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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Online Subscription Service Thread

Posts 21 to 40 of 1,204

Octane

@FaeKnight Yes, those games have servers, but they are on Blizzard's and EA's servers (not 100% sure about FIFA, could be P2P), not Nintendo's servers. Blizzard and EA don't charge you to play online. Nintendo's own games use P2P (and I don't see why they would change that).

Octane

FaeKnight

For online play, I'd say it's less open and shut that Nintendo's games don't have central servers. For local play, yeah it's peer to peer. But for online play, that hasn't really been how games have done things for a while. And with good reasons too.

But either way, the fee isn't going to be to use their servers, it's to use their Online Service. Same with Xbox or Playstation. Let's face it, the writing has been on the wall ever since Microsoft tried charging people a monthly fee just to play online multiplayer, and people were willing to do so. It's a bit late now to whine about how "I'm already paying for internet". Gamers should have collectively voted with their wallets when Microsoft first introduced XBL as a paid service if that's what they wanted.

Instead Microsoft got away with it, and Sony saw what was going on and decided to try to do the same. And it worked, yet again. People were willing to pay every month to play online multiplayer when they use to do so for free.

Is it any wonder Nintendo has decided to follow suit now that they have a console that's doing well and is considered a strong contender for the other big names in home consoles again?

FaeKnight

Switch Friend Code: SW-6813-5901-0801 | Twitter:

Therad

Joeynator3000 wrote:

I'm gonna laugh if Nintendo's servers crash once this thing launches, lol

Jokes on you, they don't have servers!

Edited on by Therad

Therad

Therad

@FaeKnight they are beyond a doubt peer to peer. There is a reason they want you to port forward every port on your router to the switch.

And people are paying for the online, not their services. They are there to sweeten the deal. Without the online part they would have far less subscribers.

Edited on by Therad

Therad

Yorumi

@FaeKnight all nintendo's games are p2p, that's been proven for a while. In fact almost all console games across all 3 systems run p2p for their multiplayer. There isn't broad use of servers in video games. For the most part it's MMOs., and pc games though a lot still do p2p.

@Therad I kind of suspect if the extras weren't there it would be illegal. I still wish someone would have challenged it anyway. When it comes specifically to the online, and in nintendo's case cloud backups, all they're doing is placing a lock on the system and demanding money to remove it. In the case of cloud saves it's locking you out of local backup to force you to buy cloud saves. I could be wrong but I really don't think that would stand up in court.

Yorumi

Nintendo Network ID: yorumi

Alantor28

@Yorumi ...Proof or you're just making things up. I have been a longtime Nintendo fan and I have never seen anything ridiculous like your post. It's like you're trying to convince people to not get the Nintendo Switch's Online Service subscription.

I'm getting the Online Subscription. It only costs $20 a year. Now I know why some people don't take u seriously...

Switch Friend Code: SW-6488-5483-0698
PSN: MMX20

Switch Friend Code: SW-6488-5483-0698

RedderRugfish

Yorumi wrote:

I kind of suspect if the extras weren't there it would be illegal. I still wish someone would have challenged it anyway. When it comes specifically to the online, and in nintendo's case cloud backups, all they're doing is placing a lock on the system and demanding money to remove it. In the case of cloud saves it's locking you out of local backup to force you to buy cloud saves. I could be wrong but I really don't think that would stand up in court.

Exactly what law are they breaking? Are we gonna sue App Store developers for locking their apps behind a paywall? Are we gonna sue companies who lock on disc DLC behind a paywall? Are we gonna sue cable companies for locking the channels for the TV we already paid for behind a paywall? Are we gonna sue McDonald's for locking their food behind a paywall?

Mario Maker 2: JN2-5GV-VTF
Latest Level: The Mario Repair Shop 361-D5D-1CG

CamouflageRO

ReaderRagfish wrote:

Yorumi wrote:

I kind of suspect if the extras weren't there it would be illegal. I still wish someone would have challenged it anyway. When it comes specifically to the online, and in nintendo's case cloud backups, all they're doing is placing a lock on the system and demanding money to remove it. In the case of cloud saves it's locking you out of local backup to force you to buy cloud saves. I could be wrong but I really don't think that would stand up in court.

