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Topic: Splatoon 2

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NinjaAceTrainer

I think they'll add 'Shifty Station' to Turf War only, and whenever Shifty Station gets chosen, it's a random Shiftty Station from a Splatfest. Maybe they'll do a poll to see which Shifty Stations are most popular, maybe they'll only put it on at the weekend or something like that.

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shadow-wolf

So after playing Splatoon 2 extensively, I think I've come to the realization that for me personally, I much prefer Splatoon 1 to 2. There's a lot of issues with Splatoon 2 that really impede my enjoyment of it compared to 1:

  • Horrible netcode: I'm pretty sure more people have disconnected during matches in a month of playing Splatoon 2 than in the almost 3 years I've played Splatoon 1. This might also be due to people playing in handheld mode and by extension in places with unstable internet, but it's still a negative for 2.
  • The Specials: I feel the specials of 1 are much more fun to use than the specials of 2. Plus, I think Tenta Missiles and Splashdown are quite unfair. Splashdown is pretty hard to counter unless you can roll away, and tenta missiles shouldn't take as little time as it does to deploy (not to mention the blast radius should be much smaller — you really should be splatted only if you're directly on the blast spot, not near it).
  • The OP weapons: In Splatoon 2, Bloblobber and Clash Blaster are incredibly OP weapons. Anyone on a team with one of them can easily tip the scales in favor of their team in any of the Ranked modes. There weren't any weapons this OP in Splatoon 1. The Dualies in 2 are also annoying but they're not as bad as the Bloblobber and Clash Blaster in making matches unfair.
  • The subs: In Splatoon 2, A lot of subs became useless or new unfair subs were introduced. Autobombs really should take more ink — you shouldn't be able to throw more than one autobomb before you have to refill ink. Ink mines and Disrupter (which became Toxic Mist in Splatoon 2) also got nerfed and became less useful.
  • The music: Splatoon 1's Splattack theme and the other theme it has during matches are so good, far better than anything Splatoon 2 has. Why can't Splatoon 2 keep the music from Splatoon 1 and add more tracks, instead of replacing the tracks from Splatoon 1?
  • The intro: Pearl and Marina take WAY too long to introduce stages. I honestly think they take twice as much time as Callie and Marie did in Splatoon 1. Part of it is due to more info to announce (like League Battle and Salmon Run), but there are a lot more things they could fix with the intro in Splatoon 2. I feel Pearl and Marina take longer to talk and can't be skipped through as easily as Callie and Marie, and Pearl and Marina's ending animation takes much longer to finish (since Marina has to push the desk out of the way and Pearl has to push the chair out of the way, and both have very long animations for their catchphrase). On the other hand, Callie and Marie quickly went to their catchphrase and have a short animation for their catchphrase. You don't have the option to skip the intro or even fast forward through the intro which is quite ridiculous. I facepalm every time Pearl and Marina ironically make fun of Sheldon for talking so much when the same exact issue is not only present but far greater of a nuisance with Pearl and Marina's intro.

There are a few things I like about 2 compared to 1, like better graphics and visuals, more modes, and the ability to change your weapon and clothing between matches. But there are a sizable number of downgrades in 2 IMHO that keep me from enjoying it quite the same way as 1.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: @toiletduck @Zyrac @FaeKnight @ReaderRagfish @EvilLucario @Eric258 @Grumblevolcano @Dogorilla @Kimyonaakuma @countzero @NinjaAceTrainer @Maxz @Ryzaerian @1UP_MARIO @Octane — I apologize in advance for the mass tagging, I've probably overdone it but I'm curious about what you guys (since you recently commented in the Splatoon 2 forum) think since this has been bugging me for a while now.

Of course anyone is welcome to reply, not just the people I've tagged!

Edited on by shadow-wolf

shadow-wolf

-Green-

Points 2, 3 and 4 are basically wrong for the most part, except for maybe the first part of point 2, which is preferance.

Tenta Missiles and Splashdown are widely considered the two worst Specials in the game in terms of the competitive scene. Bloblobber is an alright weapon which is annoying at most, and Clash Blaster is just a bad main weapon all around. You're better off using any other blaster.

Your points on the subs in point 4 are all basically wrong as well. Autobombs were garbo before they were altered and now are useable. Mines are a thousand times better now than in Splatoon and Toxic Mist is one of the best subs in the game. In all honesty, the only subs that are pretty bad in general are Beakons (which are still better than in Splatoon) and arguably Point Sensor (which I think takes too much ink).

