So Shigeru Miyamoto has announced a brand new Super Mario game coming out in a few years time. I posted this on NX cause its very likely that it'll be on the NX.
Looks like I didn't need to bump the franchises you want to see on NX thread after all. Oh well.
Anyway, the younger devs seem to be giving input on this game, and they've probably grown up with games like World, 64, and maybe even Sunshine, so I think the new formula will be inspired by those games, especially 64 and Sunshine whose gameplay elements have had little to no representation in recent games. In other words, I think the new formula could be the hybrid formula that 3D Land/3D World tried to be but never really achieved. How they would probably go about doing that would be the following:
1. Level design that's straightforward, yet explorable. Mario gameplay needs to have clear direction and a clear goal to remain accessible, but there's a sizeable faction of the fanbase that wants to wander off and explore, so allowing them to stray from the main path would satisfy the need for more exploration without compromising the game's accessibility.
2. Merge the classic flagpole and the star collection into one progression system. 3D Land and 3D World had both of these requirements in the same game, but in execution they conflicted with each other and the benefits of both systems cancelled each other out. The flagpole gives levels a straightforward goal which helps keep it accessible, and the star collection system gives the player a sense of freedom in how they progress and creates incentive for exploration. The way they included both in 3D Land and 3D World was poor execution, you didn't have the straightforward progression of a linear platformer because you needed to find stars to unlock certain levels, and you didn't have the freedom of a collectathon because you were required to reach one level's flagpole to unlock the next level and had to progress through the game one after the other (with the occasional instance where you could choose between one of two levels). So how do you fix this? Well it's actually pretty simple, just have the goal reward you with a star as well (maybe a bigger power star or a Grand Star that's worth 5 regular Power Stars, to convey to players that this is the level's main goal), then they can simply have a star requirement at certain key areas in the game (like say, before a Fort or Castle level) and let the player choose from any level up to that point. Then you can either fulfill the star requirement by reaching the goal in each level as you would in a linear platformer, or collect the individual stars like a collectathon, or anything in between.
3. Adopt BotW's idea of having multiple solutions to the same problem. BotW's approach to puzzle solving can translate into the platforming genre quite nicely, especially if Mario has access to the variety of moves he had in some of the collectathon games. You could decide on different approaches to getting past an obstacle depending on your playstyle. Maybe you could climb on top of a platform and long jump your way across. Maybe there's somewhere you can triple jump to get over. Maybe you have a powerup or level gimmick that can help you. The level design can really encourage you to get creative with your abilities. Really, this is nothing new, we saw this in some of the collectathons (especially Sunshine), but it'd be great to bring it back for this game.
Oh, and they should take the next step up from 3D World and transition the map screens into full on hub areas that you can run and jump in and explore for stars and secret levels.
If they can pull that off this could be a solid direction for the series.
Looks like I didn't need to bump the franchises you want to see on NX thread after all. Oh well.
Anyway, the younger devs seem to be giving input on this game, and they've probably grown up with games like World, 64, and maybe even Sunshine, so I think the new formula will be inspired by those games, especially 64 and Sunshine whose gameplay elements have had little to no representation in recent games. In other words, I think the new formula could be the hybrid formula that 3D Land/3D World tried to be but never really achieved. How they would probably go about doing that would be the following:
1. Level design that's straightforward, yet explorable. Mario gameplay needs to have clear direction and a clear goal to remain accessible, but there's a sizeable faction of the fanbase that wants to wander off and explore, so allowing them to stray from the main path would satisfy the need for more exploration without compromising the game's accessibility.
