Forums

Topic: Switch almost entirely bought by dudes over the age of 20.

Posts 21 to 40 of 135

skywake

@Dezzy
Well with the two major games ATM being Zelda and Mario Kart? You're probably right. But when Animal Crossing comes out all bets are off.

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

NEStalgia

@ACK Well! You've certainly painted a cheery picture of reality

I don't think your analysis deviates too far from the past though either. It's no secret that the video game market has always skewed extremely heavily to a male demographic. I've never really understood why, to be honest, but in general it just seems like the whole "focused time sink" category of entertainment/hobby, and even occupation tends to attract a more male demographic. I presume the general observed nature that females tend to be much more social than males is most of it. In person interaction with other people is more important and video games that are either solitary or abstraction of social interaction are less appealing. Or at least that's what I've always assumed until the invention of Facebook and Twitter

All that being said, I believe Nintendo has fairly consistently boasted just about 50/50 M/F demographics where their competitors are heavily male skewed. So just because Switch launch is mostly male, I imagine over the course of the console it will settle into Nintendo norms. New tech items and the hardest core Nintendo fans actively tracking shipment dates are most likely going to be majority male, including household purchases.

Your description of kids being thrown a tablet by clueless mothers though, isn't really so different from the past. Whether it's toys, NES games, or modern tablet games the key point was always giving the kids whatever means are available to get them to sit down and shut up for long periods of time It's just now they can take it with them and is "free" and they don't need to be glued to the living room. But I don't think the parental awareness of WHAT is happening or why has changed. Just the cost (and quality) involved.

NEStalgia

Dezzy

NEStalgia wrote:

I presume the general observed nature that females tend to be much more social than males is most of it. In person interaction with other people is more important and video games that are either solitary or abstraction of social interaction are less appealing. Or at least that's what I've always assumed until the invention of Facebook and Twitter

That is very likely and does perfectly match the demographics you see in different game genres. Women are more attracted to the games with higher amounts of social interaction (either real or simulated). So the general explanation would be that console gaming in general has not been built around that. It's why the male/female ratio for Pokemon Go was nearly 50/50 whereas Mario Run was 80/20. There are far more games in the traditional console market like Mario Run than like Pokemon Go. (which is a fairly good comparison because you have a complete gender-neutral 'install base' and both games are free to try)

For anyone who's interested in psychology, that's also the most common explanation for why autism is a lot more common among boys than girls.
http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/children-with-autism-have-...

Edited on by Dezzy

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

NEStalgia

@Dezzy The only clinker to that whole operating theory that I've never been able to figure out has been that, in general, girls are more likely to be bookworms (for entertainment) or study (for school) focused than boys. Which runs entirely opposite to this demography in gaming. You would think that the "bookworm" trait would tie into the "solitary adventure game" trait as well.

NEStalgia

Ryu_Niiyama

@NEStalgia The gaming community is often very toxic to females as well. It has gotten way better but it is still almost a masochistic hobby to have unless you straight up game alone. I refuse to voice chat game online for that reason. I've been through both situations below and I have a few friends that gave up gaming (they liked MMOs) over it.

http://www.dorkly.com/post/1965/dueling-analogs-why-there-are...
http://www.dorkly.com/post/78565/the-problem-with-fake-gamer-...

Also in general comics and games are escapist fodder and often deemed too fantastical to be a worthy investment of one's time. Also while I'm not sure it is in this thread but your comment about heterosexual romance being in action movies and comics to attract the female demographic makes no sense to me. Most of the time that is where you get the most nonsensical male fantasy version of romance: "I'm cool, and awesome so beautiful women should fall all over themselves to take off their clothes for me". So I disagree. The type of "romance" that shows up in action movies is for men. Unless straight women have really, really low standards that I don't know about. I try to assume that at least 70 percent of the population of a developed first world country has decent relationship standards...although I'll freely admit I have little interest in heterosexual couplings beside what media forces upon me; and that is just because I'm stuck with it.

