Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

@Haru17 Maybe in your reality. But in mine it went from becoming stale to being a fresh series again with all kinds excitement and wonder I haven't felt in a game in a long time. Don't forget to have fun!

@Tsurii Monster Hunter, Skyrim, and Minecraft (among many other games especially this gen) all recycle and slightly alter content to support a large amount of playtime as opposed to a shorter, finite, and in all likelihood higher quality experience.

You guys make me wonder which 'reality' you are talking about, because as far as I can see this was a video game created by people to match a certain budget and direction. You can was poetic about a game if you choose, but in the end it's not the feelings you put onto it, but rather a piece of software. An artistic piece designed to inspire those illusions to be sure, but finite nonetheless.

For me, it's hard to excuse a game that gives me to the freedom to kill the same few enemies over and over wherever I want without some sort of meaningful story to go over it all. Without that, it's just an empty play space where all the cracks shine through and the game has to stand entirely on the merits of its gameplay — just the combat and physics system, and some pretty redundant puzzles, most of which take place in the
featureless Mario Sunshine dimension.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The game could really use some different types of enemies, at least a good handful of them. It's weird, I liked the game for what it is, but after 50 or 60 hours or so, I had pretty much seen it all. Spent another 20 hours "completing" the game, because that's what I always do with Zelda games, but those last 20 hours were the least interesting IMO. The concept is good on paper, but could've used a little more time to fully develop. 120 shrines in neat, but I got tired of the combat shrines pretty quickly, and 80% of the puzzle shrines ended before they even started. I missed the memorable boss fights and dungeons. I'm okay with the next Zelda being another open-world game, but I hope they take some notes from previous games (even Skyward Sword for dungeon design!). I hope I'm allowed to say all of this here I liked the game for what it was, it was great, but I also found it lacking in some areas.

Oh yeah, and bring back traditional fishing!

It is funny to hear ppl talk about what this game lacks and so easily forget what this game brings to the table. I guess for some it will take a few years to fully appreciate how much of a game changer this beautiful gem is.

Someone's "meaningful" story I could do without.

@Octane Forget traditional fishing. I now want a Windwaker : Breeze of the Sea. Where underwater diving is a thing and your Master Harpoon is you main weapon.

Starting to take things a bit more serious now. I've taken down my first four Lynels and first dozen guardians. Might go and grab the Master Sword before I take on the Divine Beasts.

I also managed to get up Ploymus mountain using fire arrows and a couple of stamina potions, before visiting Sidon and being given the Zora's Armour. Oops

That would be really a blessing

@shaneoh IMO, I wouldn't recommend grabbing the master sword before the divine beasts. It kinda makes link a bit OP so they become less difficult. That's your choice though! Have fun!

I can always grab the sword and choose not to use it. Dunno, I'll see how I feel about it tomorrow.

I don't think that's the case. There are Korok Seeds puzzles that are almost mandatory for an important aspect of the game. Shrines too. Monster camps, materials gathering, and other things. As i said: it's just up to you. You choose, you decide

@Pigeon Honestly, I don't think you have to worry about being bored when not following the main path. I'm not usually into Open-World games since I get tried of them really quickly but I found myself constantly immersed in BOTW. There's literally secrets everywhere on the map and the game is designed in a way so that you're always rewarded for your exploration in some form be it shrine, korok, korok, fauna, animals and valuable materials. You're also rewarded in the way you meet NPCs. I literally found a random town that I didn't know about 20 hours in and simply over a hill I hadn't thought to climb until then. And just the other day, I met an NPC I hadn't met before despite having over 200 hours. The landscape itself is also just really fun to explore. Areas are able to stand out from each other with subtle and some not so subtle differences, and it's through genius design that you can tell where the points of interest are. This game is just amazing in that you don't feel like you're doing the wrong thing for going off the main path. In other games, it was annoying when you feel like you lack specfic powers or weapons when going into a different area thats not on the main path, however in BOTW you constantly have all the tools you need, so you never feel like you're playing the game wrong for simply not follwoing the main quest. Sorry if that's worded horribly. That's just my opinion and I hope it helps you. Either way you play you'll have lots of fun and I hope you have an Amazing experience!

@Pigeon You can always mark mission objectives whenever you want if you want to stay focused on the main goal. There will be a beacon mark on your map to follow so that part is really not overwhelming and very linear if you so choose. The map makes this game so in-depth and for me is the best map in any game I've ever played. Even unlocking some of the towers to reveal the map parts is a puzzle as well.

@Pigeon
Hrm... now, I'm not a big open-world guy, but this game's world drew me in. And believe me, I can make criticisms of the game: the ending, I think, is terrible and a shame given how great the game itself is; horse controls are stiff and unintuitive, in my opinion; the nature of the Korok Seed grind frustrates a person like me who wants to complete the game but isn't willing to give up another 20 hours of my life finding 900 seeds - I find it a bit ridiculous.

But all that being said, to say "copy-pasted" forestry/mountains/etc. sounds wrong. We all know that @Haru17 has played the game quite extensively, but that comment is wonky. I've gotten all the shrines, all the side quests, and a good chunk of the seeds/upgrades/etc. Basically, I've plumbed this world pretty deeply, and I'm amazed at how no two places feel alike. You could stick me into any location on this map, and I could tell you exactly where I am without a map. That's because every little grove and grotto is unique, whether through landmarks or NPCs or monsters or rare spawns, or whatever. His comment just strikes me as odd.

@rallydefault The environments are unique, I just wish the game had the enemy variety to complement those different environments. I can't think of any other Zelda game where Lizalfos are as common as in this game!

There are Korok Seeds puzzles that are almost mandatory for an important aspect of the game.