2. Merge the classic flagpole and the star collection into one progression system. 3D Land and 3D World had both of these requirements in the same game, but in execution they conflicted with each other and the benefits of both systems cancelled each other out. The flagpole gives levels a straightforward goal which helps keep it accessible, and the star collection system gives the player a sense of freedom in how they progress and creates incentive for exploration. The way they included both in 3D Land and 3D World was poor execution, you didn't have the straightforward progression of a linear platformer because you needed to find stars to unlock certain levels, and you didn't have the freedom of a collectathon because you were required to reach one level's flagpole to unlock the next level and had to progress through the game one after the other (with the occasional instance where you could choose between one of two levels). So how do you fix this? Well it's actually pretty simple, just have the goal reward you with a star as well (maybe a bigger power star or a Grand Star that's worth 5 regular Power Stars, to convey to players that this is the level's main goal), then they can simply have a star requirement at certain key areas in the game (like say, before a Fort or Castle level) and let the player choose from any level up to that point. Then you can either fulfill the star requirement by reaching the goal in each level as you would in a linear platformer, or collect the individual stars like a collectathon, or anything in between.
3. Adopt BotW's idea of having multiple solutions to the same problem. BotW's approach to puzzle solving can translate into the platforming genre quite nicely, especially if Mario has access to the variety of moves he had in some of the collectathon games. You could decide on different approaches to getting past an obstacle depending on your playstyle. Maybe you could climb on top of a platform and long jump your way across. Maybe there's somewhere you can triple jump to get over. Maybe you have a powerup or level gimmick that can help you. The level design can really encourage you to get creative with your abilities. Really, this is nothing new, we saw this in some of the collectathons (especially Sunshine), but it'd be great to bring it back for this game.
Oh, and they should take the next step up from 3D World and transition the map screens into full on hub areas that you can run and jump in and explore for stars and secret levels.
If they can pull that off this could be a solid direction for the series.
1. Majority of the Super Mario games have a straightforward goal and have very rare exploration points. I think you want more of the exploration factor like how its done in New Super Mario Bros (the first one) Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 because really, that's the only flaw that the recent platform games have (though 3D Land did that to some degree).
2. Your suggesting is plain broken here as they did do a proper thing like you said in the 2D games where the Stars/Star Medals only unlocks bonus levels/collections. I agree that the way its done atleast in 3D Land is not well thought out but since its so easy to get Star Medals majority of the times, its invalid.
3. Incorporating puzzle elements on a Super Mario game can be problematic since these games are very straightforward. I agree that having explorable parts that are optional can have puzzle elements bit not when you have the main one which is a straightforward one.
Even then, its still done even in the recent ones.
But I do agree that it will be nice to make Mario more acrobatic like a couple of tricks that can help him besides the usual ones like how he can make a higher jump by doing a handstand in the first two Mario Vs DK series.
@Socar I don't think a sequel (e.g. Galaxy 3) is what he meant by something new. I got the impression he means an entirely new Mario series.
But I still expect another Galaxy game, due to Galaxy getting mentioned a while back by one of the Nintendo bods discussing which teams were working on what.
You guys had me at blood and semen.
What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?
1. Majority of the Super Mario games have a straightforward goal and have very rare exploration points. I think you want more of the exploration factor like how its done in New Super Mario Bros (the first one) Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 because really, that's the only flaw that the recent platform games have (though 3D Land did that to some degree).
"Very rare" being the key phrase here. The linear games are mainly linear with a few opportunities to wander off. I'm thinking something a little more constant. Something more like the Sunshine levels like Bianco Hills or Ricco Harbor, 1-1 and 3-1 in 3D Land, or 1-1 in 3D World.
2. Your suggesting is plain broken here as they did do a proper thing like you said in the 2D games where the Stars/Star Medals only unlocks bonus levels/collections. I agree that the way its done atleast in 3D Land is not well thought out but since its so easy to get Star Medals majority of the times, its invalid.
It's not like the collectathons though, because in general you still have to complete 1-1 to unlock 1-2, you still have to complete 1-2 to unlock 1-3, etc. Sometimes you do have a choice between two paths, but in general you're still following a path. Whereas in the collectathons you have several levels to choose from at once and you can do what you want in any level to progress. The system I'm proposing merges both, so you have a suggested path through the game but you can wander off and explore to still progress. It wouldn't be broken.
