that they need to return to basics and put out amazing games without the necessity of having them conform to an atypical hardware concept. It's difficult to admit, because I like the Gamepad and have gotten used to it, but there is no point in having another console with a unique controller that may or may not be utilised in novel or effective ways. People have been unimpressed with how the Gamepad has been used (if and when it is) so I don't think this is a corner Nintendo should back themselves into a second time.

I disagree with you, but I'm more okay with that take. At least it's a more openly one-sided, rather than being veiled under the guise of a compromise that doesn't actually work.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

Xenocity

Megas75 wrote:

Just make a single normal controller like the Wii U Pro controller as the standard controller, that's all what people want. Anything else should just be peripherals

No that's not true at all.
I bet you aren't old enough to remember the huge backlash over NES controller having a d-pad and two main buttons compared to joysticks and more buttons of the time.

Next Gen competition: everyone had a D-pad like interface and face buttons.

SNES was mocked for shoulder buttons a 4 face buttons in the form of a diamond (I lived it), while the competition focused on arcade lay outs without triggers.

Next Gen competition: had all the features of the SNES controller

N64 analog stick was very divisive in it's early years and launch because some developers loved it other hated it and though D-pad would win out because there was no need for something more.
Oh the Z-trigger was also believed to be DOA.

Next Gen competition: had dual analog, dual triggers, dual rumble.

GC was mocked for having an ergonomic controller with clickable shoulders.

Next Gen competition: Xbox 360 was designed with clickable shoulder buttons and ergonomics. PS3 only used the clickable shoulder buttons.

DS was touch screens
Next Gen competition: Vita and everyone used a touchscreen

Wii it was motion and pointer controls.
Next Gen competition: DS4 has pointer controls, motion controls, speaker on the controller and touch pad and few others. Steam Controller has motion controls too. Xbox One launched with Kinect in the box.

3DS was slider and 3D screens
Wii U was the position of the sticks, buttons and touch screen, microphone, off TV play, and headphone jack.
Next Gen competition: Different buttons, DS4 has touch pad, microphone and headphone jack (As does Steam controller too). Both Sony has off TV play with Vita providing you have a good enough connection. Microsoft is allowing you to stream your Xbox One games to your Windows 10 PC providing you have the connection.

If Nintendo didn't try and advance controls every gen, who know where gaming would currently be.

FYI the most popular accessory of all time is either:

1) 6 button Genesis controller
2) Xbox S controller
3) DS1 which was the final controller revision of PS1 released in 1998.

Oculus Rift require a high end rig and the VR unit itself. Most people are going to have to get new PCs to run OR.
With that said OR, Playstation VR, Vive and the rest are using motion controls to give you the best experience possible.
PlaystationVR requires the PS camera and Move controllers to use it.
Valve requires some form of motion controls to use their VR solutions.
Samsung does as well for Gear VR.

As for the console market, there is no ROOM FOR 3 identical systems with identical inputs and identical hardware and PCs.

Nintendo needs to find a way to get their new consoles out $250 or less (depending on pack in) with clear branding and marketing.
Handhelds need to be $150 or less with the ability to rapidly drop in price like DS and GBA.

Edited on by Xenocity

The NPD Group defines a core gamer... See Nintendo isn't part of the "hardcore"/core gaming group according to NPD data.
http://venturebeat.com/2014/05/13/34m-hardcore-gamers-play-an-average-of-22-hours-a-week-but-nintendo-isnt-core-enough-to-count/

Nintendo Network ID: Xenocity

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