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

burger_king

i think the idea of nintendo being a kiddie brand needs to die a slow death as it is clearly obvious all those people that grew up with nintendo still love the brand plus they are getting loads of new players that never got to experience the previous consoles right now

BurgerRob is the name ^_^

Dezzy

@NEStalgia

Well I didn't mean it's so much about the physical fact that you're sitting alone with a computer. I more meant about the actual virtual experience. As in, games like Zelda and Mario have you out as a lone character exploring a dangerous world. Whereas games that women prefer like the Sims, Animal Crossing, Professor Layton, tend to be more about a group of characters and their social interactions. So Pokemon Go was a bad example really.
So most books would fit that socialising trend, as you're imagining a huge number of characters interacting in most books. Very few books are like Robinson Crusoe. LOTS of games are.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

NEStalgia

The gaming community is often very toxic to females as well. It has gotten way better but it is still almost a masochistic hobby to have unless you straight up game alone. I refuse to voice chat game online for that reason.

There, I fixed it for you.

Seriously I refuse voice chat entirely. I was in a group group with some folks who did use VC (without me) on occasion. One of the members was this tough talking, aloof, alpha male, cool, smooth, top tier competitive player. One of the other people I'd PM with was telling me how he did a VC match with him and thought during the entire match that there was some girl in the room he was unaware of. Turns out it was tough guy. He had to have been like twelve. After that we all kind of felt a little pedo dealing with him.

Those comics are priceless, and so true, though I do think the "toxicity to girl gamers" is more a symptom than a cause. Because it's generally a gathering of male players, there's just likely to be a certain mentality there. I suppose no different than football games, hot rod garages, and other male focused hobbies since forever. It just stands out to me more in gaming because while those other activities were kind of steeped in traditional male activities (athletic prowess with sports, machinery and heavy lifting with hot rodding), gaming being much newer and not tied to those traditional social elements just seems more puzzling as to how it's worked out that way. I mean yeah now we see COD and Battlefield and nobody thinks for a moment "yes, this will appeal to a female demographic!", but if we look back at the origins on SNES where it was colored blobs....it makes me wonder how it tilted so heavily to a male demographic that COD even became a thing. Anecdotally back in the NES/SNES era I know of girls that were younger than me that played video games...getting to that last rental copy of [insert game here] was open warfare Something changed somewhere after that.

As far as romance in action movies and comics, the point is that the studios introduce it in an attempt to attract (or at least hold the interest of (if they were dragged to see it)) the female demographic. Whether it works or not I don't know, but their focus group testing told them decades ago that "romance" was an element the female demographic rated in the top 4 from 1-10 of elements of a film that would interest them so gosh darnit they're going to add romance to the Terminator and Batman and double their money!

"Unless straight women have really, really low standards that I don't know about. I try to assume that at least 70 percent of the population of a developed first world country has decent relationship standards"

Hi, welcome to Earth. Is this the part where I take you to our leader?

Edited on by NEStalgia

NEStalgia

PlanetaryNebulae

My brother and I split the cost of a Switch. To counter the arguments that women are social, while men are loners: my brother would rather play Smash and other games with his friends than Breath of the Wild by himself. While I would rather play Breath of the Wild than play games with other people. How much you like to socialize has to do with personality, not gender.

PlanetaryNebulae

NEStalgia

@Dezzy Oh that's a good point! Especially the Zelda context.....a lone expedition in the wilderness fits that example perfectly. "The sims, animal crossing, etc." might be a little cliche by now, but I do get the point, you're right. I wonder how RPGs and in particular JRPGs fare in terms of demographics. On one hand it's all numbers and stats based, arguably a male appeal. On the other hand it's "social", it's about the group traveling together, meeting people in towns, and developing characters (more like the book example.)

I always cringe when the answer to women being less involved in gaming comes down to "we need more girl games like the Sims!", since it's a cliche as much as film needing more romantic comedies set in the 19th century!