3. Incorporating puzzle elements on a Super Mario game can be problematic since these games are very straightforward. I agree that having explorable parts that are optional can have puzzle elements bit not when you have the main one which is a straightforward one.
Even then, its still done even in the recent ones.
But I do agree that it will be nice to make Mario more acrobatic like a couple of tricks that can help him besides the usual ones like how he can make a higher jump by doing a handstand in the first two Mario Vs DK series.
Actually I am saying more acrobatic elements. I want Mario's platforming to have the same variety that BotW's puzzle solving has, not that I want it to have BotW's puzzle solving. Like I said, this was something you could do already in Sunshine. There were several levels where if you got creative with the Hover Nozzle or any of Mario's acrobatic moves, you could find different ways to get to your objective. That's what I want to see in this game.
I think it is going to be a 3D world that lets you create and place various platforms in the world (a la MarioMaker) so that you can then you to jump your way through to progress. Maybe you can only place 3 platforms at a time and use the available terrain of the land, and then you can use your array of jumps to progress to the next seemingly impassable section. I don't know but something like that. It doesn't need to be Mario BotW!!! Puzzley-platforming in a Mario 64 open level / world.
I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.
I think it is going to be a 3D world that lets you create and place various platforms in the world (a la MarioMaker) so that you can then you to jump your way through to progress. Maybe you can only place 3 platforms at a time and use the available terrain of the land, and then you can use your array of jumps to progress to the next seemingly impassable section. I don't know but something like that. It doesn't need to be Mario BotW!!! Puzzley-platforming in a Mario 64 open level / world.
They sort of did that in NSMBU, though, that's not exactly an overhaul of series conventions.
I think we'll be seeing another "inspired by western games" game especially seeing all the hype surrounding Breath of the Wild which is inspired by games like Skyrim.
@Grumblevolcano You can go further back than that and follow Skyrims inspiration and that games and that games. I think you will finally end on Zelda OoT.
I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.
I think we'll be seeing another "inspired by western games" game especially seeing all the hype surrounding Breath of the Wild which is inspired by games like Skyrim.
How can a platformer be inspired by western games? Platforming is practically nonexistent in the western market.
@Grumblevolcano You do realize that Mario isn't the plumber known for the stuff that Zelda did right?
Mario is the king of the platformer games out there and he dominates it easily. He's the sole reason why platform games are getting out there so don't even think that Mario will be like Skyrim because that is not a platform game.
Damn.....now I'm upset a bit after saying that because what if it does change the main formula of Mario?
@Socar I'm not saying that the next Mario will be like Skyrim, rather that as Zelda has changed this drastically there's nothing stopping the main formula of Mario potentially changing to have some kind of western influence too.
@Grumblevolcano The only thing that Mario got inspired from games was Joust. Everything else though, Mario inspired all other western devs to make platform games the way Mario did.
There is no way in hell that Nintendo will incorporate Mario to be something like Crash or Spyro because those games are ripped right out of Mario 64 with the only difference being the tweaking of some game elements which are nowhere groundbreaking as what the Super Mario series does.
RPGs does have a difference because there is a significant difference between them.
Actually, what makes sense to me is Nintendo have just shown off a physics engine. So the next Mario game will introduce physics in a way Miyamoto finds fun. There.
I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.
Actually, what makes sense to me is Nintendo have just shown off a physics engine. So the next Mario game will introduce physics in a way Miyamoto finds fun. There.
Yeah, I do think the next Mario game will have more realistic physics, that could make for some interesting gimmicks.
@Bolt_Strike Yep. I am all for Nintendo to bring a new generation of physics based games using their IP and allowing each game to be different because of their mechanics. Link cannot triple jump, long jump and pick up kooky items so already Mario will be able to interact differently to an RPG. Metroid could be first person, more sci fi environments etc. So ye, I hope we don't see Metroid Breath of the Wind, followed by Animal Crossing Breath of the Wind, but I hope games can keep their identity within a new generation of Nintendo's engine. Exciting times.
I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.
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