Exactly what law are they breaking? Are we gonna sue App Store developers for locking their apps behind a paywall? Are we gonna sue companies who lock on disc DLC behind a paywall? Are we gonna sue cable companies for locking the channels for the TV we already paid for behind a paywall? Are we gonna sue McDonald's for locking their food behind a paywall?

We can do that witt McD, i would liek free burgers

CamouflageRO

Switch Friend Code: SW-6029-8832-0509 | My Nintendo: Camouflage

Therad

Alantor28 wrote:

@Yorumi ...Proof or you're just making things up. I have been a longtime Nintendo fan and I have never seen anything ridiculous like your post. It's like you're trying to convince people to not get the Nintendo Switch's Online Service subscription.

I'm getting the Online Subscription. It only costs $20 a year. Now I know why some people don't take u seriously...

Depending on your router it is simple to see it in the logs. Your switch either connects to different machines during a match or a bunch of machines connects to you.

Also, Nintendo wants you to port forward every port from your router to your switch. Not only is this a big security risk, there is no reason to do that at all if you don't have a server. Why would Nintendo want you to treat your switch as a server?

Therad

Therad

@ReaderRagfish technically they are using your bandwidth for servers without informing you. This might be a breach of our favorite acronym, gdpr.

Therad

Yorumi

@ReaderRagfish To a large degree what they're doing is no different from ransomware. It would be a grey area but the law does say you own the hardware when you buy it. Especially for online only games they're essentially making it unusable if you don't pay by locking your switch. The law has ruled that a manufacturer cannot brick a system just because they don't like what you're doing with it. So you could argue that point, could possibly argue ant-trust. They're essentially forcing non-competition and then locking you out of features if you don't pay up. This is different from an app locking things because in this case I'm using my own hardware and my own internet. It would be a long shot but that's really how shady paid online is.

@Alantor28 as I said you can google the price of a matchmaking server and then it's simple math. It's also not hard to figure out the games are p2p, we can you know look at the ip address in the header of packets.

Yorumi

Nintendo Network ID: yorumi

RedderRugfish

@Yorumi This and ransomware are completely different, and they're not doing anything remotely close to bricking your system if you don't pay for premium features. It might not be great practice, but it's still quite a stretch to call it illegal.

Mario Maker 2: JN2-5GV-VTF
Latest Level: The Mario Repair Shop 361-D5D-1CG

HobbitGamer

Yorumi wrote:

@ReaderRagfish To a large degree what they're doing is no different from ransomware. It would be a grey area but the law does say you own the hardware when you buy it. Especially for online only games they're essentially making it unusable if you don't pay by locking your switch. The law has ruled that a manufacturer cannot brick a system just because they don't like what you're doing with it. So you could argue that point, could possibly argue ant-trust. They're essentially forcing non-competition and then locking you out of features if you don't pay up. This is different from an app locking things because in this case I'm using my own hardware and my own internet. It would be a long shot but that's really how shady paid online is.

It's extremely different than ransomware. Ransomware takes your access away from something that had no connection to the creator of the ransomware, and demands you pay money to get your access back.

There are ToS regarding all these games that have online features that include the disclaimer that availability is subject to change. It's no different than shutting down Miiverse, you can't say they're doing anything wrong. They provided it, user agreed, then they took it away.

You know those ads where you can sign up for something and you'll be offered a 30-day trial of another product? What happens after the 30-days; you get charged for another 30 days if you don't cancel. There's nothing wrong with it, it's in a disclaimer. It's not illegal or shady at all. It was presented up front ahead of time.

This is so far from illegal that ambulance-chasing lawyers are rolling their eyes

#TeamPineapple
#MeatAndGreet

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

Alantor28

@HobbitGamer Ya know, I believe Yorumi won't listen to reason. And I agree with what you say, HobbitGamer. This is far from ransomware. So I don't know what Yorumi is talking about.