Edited on by -Green-

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Zyrac

Agreed with Green. Y'know, Tentas have been buffed multiple times and they're still not very good. I think overall this game's specials are better balanced than those of the original; I mean, in my mind there will never be anything more aggravating to deal with than the Kraken.

Bloblobber and Clash can carry bad players and are annoying, but aren't really an issue balance-wise. Autobombs are typically a minor nuisance; just get close to make them detonate and then get away from the tiny blast radius.

I think I like this game's soundtrack better overall, personally. And I've always thought complaints about Nintendo's online are overblown, although I can't compare too well to the first game since it's been a real long time since I played it.

I don't mind the news too much either... but I'll grant you that one, actually. It annoys enough people that it probably ought to be skippable.

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Kimyonaakuma

I won't have played Splatoon 2 as much as other people here and I don't play ranked modes very often (I'm just not very competitive ), but I guess I'll share some opinions seeming as I played the first game quite often. I'll try and keep my paragraphs quite short but I'll admit that I usually write lots!

As for the online multiplayer, I don't usually have problems once I'm in a match, but I have had very long waits just for a Turf War. However I think these problems have disappeared since the Online Service went live...except one game of Splat Zones where everyone vanished and I was stuck in Arowana Mall...

I'll agree that Splatoon 1 had more "fun" specials, I think the Inkstrike was useful as a last minute effort for Turf War and the Kraken was just OP...but also really fun to use. Splatoon 2 seems to be more balanced with specials but to be honest I only use a few of them - mainly the Inkstorm and Tenta Missiles. I have never had much success with the Stingray or the Bubble Blower, they just aren't much fun despite the cool concepts. The other ones are okay but not amazing, but I think they might be suited to other people's playstyles instead of mine.

I only find the Bloblobber annoying in cramped spaces but I think most of the other weapons are decently balanced, it just takes me a while to adjust to some of the uncommon weapon choices. As for Subs I mainly use Curling and Autobombs, they work in multiple situations unlike many of the others in my opinion. Toxic Mist, Point Sensors and Ink Mines seem like a waste of ink to me. But again I think some of them don't match with how I play the game, but I've seen people make use of some of these weapon combinations so at least people have options and variety.

I like Splatoon 2's music more, at first I didn't but I enjoy listening to 2's songs over and over again compared to the original. Except those songs with the violins! They give me RAGE!!
I think the Splatfest music is an upgrade, Splatoon 1 has one song (which is great and I still listen to), but the sequel has 3 or 4 songs which I really appreciate. I prefer Off the Hook and the Squid Sister's music to most of other songs...I think the songs mixed with the night stages is a great mix. I at least know that I like all of those songs while there are more of the standard songs which don't excite me or I find "meh" after 20 matches.

I like Pearl and Marina more as characters but they have too much to announce and not enough ways to say the same things. I had learned most of their lines off by heart in the first month or two and I'm not even a hardcore player...
However I like how Pearl are Marina are different but still friends, Callie and Marie feel like two halves of one person to me which isn't as interesting. Callie and Marie of course have more of a backstory compared to Off the Hook, but I'm sure we'll see more from them in the future. Octo Expansion had some nice glimpses at their past but I really wanted more!


I'd say that 2 is better, it has a lot of improvements. But I think the original was a little rough around the ages and unbalanced but that made it charming. 2 is more polished but a lot of the weapons aren't fun (to me) or are quite similar. But objectively I believe that 2 is better, I think my memories of the original game are better than it actually is because it's innovation covered up flaws which I didn't realise until the sequel.