NEStalgia

FGPackers

@Ryu_Niiyama if i can, but only if i can, in everything there are person of very different types. There are person that take things in a way and other person in the exact opposite. It's just to find right people to join and have fun with. What i'm trying to say is that i would like to have fun with guys from here, you too obviously, with actual voice chat to joke and have nice and simple fun. It can be through MK, ARMS or Splatoon 2 when we will have them. It does not to have to be in a single way. As i said there are different types of person, in everything. It makes me kind of sad hearing things like that in 2017. It's bad. Really. And i don't like it at all, would be glad to prove the opposite Same thing for everyone else that feels the same way. Damn this is a passion that we have in common, i don't like when we can't enjoy it because of stupid .......... i don't wanna say it!

FGPackers

Nintendo Network ID: FGPackers

Tyranexx

PlanetaryNebulae wrote:

My brother and I split the cost of a Switch. To counter the arguments that women are social, while men are loners: my brother would rather play Smash and other games with his friends than Breath of the Wild by himself. While I would rather play Breath of the Wild than play games with other people. How much you like to socialize has to do with personality, not gender.

I agree that it's more of a personality thing; I know people of both genders who are social butterflies, though admittedly more of them are female.

I, for one, am an introvert. I prefer to play single player games, though I wouldn't mind playing with someone locally on occasion...if I knew anyone to play with. XD I mostly stick to Nintendo games as most of the franchises that I like can be found on Nintendo systems, though I like plenty of franchises that are meant for more of a male demographic (Assassin's Creed, Metroid, etc.).

I've never really used anything like TeamSpeak or Skype when playing games as I'm quite self-conscious of my voice on recording devices or phones; I have minor telephobia, actually, especially when it comes to remote strangers. Plus, I don't like being sworn at unless I can tell it's good-natured, which is very hard for me to detect when I can't analyze facial expressions.

That said, I haven't had the best social experiences with just text alone, either. I recently fired up my WoW account again after nearly seven years and have found that the game has drastically changed. While the new LFG tool is a godsend for a busy person like me, I've been grouped with a few moronic and/or elitist lemons. And don't even get me started on heirlooms.

Currently playing: Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey, Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana (Switch)

"Love your neighbor as yourself." Mark 12:31

iphys

Come to think of it, when I went to pick up my pre-order it was all guys in line. Women tend to be more cautious, so probably less likely to rush in and take the chance on buying a new system in case it flops. They'll be buying it eventually though.

http://backloggery.com/iphys

3DS Friend Code: 1504-5686-7557 | Nintendo Network ID: iphys_eh

Ryu_Niiyama

Wall of text inbound:

NEStalgia wrote:

The gaming community is often very toxic to females as well. It has gotten way better but it is still almost a masochistic hobby to have unless you straight up game alone. I refuse to voice chat game online for that reason.

There, I fixed it for you.

No. Don't do that. I no way said that gaming wasn't bad for males however, your "fix" merely shuts down discussion on the issue I highlighted. If I were a more timid woman I would feel that I don't have a right to speak on what I've seen and what other women have gone through in this hobby because of what we are. However I'm not so, I said what I said. I should be able to name the problem and not have my viewpoint immediately thrown out because I didn't use inclusive enough language. The next time you are hit on when it is unwanted (and despite you saying so), or cat called, or threatened with rape or death or you have someone demand that you send them pics of yourself naked or you are called names because of the reproductive organs you possess then I will concede that the toxicity to females in gaming is not biological sex specific.

I don't accept the "well it is a gathering of males" rebuttal either. Boys will be boys isn't a carte blanche excuse to be a jerk (or a creep or sexist or violent). For the males that don't indulge in such activities they should also not implicitly condone of those that do by their unwillingness to reprimand other males to keep themselves from being targets. The parts of male culture that is dismissive and predatory of females that is dismissive and hostile to any type of "weakness" (so that males that don't fit the machismo standard) can only be changed by males. We women can shout about it until the end of the world and eventually we hit a wall called "not all men". Males should demand better of themselves and other males; not to be PC police but because humans are supposedly rational creatures and we should choose to be better than base instinct.

