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Topic: Switch Pro, Upgraded Dock, or Switch Mini?

Posts 21 to 40 of 92

ThanosReXXX

I've noticed a couple of misconceptions and some assumptions are a bit too far-fetched.

First off, Tegra X2 is not an old chipset. Nvidia is in ongoing negotiations with the automotive industry to implement it into the built-in GPS/route planner systems and car automation of several brands of automobiles, and besides that, the X2 SoC is considerably more expensive than the X1, so chances of it being implemented in a newer version of the Switch are literally zero.

The X2 is, for now, only destined to be used in the automotive industry and nowhere else. By the time it will have dropped in price and will be available for a reasonable price, will probably be the same time that the Switch is nearing the end of its natural life cycle, which could be anywhere between 4 - 6 years.

And fantasizing about even newer chipsets than the X2 is useless as well, because that is even more unlikely to happen, unless Nvidia would somehow be willing to offer Nintendo a massively advantageous deal, and seeing as Nvidia is a business and not a philanthropic institution, I don't really see that happening either.

The closest thing to something actually possible could be a new Switch with more RAM, more internal storage, and an uncapped CPU, think along the lines of the old 3DS vs the new one. Currently, the CPU in the Switch runs on a lower capacity than the one in the Nvidia Shield, so if they remove that restriction, the Switch could run about 20 - 25% faster, and it would also be slightly more stable in frame rate and such.

Lastly, an upgraded dock would make no sense whatsoever, since it would create a huge discrepancy between docked and portable play, which would make developing for the system harder, or wouldn't matter one bit, since the developers might then simply stick to securing a decent portable experience, which would gain the docked experience next to nothing.

I just wanted to add my two cents, to explain to people to not needlessly get their hopes up for something that is very unlikely to happen. A Switch 2 might happen, or in Nintendo's case, it would probably be an entirely different system altogether, unless they've completely changed their strategy since merging their two departments.

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

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iLikeUrAttitude

@ThanosReXXX Where is it said that the Tegra x2 is destined to be used in the automative industry? From what I read it says that the Tegra x2 uses ARMv8 cores. Stuff made for mobile technologies.

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Kimyonaakuma

I can't find anything saying that the X2 is for automotive purposes but it doesn't seem to be used in many products so far.

I'm not denying the possibility that the X2 may be used for cars and things like that but why would it need that much power? It does use less power compared to similar CPUs but what car is going to need it?
Cars can have features like playing music, taking calls, navigation and many other things but I don't know if that requires a Tegra X1 or X2, which are more suited towards gaming and streaming. Seems more expensive than it's worth...

Kimyonaakuma

Agriculture

Peace-Boy wrote:

@Agriculture Super Nintendo Switch = Switch Pro mentioned in the OP.
Xavier? Interesting, don't remember hearing anything about a better chip from Nvidia.

I thought it had something to do with the Super Nintendo. Anyhow, a new chip called Xavier is scheduled to be released in 2018. It's 16nm. If the Switch 2 release 2020 or later, Nvidia could probably make a 10nm of that chip, if not smaller. That would be absolutely necessary, since not even Nvidia believe it can be used in a tablet (source: http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/44675-nvidia-xavier-alm...).

Agriculture

Agriculture

Kimyonaakuma wrote:

I can't find anything saying that the X2 is for automotive purposes but it doesn't seem to be used in many products so far.

I'm not denying the possibility that the X2 may be used for cars and things like that but why would it need that much power? It does use less power compared to similar CPUs but what car is going to need it?
Cars can have features like playing music, taking calls, navigation and many other things but I don't know if that requires a Tegra X1 or X2, which are more suited towards gaming and streaming. Seems more expensive than it's worth...

It's for self driving cars. Self driving cars need a powerful gpu. They have lots of cameras on the car and need to quickly evaluate lots of simple data, which a gpu is better at than a cpu. Cpus are better at evaluating complex data.