Kimyonaakuma

NinjaAceTrainer

@shadow-wolf I haven't actually played Splatoon 1, so my viewpoint probably isn't the best comparison, but from what I know:
Horrible Netcode: I couldn't comment on Splatoon 1, but I would assume that since matchmaking is now regional priority, connection would be better. Disconnects are too frequent in Turf War, but in Ranked they are much less common. What bothers me more is the lag on enemy movement, where I see them falling off a platform but in actuality they are moving towards me, as I see a moment later, which really throws me off.
The Specials: As stated above, Tenta Missiles and Splashdown are not very good. Splashdown is easily countered/avoided unless you superjump with it, and that's something very situational. Tenta Missiles are quite pathetic honestly. All you need to do to avoid them is move around, and then you can take a second to re-ink the turf they painted and build your own special up. They serve only to pile pressure on foes who are in fights, which requires good team co-ordination. No specials seem particularly overpowered, and they can all be used effectively. The specials in Splatoon 1 seem overpowered to me, Killer Wail and Inkstrike completely shut off areas of the map while Inkzooka fires high speed lethal projectiles, Echolocater gives you the jump on all enemies and shuts down sneak attacks and Kraken can rush and ambush foes with ease. How am I supposed to counter that as easily as I can just swim away from the specials you mentioned?
The OP Weapons: For starters, the Clash Blaster is no trouble at all once you know how to counter it. I ran some tests, and its DPS is not very good compared to other weapons of similar range, the the N-Zap. I used to hate how the Clash Blaster users barely had to aim to kill me, but then I realised that the fact that I can aim back at them and deal more damage makes them non-threatening. My golden rule for all blasters is to rush them. The Bloblobber is extremely prone to just moving to the side to avoid it, and you shouldn't really have issues with it unless you're in the same range ballpark, in which case strafing/swimming and shooting is the way to go. As for Dualies, most Dualies users I see dodge roll too much, making their movement predictable and therefore easy to take down later in the game, when it matters the most.
The Subs: Autobombs were okay before they got buffed, and a buff they did need. If anyone throws 2 at you, you'll know that they'll have very little ink left, so it's generally a bad idea. Avoid them by detonating them, then moving away. Ink mines I would say are quite good actually, as they take on more of an area control role than a passive killing tool. It's quite fun to place a third Ink mine to detonate another too, and can be used actively in that way. Toxic Mist is alsi very good not for killing, but for area control. No one's going to want to swim through mist to take turf/the objective, effectively making any area a choke point.
The Music: Having listened to both, I prefer Splatoon 2's soundtrack, but that is subjective.
The Intro: I'm not particularly bothered by the intro being long, and I like the personality it adds to the game. I'm probably one of the few people who thinks that though, as I'm not too bothered to sit through a 30 second long notice. Splatoon 1 had you sit through it every time the stages changed, so I would think that would be worse honestly.
Overall, I would say at launch, Splatoon 2 was worse than 1, but it isn't really fair to compare a 50% finished game to a 100% finished game. Now, I would say that 2 has more than eclipsed its older brother in content, improvements, etc., and the fact that they can keep building on Splatoon with continual great updates is amazing.

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Dogorilla

It's been about a year and a half since I've played Splatoon 1 so I don't remember every detail of it, but I definitely prefer Splatoon 2. My thoughts on @shadow-wolf 's points:

  • Netcode: Yeah this is the worst thing about S2 imo. Disconnects happen way too often and ruin the match when they do. I wish they'd use dedicated servers instead of P2P.
  • Specials: I don't find Tenta Missiles or Splashdown too difficult to dodge. I kind of miss the Kraken though, that was fun.
  • Weapons: To be honest I don't really know how unbalanced those weapons are. Bloblobber is maybe a little overpowered, but I haven't noticed it or the Clash Blaster single-handedly dominating a battle or anything.
  • Subs: I agree a few of the non-damaging subs are a little too situational to be particularly useful, but I don't find Autobombs too bad.
  • Music: I don't really remember the first game's music too well but I really like the second game's music. I suppose it would have been better if they'd added some of S1's music to S2 as you suggested though.
  • Intro: I quite like seeing Pearl and Marina's dialogue, but yeah it's baffling that there's no skip or fast-forward button. It's a very minor nitpick though.

Splatoon 2 is not perfect but thanks to the new weapons and stages, Clam Blitz, Salmon Run, the Octo Expansion, the improved graphics, the new characters, and the various quality of life improvements, it's easily better than the (also excellent) first game in my opinion.

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Maxz

I’m in agreement with a lot of the above comments - even the more nuanced or finicky points. Splatoon 1 had a more of primary coloured charm in that it was trying out all these whacky new ideas and somehow pulling them off, but Splatoon 2 is the better game is for just about every reason mentioned above.

I will say though, Splatoon 2 loses when it comes to mini games (no Squid Jump) and also overworld (Inkopolis feels more confined in the Spat2’s little alleyway).

I think Splat 1 was more charming and generally bolder (for actually inventing the world and concept), but Splatoon 2 is the better Splatoon game and game in general.