In general I try not to "go there" here, a conditioned response in part to extreme responses and to dismissive ones like the one you gave. Which is telling in itself that I have to edit myself so much (and before anyone else reading this goes there, no I would not be calling for the end of all men or some such nonsense that had been made up to make feminism into a "scary thing" tm). I think that you are a pretty level headed guy so I am going to assume that you didn't intend it that way (if you did, shame on you) and I am going to leave it at that. However, please don't think that because we get along on this site that I will allow my words to be modified to make them more inclusive and to hide from the issue I originally stated; it is a straw man tactic. Acknowledging that gaming culture is toxic to women doesn't dismiss any toxicity to males. Don't move goal posts, you are more rational than that. If you don't agree with me fine, state that but don't implicitly dismiss what I said. Also yes I saw the winking smiley but you know as well as I do that people often use "it was a joke" to allow a back pedal when they say something offensive/aggressive/dismissive. Plus tone is hard to read in text.

Anyway, moving on to the rest of your comments. As far as the 12 year old, children are in a hurry to be what they think is adult. I can only speak to my experience but I think boys suffer from this mentality more than girls. I was never in a hurry to grow up...I had dreams of what I would do of course, but I never wanted to be more than what I am. I think my mentality is skewed however as my parents had me when they were in their mid and late thirties so they were more level headed (mostly...) so that influenced myself, so this is entirely anecdotal. I honestly feel that because gaming starts as a hobby from child hood and keeps a steady influx of kids plus the tribe mentality that seems to infuse the culture (in part because it has become more isolated even as it has become more social through voice chat and other internet communication...such as this forum) plus the fact that gaming is escapism means that there is less of a reason to act with decorum. For younger kids part of that is bad parenting (as you know I worked at gamestop in several different positions...kids steamroll over their parents), for older gamers that is imo poor personality combined with poor interpersonal skills and the false courage the anonymity of the internet brings. Most "trolls" don't act like that in real life...meaning somewhere they are being false. Sadly I feel it is the "real life persona" and not the "internet jerk" instead. "Fan" wars took a fun hobby and made it into a hostile, elitist cesspool. You have to like certain game genres, you have to buy certain systems, if you are certain sex you have games that you are supposed to like...and if you like those games you aren't really a gamer anyway, or the opposite as well. Take the monopoly reveal...half that thread was full of people yelling at others for wanting to play monopoly. Why? It is a game like anything else...and hasbro has made a MINT off of it. For all the games I play do you know what I am hoping for the most? A good shogi game and perhaps a port of Pure Chess (and VF6 but that is wishful thinking and self castigation). Yet some folks would laugh me right off the site because of that... and it makes no sense. If i didn't love games so much and the fun I have with friends locally I'd say screw it and move on, this is the only thing that I do that has this much conflict...and yes that includes all my martial arts training. Tossing someone to the ground or avoiding a sword is less stressful than dealing with fans in gaming.

Voice chat is a strange beast in general. I don't like mainly because people curse a lot in casual settings and while I totally admit I can curse like a sailor when angry I feel that if you resort to it in your basic communication that it is a sign of laziness (and idiocy quite frankly) and that you can't articulate your thoughts. I ramble enough as is I don't need to pick through f bombs to figure out what someone is saying. However again my upbringing (and my love of language) influences this...I have more in common with a person my parents age than with people my age. At the same time when done right it is a great way to communicate and make stronger friendships with people you may never see face to face...just like this forum for instance. However I've had enough change in conversations the second someone hears my voice to be disgusted with the whole thing. Also the games I do play online don't lend well to it anyway. What am I going to talk about while playing a fighting game?

