Topic: Sonic Forces

No, Funky Kong's a different series altogether.

This turned out to pretty much be what I expected, Mediocre. Guess I'll skip.

Don't know why they tried to hype of a story with little substance or spent years building a new engine from scratch if they weren't going to bother hiring a proper team of experienced level designers. If it was not rushed, it was definitely mismanaged, which is arguably even worse.

You know, considering the meh quality of this game, I‘m glad SEGA actually only asks for 40 bucks. EA and Activision would‘ve kicked this stinker out at 60, a Season Pass and Loot Boxes! Can‘t wait to make a horror show of a Sonic OC this weekend!

I'm not sure how I feel about this game. It's technically, on the surface, not actually a very good game. And yet it's not a bad game. Which can be said of many Sonic games, but this one is different. I think its biggest flaw is even on hard mode, the default for some reason, the game is pretty much snack food as gaming. It plays itself. Technically the levels move too fast. This game really DOES have Blast Processing! It's the original Sonic advertising come to life! Arguably it's worse for the wear because of it, but it somehow WORKS as snack food in gaming.

Most importantly though it's not a rehash of Sonic as its been. it does try something new, and on some level I think it succeeds. The transition from 3D to 2D and back seems to work nicely and keeps the game "flowing". I haven't played enough levels to really get a feel, but while it's so far not a great game, it does some thing that makes me think "it's kind of a good direction for Sonic right now" and may actually be a good Sonic game.

I finished the main game and Episode Shadow. The game's ok and I'm glad I bought it but it will kind of be buried by the amazing games like Fire Emblem Warriors. The story was good, the character creator was wonderful and there were no issues with the 720p/30fps but a fair amount of the stages have the Halo 5 campaign problem.

Currently the Nintendo Switch Version metascore is a 55. It doesn't sound so bad until you consider its the fourth lowest scored retail release yet only above Has Been Heroes, RBI Baseball, and Touhou Kabuto V. It might rise up the rankings with more reviews and when games like Monster Jam, Battle Crashers and Troll and I finally get scores but right now its one of the lowest of the lows. Hell even 1,2 Switch got a higher score of a 58

@Grumblevolcano " a fair amount of the stages have the Halo 5 campaign problem."

What's the Halo 5 campaign problem? (Skipped out on X1 so I haven't seen Halo 5)

@NEStalgia Basically some missions are pointless. In Halo 5 there's 3 missions which are just walking around talking to people. For Sonic Forces, some of the levels should've just been extended cutscenes.

While not as much as Mania, this game does at least learn a little bit that verticality has meaning in this game and the 2D portions do provide that "multiple tiers" satisfaction. Unlike Mania and the classics though, it's still "Sonic as a Race" not "Sonic as a pinball machine" that defines classic Sonic, and the vertical labyrinth was so much of that.

@Grumblevolcano Ahh, got it.

I'm a bit iffy about review scores for Sonic relative to other games, tbh. I always get the feeling that Sonic is held to different standards by many reviewers.

@Buizel It's like, people seem to think Sonic's rivalry with Mario in the 16-bit era was because his games were just as good as the plumber's. They really weren't if you ask me. He just had a head start in 16-bit (not to say those games didn't have merits, they were certainly more impressive on technical level and Sonic 3 & Knuckles was maybe the closest match to Super Mario World).

It also doesn't help that gamers in general tend to take ''once bitten, twice shy'' to unhealthy extremes. Make one bad game, and it takes three perfect ones before people even THINK of moving on. Until then
anything and everything will be heavily scrutinized, to the point of ignoring any potential fun that could be had.

@meleebrawler I agree on both points, somewhat.

Firstly on classic Sonic being overrated - I'll maybe give you that. The 16-bit Sonic games are excellent (arguably some of the best games of their time), but I also agree that they weren't as good as Super Mario World, for instance. I think people also tend to romanticise the traditional Sonic gameplay and as a result Sonic Mania, which is a great game but overall nothing too surprising, was very overrated imo.

Secondly, on modern Sonic being heavily scrutinised - definitely. It seems that ever since Sonic games being bad became the general consensus, every flaw in every Sonic game is being used as evidence that Sonic Team have lost the plot, and that Sonic will never be good again.