Splatoon 2 can be improved, but so wouldn’t use Splatoon 1 as the template for how to do to. In fact, in my eyes, Splatoon 2 is an exceptional template for how to improve Splatoon 1.

Edited on by Maxz

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-Green-

I think after a year of playing, my favorite weapons in this game are:

Goo tuber: I like its design and the charge gimmick is cool. I just wish it could do a bit more. As is, it struggles hard because it only slightly out ranges common weapons and is outraged hard by its better brethren. I wish it charged up while holding a charge while in Squid form, that would make it so much better.

Gloogas: I really like the design of these weapons and how they feel. Their dodge roll has weight to them and they feel heavy. Main complain is the RNG and lack of precision. It’s just really slow and suffers from huge falloff.

Dynamo: I always liked Dynamo. Using it is fun and it’s design is cool. The problem is just the main weapon is not particularly good at anything that isn’t done better than other weapons. It needs to generally paint better at least. I just really like positioning myself to fling huge amounts of ink. The problem is that Explosher does that much better and isn’t a huge sitting target like dynamo is.

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shadow-wolf

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I'll try to address each person individually.

@-Green- Would you be able to tell me why Tenta Missiles and Splashdown are considered the two worst specials competitively? I've realized that I haven't had much time to get used to all the weapons/subs/specials so maybe I need to learn more regarding Tenta Missiles and Splashdown so I could evade them better. Also in a similar vein, would you be able to tell me why Ink Mines and Toxic Mist are better?

@Zyrac Would you be able to tell me why you think Tenta Missiles aren't great? I've realized that I haven't had much time to get used to all the weapons/subs/specials so maybe I need to learn more regarding Tenta Missiles so I could avoid them better. And honestly even if the intro was not skippable, having an option to speed up dialogue like they give with Sheldon would go a long way towards making the intro more bearable.

@Kimyonaakuma Yeah I think you're right, perhaps the innovation of Splatoon 1 covered some of its flaws. And I agree with you, I still don't really know how to use Sting Ray and Bubble Blower effectively though I know other players are able to. And I agree with Pearl and Marina. They often do say the exact same things. Especially for Salmon Run announcements, I'm almost certain they cycle through one of the same 3 exchanges each time ... which gets annoying after a while. And as you said, Bloblobber does a bit too well in close quarters, it'd be nice if they could limit how far the bubbles go or how many times they can bounce.

@NinjaAceTrainer You make some good points, and thanks for the advice! How do you suggest you can counter Splashdowns? Every time I encounter one of them, it's quite difficult for me to escape before I get hit. And I've experienced the lag you've suggested, though I encounter disconnects more frequently, even in Ranked. At least Splatoon 2 recognizes this and does not change your Rank because of it, but it's still annoying. Regarding the Clash Blaster and Dualies, I'll try your advice when I encounter them next time! And the subs advice is helpful too. Although the intro doesn't repeat once your in the game unlike Splatoon 1, honestly after one sitting I often switch to another game so I end up seeing the intro often anyway. What annoys me is that the dialogue and animations are a lot longer than in Splatoon 1, so it takes much more time. But as you said it adds personality to the game, and it doesn't really take that much time in the long run.

@Dogorilla I agree about the net code, I wish Nintendo chose to use dedicated servers for Splatoon 2 as you suggested. They need to start using them for their more popular games like Smash and Splatoon, so that the online experience is better and is actually worth the cost of the online membership. How would you suggest to avoid Splashdowns? And yes I agree, the extra modes in Splatoon 2 like Salmon Run and Clam Blitz do make it better than Splatoon 1 content-wise.

@Maxz Yeah what you said makes sense. Perhaps I just need to take some time to get adjusted some more. Splatoon 1 was my favorite game on the Wii U and instantly made the series my favorite multiplayer series out of any series, so perhaps I just need to give myself some time to get adjusted to the changes in 2.

@-Green- Goo Tuber is fine but what do you mean by its charging gimmick? Do you mean its ability to hold a charge while swimming? That's very useful but as you said I was disappointed you couldn't charge up while swimming. The Glooga Dualies were nice at first but they don't do much damage unless you roll, which made them a bit difficult for me to use. Dynamo Rollers are very powerful ... if you are able to fling the ink before getting splatted. In my experience they're very slow, so it's very easy to splat a Dynamo Roller user before they actually manage to fling ink.

shadow-wolf

FaeKnight

Uhm, if the game's netcode isn't up to snuff a dedicated server wouldn't improve connectivity. And more games then people likely realize use peer to peer for actual multiplayer matches. No, what should have been saved on a dedicated server is multiplayer progression. I can understand why it's not. But it still should have been.