I totally accept and acknowledge that focus groups attempting to capture the heterosexual female's gaze (and money) started the insertion of heterosexual romance in action oriented media such as movies and comics (I wasn't asserting that wasn't the source, apologies if I was unclear), but I don't feel it is manufactured that way now. Like I said the romances presented have a very male gaze and interest slant to them. Granted, I readily acknowledge I'm a poor judge since I don't know what heterosexual women are looking for in romance, but I feel like it can't be what we are seeing in movies an comics are worst than soap operas. However, like you said "welcome to earth"; I totally feel like an alien half the time anyway. I wonder if I'll find myself in a Kaguya-hime situation? Wake up and a bunch of women are at my door and they are like "hey sorry we accidentally left you here, come on let's go home". I don't personally think that I am a very empathetic woman and it is hard for me to "get" people (or to form emotional bonds with them)...I'm blunt (polite but still blunt as you likely noted above) and I try to be rational over emotional in general but at the same time I'm very, very loyal to those I do form bonds with. That may be why I like forums so much. People kind of blend together for me IRL (a sea of grey if you will) but it is easier for me to notice and discern others online. Don't get me wrong, I can interact just fine with others but...there is an emotional disconnect. INTJ personality. Take that as you will. This will likely require an edit and a boatload of commas but I have to get to work.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

Ryu_Niiyama

@FGPackers It would be nice if we could all come together for love of a shared hobby, however life doesn't work like that. If you read the article comments we have people dedicated to negativity like a religion. Also if you in any way show that you love this hobby that you joined a website in hopes of finding like minded people, you are branded a shill or what have you. I am not saying that voice chat shouldn't be allowed, as it does allow people that would never be able to game face to face to meet and enjoy gaming however, I for one will likely sit it out unless there is a friends only option. I refuse to waste my time being yelled at and verbally abused by someone I can't even see. I'll take my lumps in the dojo only, thanks. Messaging is bad enough. I had a person here go to my profile and find my PSN account and then leave me a three page rant of profanity. Never spoke to the person ever. You want to know what prompted it? I said I was going to buy a game. That was it. I didn't say anything negative, only that I would buy a game. Ugh I'm too old for this.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

FGPackers

Ryu_Niiyama wrote:

I refuse to waste my time being yelled at and verbally abused by someone I can't even see

As i previously said i don't do this things when i play because i hare that too. What i was trying to say is that not everyone does that. That is generalize...

FGPackers

Nintendo Network ID: FGPackers

Ryu_Niiyama

@FGPackers I'm not saying that you do or would. That is why I mentioned a friends only option. I wouldn't mind playing with people I got along with online, but in general? Nope, nope, nope. It isn't that everyone does something that makes people wary or withdraw, it is that ENOUGH people do it to make it a poor time investment (and emotional one). So again I no way said that you were that type of gamer.

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

Ralizah

@Ryu_Niiyama I had something similar happen on GameFAQs recently. I said I didn't care for a certain game, so a guy on there decided to sent a bunch of abusive-sounding messages and death threats on PSN. I reached out to him, asked him why he was behaving in such a manner, and he eventually opened up and told me that this behavior was his way of releasing pent-up frustration from a terrible family life. I got him to acknowledge that his strategy of abusing strangers online to relieve personal frustration was destructive and unproductive. He wanted me to add him as a friend by the end, so I did, because it made him happy and cost me nothing.

More often than not, reaching out to trolls has proven to be an effective strategy. For me, at least. Of course, some people can't be reasoned with. I remember talking with some wildly bigoted transphobe on youtube for days before I realized the person was so filled with hate and prejudice that no amount of discussion would ever sway him. Even if it fails, though, I think it's still important to engage with harmful viewpoints online, if only for the sake of impressionable onlookers who might be swayed by them.

But yeah, I agree, the pervasive, obsessive, hyperbolic negativity that seems to spread along online gaming communities like a toxic wildfire is annoying. It has been especially bad with regard to the Switch. Thankfully, the broader gaming community's enthusiastic reception of the console has shut down a lot of that negativity. It's still around, but not quite as loud.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

This topic has been archived, no further posts can be added.