To be honest, I'm quite doubtful we'll ever see another non-genesis-style Sonic game which is universally praised.

@Snaplocket This would apply if you saw me saying this with most games that get mixed or bad reviews, or if I was a hardcore fan of Sonic, but this is my sincere opinion on the matter. Personally, I just think that in some cases, reviewers don't have the ... courage to say "Hey I had fun with this game, it's not the best but it's a decent 7 or 8" and simply prefer to repeat the same things other big sites said. Also, the game wasn't even out and everyone was atlking about how hard it was gonna flop because reasons, so that alone lets you know the mentality most of reviewers adopted about the game before they actually had a complete copy to review.

"Like or not, when a game gets "meh" reviews its a sign that it did something wrong. "

Pretty much every game does something wrong for someone, which could be really subjective since there are aspects that some people see as a plus and others as a downside, like the sailing on Wind Waker. The score and review will only be justified for the reviewer and people that share his/ her opinion.

Believe me, I have talked many times in favor of reviewers, (specially on this site) but when it comes to Sonic I prefer to reserve my jugement until I played the game. Regardless of the general opinion, it seems that on Sonic taste I have the unpopular opinion so reviews aren't the best option for me.

"Don't start acting like reviewers have mega bias towards Sonic when they've praised the heck out of Mania, Colors, Rush, and Generations."

I think you are generalizing way too much, to begin with, because I agree with you. As I said I normally back up a reviewer's opinion, even if I don't agree with it. I just think that when it comes to Sonic most reviweers seem more severe. That being said, some reviewers praise the games, not every one of them (Sonicmania does have praise from everyone it seems) and the same applies with a reviewer that think those games aren't as good. His opinion counts too, regardless if it's unpopular.

@Buizel In the case of Mania, there is also the attractive notion of ''underdog'' fans making a ''better'' game (ignoring how like, 70% of the game assets were made for them) than the big, stupid evil money-grubbing corporation. We kind of saw the same thing with AM2R vs. Samus Returns.

The talent behind Mania is very considerable, but their specific achievements behind that game are somewhat overblown (I was not a fan of most of Mania's boss battles, most being tedious, boring and/or frustrating. And as a small aside, their Puyo Puyo programming is severely lacking).

I didn't put any words in your mouth and honestly whatever bothered you... I don't care. I'll keep on replying what I think. Honestly I can't even take your replies seriously if you think that having bad games justifies being harsher with a franchise. To be as objective as you can with a game when you are gonna review it, you have to put aside those kind of things. It's beyond stupid to punish a new entry because the game before it was bad, but hey, whatever works for you. Reviews always have subjective aspects, but a good one tries to be as objective as possible.

"The Windwaker comparison is completely unfair, the issue with sailing is only a nitpick and depending on who you ask, is not a problem at all"

I just told you that it's a matter of opinion, unless you have a gigantic ego, you are aware that what could be "nitpicking for you" could be a huge let down to others right? Also, depending on who you ask, it's a huge problem! It simple, this is coming from someone who enjoys that game and definitely enjoys sailing, but I won't force my opinion as the right one and qualify opinions that disagree with me as "less" by asuring it's just nitpicking. Also, it was just a simple example dude. Again, a less popular opinion isn't less valuable.

"When I said, "something wrong" I was clearly implying it to be one or several major issues."
So? That's how I understood it, and it doesn't make a difference with what I just told you.

Look at it this way, I won't change my mind about not caring for reviewer's opinions on Sonic games. I explained to you why tend to feel different about said games, and it doesn't affect you in any way posible. I don't care if you think it's justified or anything, I'm not trying to make you agree with me about it, I simply explained myself.

"Don't put words in my mouth."
Follow your own advice dude, I mean, you were the one replying as if I said that reviews were worthless, then you accused me of something you did. Unlike you, I simply replied to you in a polite way explaining why it isn't the case, but it seems my personal opinion about Sonic games affects you too much to let it go.

So my review of the game will need to wait. Turns out EU PS4 players with a physical copy cant access Episode Shadow...because of course.

But..in one word? Underwhelming. It has good ideas. It's not terrible. Its nothing special.

And I swear, you can clearly see where stuff has been cut out, underdeveloped, started and then dropped. I want to know what the hell happened in development, because something clearly did.