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-Green-

@shadow-wolf Basically Tenta Missiles lack a notable impact like other specials do. They aren't as effective as simply activating any other Special and put you at a notable disadvantage to use. Splashdown is just super vulnerable due to people being able to consistently shoot it down.

Ink Mine in Splatoon 1 was bad because while it could splat a person, it essentially never did as it was too slow. In Splatoon 2 you can also place two, they no longer have a time limit, you can self-detonate them and they mark your target. It's much better overall.

Toxic Mist is a good sub because it helps close of an area. Hitting an opponent with it puts them at a big disadvantage and can help secure splats. Arguably not as good as disruptor was but still pretty good overall as it does its job very well.

The gootuber gimmick I'm referring to is how it's basically a charge holding charger entirely. They could do more with that part about it.

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Dogorilla

@shadow-wolf I usually use Dualies so it's not too difficult to roll out of the way. If you're using a different weapon there's enough time to swim out of the way once you see the Splashdown coming as long as you're not surrounded by enemy ink. So it's mainly a case of making sure you're always covering enough turf to give you an escape route if necessary. Also, there have been a few times when I've used Splashdown but been splatted before I hit the ground, so you may be able to splat the person using it if you start shooting them as soon as they activate the special. Don't quote me on that though, I haven't tried it.

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NinjaAceTrainer

@shadow-wolf There are 2 ways to not die to a Splashdown near you. The first is to move away, swimming is usually fast enough unless you are turning around inside the Splashdown circle. Splashdown does deal massive (albeit not lethal) damage outside the circle too, which can splat you if you've already taken damage. Alternatively, you can splat the player doing Splashdown before they land. If you want to practice this, go for weapons with spread damage, such as brushes or blasters. Do note that while the enemy is airborne ahd stationary they are vulnerable, however once they start to fall they will become invincible. As for superjump Splahdowns, the only thing you can do is move away, which is difficult due to their speed. If you keep getting splatted by superjump Splashdowns, try to be aware of any reckless superjump points from the enemy team. A tip for avoiding Splashdowns, even a tiny bit of cover will protect you from the damage, even if you're inside the circle. Any small corner or terrain difference will completely block the damage. Being familiar with stages so you can seek out small bits of cover in a pinch can definitely help.

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Zyrac

@shadow-wolf (enjoy the mention spam) Dodging Tenta Missiles is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Wait for the whistling sound - no need to panic as soon as you're targeted - and then just keep moving until the missiles stop. You don't necessarily need to be swimming at full speed the entire time either. Just be careful not to cross paths with teammates lest you be hit by missiles targeting them.

The instant death hitbox isn't actually that big either; a near miss only does half your health. If you still want to make them a little less threatening you can try using the Bomb Defense Up ability; even one sub slot of that will save you from being two-hit-killed (a one-hit will always be a one-hit, though).

Tentas aren't useless, mind you - they can do some damage if timed well alongside other attacks - but like Green says they just kinda aren't as good as everything else. Even the seemingly tame Ink Storm provides more reliable area control and is safer to use.

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SpaceMonkey86

Noob question here: How do people get those messages above their head in the hub area?

SpaceMonkey86

FaeKnight

I believe those are posted to Twitter via the mailbox. My question is "how did people get so dang good at using the clunky drawing tool?!"

FaeKnight

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shadow-wolf

@-Green- @Dogorilla @NinjaAceTrainer @Zyrac Thank you all for the advice! I'll use that when I encounter the Tenta Missiles or Splashdowns in the future, or if I use ink mines, toxic mist, or the Goo Tuber.

@FaeKnight Oh OK that makes sense. And yes you're right in that it's absolutely inexcusable that Nintendo doesn't save player rank and level on a server. If they did that (like virtually everyone else does with their online games) then we'd have cloud saves for Splatoon 2.

shadow-wolf

SpaceMonkey86

@FaeKnight I don't get it. An actual twitter? Or an ingame twitter that is pretending to be twitter but only in-game?

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