Agriculture

Agriculture

ThanosReXXX wrote:

I just wanted to add my two cents, to explain to people not to needlessly get their hopes up for something that is very unlikely to happen. A Switch 2 might happen, or in Nintendo's case, it would probably be an entirely different system altogether, unless they've completely changed their strategy since merging their two departments.

Very interesting post, but I suspect you look too much on how things are now and base your assumptions on that. 2-3 years is a very long time in computer hardware. The Switch has been very profitable for Nvidia and turned the Tegra line from something that wasn't profitable to something that is very profitable. It's very likely that Nvidia is currently working towards making higher performance chips a viable choice in a follow up to the Switch. In 2-3 years a lot of progress will have happened and what you said now is unlikely to still be true.

Agriculture

chriiiiiiiiiis

I have no idea about chips and things like that but I think 2018 (at least for the first half) won't see any changes to the current lineup of gaming consoles from Nintendo. Once the 3DS/2DS family is slowly fazed out and the Switch becomes their main console, it would make sense for Nintendo to then do what they have done with the 3DS family which would be release a budget console and then release a more advanced console later on that adds a bit more power I would guess.

The budget option makes more sense with Nintendo's history and audiences and while a completely portable and undetachable Switch takes away a lot of what makes the Switch itself, you have to remember that Nintendo took the 3D and clamshell design away from the first 2DS and relied on the library of games and the cheaper selling point to really that which seemed to work. Of course 3DS is a lot less loved than the qualities the Switch has marketed so it's not that simple but I think, anything really could be possible from a cheaper and more simple system.

chriiiiiiiiiis

Silly_G

I have no faith in Nintendo to take advantage of the improvements of the hardware of any future Switch iterations. Fire Emblem Fates, which was released after the release of the New 3DS line was not programmed to take advantage of its improved hardware (and is plagued with some embarrassing frame rate fluctuations throughout). The performance of Pokémon games, which also suffered from poor frame rates in battles, was not improved, and they could have used the added processing power to add 3D to the Gen VII overworld, but... again, nothing.

There are many other examples that aren't screaming out to me right now, but N3DS enhancements should have been a default requirement going forward, even if that entails a minor performace/loading boost.

Edited on by Silly_G

Silly_G

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ThanosReXXX

@Kimyonaakuma It's not a "possibility" that the Tegra X2 is used in automotive, it's a fact.
And @iLikeUrAttitude No offense meant, but I'm not particularly impressed by your searching skills if you honestly couldn't find anything. If you simply Google "Nvidia Tegra X2 automotive" there's already more than enough results to be found that'll tell you exactly what's going on with the Tegra X2 SoC.

The board that uses the Tegra X2 SoC's is called the Drive PX2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_PX-series#Drive_PX_2
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/08/22/parker-for-self-driv...
https://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/NVIDIA-Teases-Low-Power...

@Agriculture No, I base my assumptions on my own extensive knowledge in IT-related sales & marketing. I know a lot about hardware, and automotive and gaming just happen to be two personal interests of mine, which is why I was digging up everything I could find about the Tegra SoC, back when it was announced that it was going to be used in the NX/Switch, but when we didn't know yet whether it was going to be the X1 or a different/newer chipset.

At the time, Nvidia was present at several business fairs, mentioning the Parker CPU and the Tegra X2 SoC, but ONLY in relation to the automotive industry, and specifically autonomous vehicles. It is considerably well known for all who followed Nvidia back then.

EDIT:

P.S.

Thanks for the compliment. Forgot to mention that before this edit.

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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skywake

Switch Mini
Very possible although everything said about this at this point is just people speculating. I could easily see them going down this route. Though unlike some others I don't see any reason why such a SKU would need to drop the dock as an option. Maybe they integrate the controllers to keep the size small and don't have the dock in the box to cut the price. But even then it'd makes sense for them to sell dock and controller sets. There's no advantage for Nintendo to make a version of the Switch that can't dock.