@Snaplocket "What bothered me was that you believed I was being negative for the sake of it when in reality I was showing concern over the fact that people were blatantly ignoring reviews no matter how accurate they were to the product solely because they were negative didn't seem like a smart move."

Just to clarify, I never believed anything like you being negative for the sake of it and I do believe there's a reason why in your personal case, you agree with said opinions. However, I don't think that every bad or mixed review about every sonic 3D game is accurate. Of course there's negative reception I agree with, like the one for Sonic Boom.

" Your response to my argument makes it clear you completely missed the point as to why I responded. I got the impression you assumed that no reviews by the press of Sonic games are fair, despite the fact that most of the games released for 3 generations bar special exceptions like Rush and Mania were flat out not that good. "

Based on what? Not agreeing with you? I didn't miss your point, but considering that you got the wrong impression by assuming that I thought that no review about Sonic games was good your point wasn't even significant to me because I didn't said anything close to what you assumed. I simply think that games that have been quite criticized recently like Adventure 2 aren't as bad as people are making out to be. The same applies to the popular opinion of Sonic The Hedgehog 2 being considered the best 2D Sonic game and everything that a Sonic game should be, since I don't feel that way. Same with " Sonic should stay 2D, it doesn't work in 3D and all the 2D games are better than the 3D games"( Note that I'm saying those are popular beliefs, not that I'm saying you said any of this). Besides you clearly stated that you would agree if Sonic games are reviewed in a harsher way, which pretty much means supporting a reviewer's bias against the games and is pretty much the opposite from a fair, honest review.

There are reviews I do agree with, I simply tend to disagree with a lot of them when it comes to Sonic so I prefer to reserve my judgement until I play the game. Reviews serve to inform and prevent from bad purchases, but in order to work, you need to find reviewers that hold similar opinions to yours about games and in this case, I tend to disagree with many, that's all.

" Disagree with me, then fine, but don't just dismiss my argument as unwanted hate. I am a Sonic fan. I loved the Genesis classics, the Rush games, Mania, Sonic Advance, even Adventure 1, 2, and Heroes."

But that's the thing and the problem in the first place. You assumed I did that (I honestly don't know why) just as you assumed I don't care about reviews at all. This one is even more rare because I never even thought you were hating since you praised Mania and Generations in the previous replies and I never claimed or mentioned anything similar to it.

@BLP_Software yeah I agree, it feels, to me, like the game was entirely scrapped and restarted from the drawing board, possibly by a completely other team. There's one thread of ideas, and then a totally different thread of ideas, and they two are never blended.

May simply be a case of development heck that after it stalled someone else was brought in to reboot it with limited time so they kept what they could and this is the result.

Your description is great though. It isn't bad and there are definite bright points, but there's nothing to actually remember moments after you put it down either.

Alrighty then, done with the game as well. Aside from a few fun setpieces and stages that are too short lived, Sonic Forces is an underwhelming experience that has good ideas but implements them poorly. Modern Sonic was fine, Classic Sonic completely underused and his jump felt to me like he weighed a ton. The later Avatar stages (specifically the one in Green Hill and the last one) led to the most frustration for me due to the heavy platforming aspect not connecting with the Avatar‘s control scheme at all.

The story is a complete let-down. I liked the idea of bringing back past villains and Infinite seemed cool, too, yet both ideas were handled poorly. The final boss, like all bosses really, is just boring and easy. Also, Sonic, you were tortured for half a year and yet you joke around as always. And, Eggman, you just now decide to throw Sonic out into space? Boy, this sure is plot-convenient!

@GoldenGamer88 C'mon, we both know that cutscene Sonic is immortal. Not unbeatable like cutscene Dante, but he's still ridiculously tough. How many long falls has he suffered without a scratch? And he's survived atmospheric re-entry at least once without being Super.

I also feel that Sonic doesn't crack as many jokes as usual. He certainly doesn't resort to name-calling (Baldy McNosehair/Egghead), and only really does it against foes he knows can understand it. Kind of like Spider-Man. By himself, you can sense his resentment towards Eggman for his imprisonment, so just because he isn't being Shadow 2.0 doesn't he wasn't affected by it.