Are ya sure tho? XD I really can't follow the player agency rhetoric that people have been all abuzz with post-Skyrim. Too many choices and people can't decide!

@rallydefault I did not say that they copied topography — although for that matter there are very obviously reused rock arch, ruins, and shrine assets like any open world game — but rather enemies, rune puzzles, and korok puzzles. I don't know what you mean about every crevasse feeling unique: I remember the same slight divot + treasure chest or shrine cave behind some 50 different destructible rock walls. This game is very much characterized by open, barren space. Spawning monsters, animals, and secret Koroks only add interest, not uniqueness.

Octane's critique is fair I feel. Many puzzle shrines feel like they end just as they're getting into their stride. Fewer combat shrines in place of longer puzzle shrines would be better (Blessing Shrines are a different question - a few shrines definitely offer up their blessings too easily, but I agree with the concept and many outside puzzkes are really well done). A bit more enemy variety would be a good thing, although as has been stated, the weapons themselves create a lot of variety within a given enemy type. A Lizalfos with Shock Arrows in an area pull of puddles acts a lot more like a armed Bokoblin than another Lizalfos with a Royal Sword and Shield. Yesterday I found myself up against a Guardian, a horse-backed Bokoblin with Shock Arrows, a Keese Swarm, and a Yiga Blademaster simultaneously, and not only did they all act differently alone, but the combination proved entirely new. I'd try and reflect the Guardian's beam, only to be hit by a shock arrow, drop my shield, get hit by the beam, collapse into a pile of burning grass which then set a lot of the Keese Swarm alight, run back to my shield, shoot the Bokoblin off its horse, etc. It was a more novel experience than just fighting 'one new enemy type' in isolation. Still, I wouldn't say no to more, and Zelda's got a pretty rich back-catalogue to draw from.

Meanwhile Haru's back to being eye-rollingly melodramatic and obtusely reductionistic again, seemingly dismissing anything without and cut scene or a boss fight as not "meaningful content". "Meaningful content" is that which the player finds meaning in - obviously - and is as vaguely subjective and hand-wavey a concept as you can come by. The term therefore doesn't pair well with the ostensibly 'objective' tone of the rest of the argument, which attempts to clinically unpick the game; laying out its components for critique. The "meaningful content" can vary from between zero to hundreds of hours depending on the player. Personally, many of the most meaningful moments I've discovered in this game have been about as far from the main story as you can get. The core idea at the game's heart is that of exploration, and TNGYM has at length discussed the systems in place that have made this a such compelling experience for so many people during their time with the game

If you go in with the stubbornly believing the only "meaningful" elements of the game are those that resemble previous Zeldas, you're of course going to arrive at the conclusion that Breath is a bit anaemic in comparison. Breath was specifically designed with the purpose of breaking Zelda conventions, so any argument that attempts to judge the game by the traditional Zelda elements it doesn't have is bound to bear fruit. But such arguments are either wilfully ignorant, or just incredibly narrow minded, as they overlook everything Breath of the Wild brings, declaring it "meaningless" on arrival.

Another point where I would agree with with Octane is that between Breath and 'almost every other 3D Zelda ever', there's a fair bit of space - at least in their approach to certain elements - and this space could be filled by future games. I'm glad Breath went fully on board with the idea of macro-scale, externally controllable, highly connected jumbo-puzzles for the Divine Beasts. Because I'd never played anything like them, and I thought they were exceedingly well crafted. But looking back, there's nothing illegitimate about the room-by-room, micro puzzle based dungeons of the old game, and I don't think they deserve to be written out of history. There's no reason why future games can't draw inspiration from both. There's no reason why future games can't draw from any of the past games

But I'm very glad that Breath of the Wild has unapologetically stuck to its own vision and done its own thing, even if that's hasn't suited the tastes of a few one-dimentional traditionalists with an edge-complex. Maybe future games will miraculously please everyone, and I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at a few old elements returning. But I don't think Breath can be rightly attacked for giving them a breather for a generation, especially in view of everything else its brought to the series (and arguably, video games as a medium).

@Haru17
Yes - obviously rocks and trees and such are copied. Little "divots," as you say, with chests at the bottom are copied. But yea, I don't know, man - you put me in any little grove of trees or whatever in the entire world, and I can tell you exactly where I am on the map, no questions asked. And there are certain rare spawns in the world that add uniqueness, I would argue. There are spots I will never forget mostly because of a cool creature I found there.

@Octane
Yes - huge let-down with enemy variety. I forgot to include that in my negatives list. That's a pretty big drawback, actually.

I'm not gonna type out another long response right not because both I'm tired and this thread is a bit exhausting. I'm sure you guys won't mind, because if I'm honestly one-dimensional you won't be reading this anyway. That's the kind of scentence that makes me wish I could type out the Twitch winkyface emoji. Anyway:

Stop stooping to ad hominem because I enjoyed a game less than you and dared talk about it.

I got to Eventide Island and it's definitely an interesting concept, I'd like that concept expanded in the DLC though I don't see that happening.

Looking at BotW so far, it has been a lot of fun and this month may actually end up being the most I've used my Wii U in a month since March 2016 due to BotW and MK8. I definitely think Nintendo's major Switch combo of BotW + MK8 Deluxe for pre-E3 fun was a good move.

@Haru17 i was referring to inventory slots since in a game like this you really need them, especially at the start of the game, but also later when you fight stronger enemies. You really need the Seeds, you have to farm some to be at least in a safer position...

And by the wat i did not play Skirim so no sentences based on that game...

Korok seeds can be important more so to each individual. I personally think 100 is more then enough to get where you need to be comfortable.