Switch Pro
Again very possible. Also I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be a newer revision of Tegra that a future Switch could use. The X1 is not the first nor is it the last version of Tegra. All this talk in this thread of X2 being for cars kinda misses the point. NVidia is constantly releasing newer chips.

Switch Dock ++
Not going to happen in the way you expect. I can see them eventually doing a different version of the dock. Possibly when Nintendo wants to support newer revisions of HDMI or if a future Switch SKU won't fit into the current dock. But the dock itself won't be upgraded much. What you need to understand is that the dock is basically just a dongle. It doesn't really do anything, it basically just expands the Switch's IO. All of the processing is done on the Switch. Putting the current Switch into a theoretical 2020 Switch Dock Pro won't magically make your Switch better.

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StableInvadeel

Really for the switch mini they can just sell/include a different, smaller interface as an alternative to the dock.

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@skywake
Ugh.... Switch Mini ?
For the games with smaller texts like Lost Sphear, Portal Knights, etc will hurting my eyes. >_<

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StableInvadeel

It NEEDS to be the same size as a GBA micro.

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skywake

@Meowpheel
Yeah, the dock wouldn't be much of an issue for a "mini" SKU except for the fact that the current dock wouldn't work. Purely because it's build around the analogue sticks being a certain distance apart. Which is why I don't get why people are saying such a SKU would make a point of being "portable only". More portable sure but I don't see what benefit there'd be to kill the main feature of the Switch. At most it'd be optional.

@Anti-Matter
Well GBA and DS had 3" screens, the 3DS has a 3.5" screen, the PSP had a 4" screen and the 3DS XL and Vita have 5" screens. The Switch is at about 6". So I think there's room for a smaller SKU at least in theory. I don't see any reason why a Vita sized version of the Switch that drops the JoyCon in favour of integrated controllers wouldn't work. Especially if when docked it behaved exactly like the regular Switch including full controller compatibility.

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StableInvadeel

It would work really well. By making it a solid lump with permanent controllers, they would be saving a lot on the technology the actual joycon use. Like the HD rumble, inner L/R buttons, independent batteries, independent bluetooth units, the several sensors they each have, etc.

They could make it a more budget friendy option, and then sell you the dock alternative+extra controller for a nice profit (after all if you want to play on the TV you'd need to buy a regular set of joycon or a pro controller).

"Buy the Switch Mini! Always ready for on the go gaming, featuring a sturdier build! Or use the Switch Mini Dock Box® to play your games on the big screen!* Only $(a bit less than the regular switch price)!"

"*Sold separately. A Pro Controller or Joycon set is required to play on a TV."

Edited on by StableInvadeel

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Garage

I personally think that just a Switch Pro with a release in 2019 makes sense.

Switch Mini:
If it would copy the current Switch concept 1:1 but only with a smaller form factor than it would make things just more complicated for the consumers. Just think of the Joy-Cons because then you could easily buy a wrong Joy-Con for your device. Additionally a smaller Switch with the same performance as the current Switch wouldn't be cheaper at all. The other option would be a smaller Switch with a lower performance but this would just confuse developers (and perhaps also some consumers). While usually the systems increase their performance over time Nintendo now decreases the performance? So at the end of the day a Switch Mini has to many disadvantages.

Advanced Switch Dock:
This definitely would be a unique step forward but it just makes no sense at all. Just a simple question: Why doesn't the current Switch dock support external hard drives? Here the simple answer: It would conflict with the core philosophy and concept behind the system. One of the main features of the Switch is the immediate portability. You don't even have to pause or quit the game and you always have all the features available. It doesn't matter if you use the system at home via dock or on the go as a handheld, you always have the same experience. An advanced dock would break this rule completely.

"Switch Pro":
PCs, notebooks, tablets, smart phones and even smart watches get hardware updates every year. Gaming consoles will have a hard time if they won't be updated like every two years. To be honest we reached this state more or less already. The logical consequence is that we are going to see an improved iteration of the Switch in 2019. Now the big question is how Nintendo is going to improve the Switch over the years? The uniqueness of the Switch makes it possible for Nintendo to just update certain components of the Switch. How about new Joy-Cons with new interaction possibilities? How about a better power unit and screen? For sure, such options could confuse the consumers and so Nintendo has to decide wisely what they are going to do. However, Nintendo has this unique option in the console industry and they could therefore lower the upgrade price for current Switch gamers. I don't know how Nintendo should upgrade the Switch but I definitely think that a "Switch Pro" is the way to go. At the same time performance-wise the Switch wouldn't fall to far behind the home consoles from Sony and Microsoft — so the performance gap would always be more or less the same.

Edited on by Garage

Garage

Agriculture

ThanosReXXX wrote:

@Kimyonaakuma It's not a "possibility" that the Tegra X2 is used in automotive, it's a fact.
And @iLikeUrAttitude No offense meant, but I'm not particularly impressed by your searching skills if you honestly couldn't find anything. If you simply Google "Nvidia Tegra X2 automotive" there's already more than enough results to be found that'll tell you exactly what's going on with the Tegra X2 SoC.

The board that uses the Tegra X2 SoC's is called the Drive PX2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_PX-series#Drive_PX_2
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/08/22/parker-for-self-driv...
https://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/NVIDIA-Teases-Low-Power...

@Agriculture No, I base my assumptions on my own extensive knowledge in IT-related sales & marketing. I know a lot about hardware, and automotive and gaming just happen to be two personal interests of mine, which is why I was digging up everything I could find about the Tegra SoC, back when it was announced that it was going to be used in the NX/Switch, but when we didn't know yet whether it was going to be the X1 or a different/newer chipset.

At the time, Nvidia was present at several business fairs, mentioning the Parker CPU and the Tegra X2 SoC, but ONLY in relation to the automotive industry, and specifically autonomous vehicles. It is considerably well known for all who followed Nvidia back then.

EDIT:

P.S.

Thanks for the compliment. Forgot to mention that before this edit.

I understand what you're saying. All I meant was that Nvidia is probably thinking of ways to "fit" better chips in a future Switch. By "fit" I mean to get the price down to what is acceptable in a game console, and get it to not overheat. The Switch has been highly profitable for Nvidia and they probably want to continue that.

They probably also understand that a Switch 2 that has the same chip running at higher clock speed won't sell. If the Switch has a life cycle of 5 years, then it will be 2022 by the time the Switch 2 comes out. By that time, they will probably have some new product, which could be based on the Xavier chip.

Agriculture

Goatman

I'd love to see a switch pro XL. Something bigger for my decent sized adult hands, with more performance on the go. Along with a bigger hard drive, and like someone else mentioned, beef up the saving options. Playing BOTW on the t.v. then going to the docked version is just sad. I want the quality closer together, and I'd be willing to pay extra for that. I have had both the PS4 and XBOX S and the switch is so much more fun than either IMO, bumping up the specs just a little bit would make it blow both of those away and make it easier for 3rd party.

Goatman

skywake

Garage wrote:

Advanced Switch Dock:
This definitely would be a unique step forward but it just makes no sense at all. Just a simple question: Why doesn't the current Switch dock support external hard drives? Here the simple answer: It would conflict with the core philosophy and concept behind the system.

There's actually nothing stopping the current dock from supporting USB storage. Even if they wanted to add this as a feature it wouldn't be a hardware revision it'd be a firmware upgrade. The only thing the current dock is lacking that could be improved is a higher spec HDMI out. It's currently HDMI 1.4 which doesn't support the HDR of HDMI 2.0 or the variable refresh rate of HDMI 2.1. Both of which could be major improvements for gaming. Same deal with the higher resolutions those newer HDMI revisions support.

Anyways, the dock itself doesn't really warrant an upgrade. It wouldn't really give us anything that isn't already possible on the Switch. Well, at least not with the current Switch SKU.

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