Switch Friend Code: SW-6488-5483-0698
PSN: MMX20

Switch Friend Code: SW-6488-5483-0698

HobbitGamer

@Alantor28 All I do know is that I've saved a $20 bill since I bought my Switch in February this year. (I'd been paying for Xbox Live Gold for 8 years, and never had a problem. It's just the cost of doin business.) I'm looking forward to the 20 NES games available at launch, even if some I may only play for a few minutes every once in awhile.
I'm okay with this, that doesn't make me a terrible consumer. I'm not going to try and change someone else's mind, either. If someone can't see value in it for themselves, then that justifies them not purchasing it. It's how free market works, thank goodness

#TeamPineapple
#MeatAndGreet

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

Yorumi

@HobbitGamer @ReaderRagfish In the case of multiplayer it's not a "premium feature" it's something you paid for when you bought the game. The reason I say it's ransomware though is because think about what they're actually doing. They're locking you out of your own internet using hardware you own if you don't pay. Nintendo doesn't own the internet, they don't own the lines. Yet if you don't pay them you can't use it.

Lets consider another scenario though. You're playing a 3rd party game. If you don't pay nintendo will lock you out of access to that game's multiplayer. They own nothing about the game, they don't own the internet, they don't own the matchmaking servers, nothing. "Ransomware takes your access away from something that had no connection to the creator of the ransomware." Hmm, so nintendo takes away access from something that had no connection to the creator of the lock.

Whether or not it's legal I don't know but one thing is for certain it is currently the most unethical and scummiest practice in the game industry today.

Yorumi

Nintendo Network ID: yorumi

HobbitGamer

@Yorumi A 3rd Party game licensed for use on Nintendo hardware. That comes with a disclaimer.
Here's some more clarity, too.
You don't own the internet in your house; You are under a service agreement with an internet service provider. You pay them in exchange for the provision of internet service.
You don't own the lines; same as above

You also can't use the argument of "I already pay for internet and i'm being charged by nintendo to use it" without also stating that Nintendo would be charging you to use your; electricity, cost of furniture, cost of food to maintain your metabolic rate, housing cost. Right? Because you already paid Nintendo for a game and have to pay for those things, but now Nintendo is "double charging you".
To be absolutely clear, I'm not upset at or berating you or anything even unhappy, I'm just trying to say I can't get to the level you're coming from on how this is a terrible practice. Paying for online service for consoles has existed for just under 16 years.

#TeamPineapple
#MeatAndGreet

Switch Friend Code: SW-7842-2075-5515 | My Nintendo: HobbitGamr | Nintendo Network ID: HobbitGamr

FaeKnight

Based on other consoles and what they do, online only games likely wont require a Nintendo Online subscription. This is doubly true if the game it's self wants a subscription to play it. If Final Fantasy XIV came to switch, you could likely play it without being a paid Nintendo Online member. You'll be able to keep playing Fortnight and Paladins without being a paid member too. Microsoft initially tried that, and the backlash was so great that they reversed the decision. Sony learned that lesson from watching and didn't even try charging to play games that are online only.

Single player, local multiplayer, and local wireless multiplayer are gated by Nintendo Online subscription. This means your system isn't bricked if you choose not to play. Nor are you locked out of multiplayer. None of your games are being held hostage by the paid premium service, you can still in fact play them. And you've been warned all along that you are currently experiencing a trial of the Nintendo Online service and it will become a paid service at some point. It's not Nintendo's fault you didn't read the fine print on those games you bought. Nor is it their fault that you didn't pay attention when your Switch it's self told you this.

This is an entirely predictable move on Nintendo's part. If you couldn't see the writing on the wall, that's also not Nintendo's fault. The only reason they didn't implement such a system with the Wii and Wii U was because the systems weren't doing that well. Sure the Wii had a huge initial install base, but most people quickly got tired of it and shelved the system. Especially after 3rd party publishers all but abandoned the system.

FaeKnight

Switch Friend Code: SW-6813-5901-0801 | Twitter:

Yorumi

@HobbitGamer the reason people say nintendo is charging you to use your own internet is because that's what they're doing. You could make the case for electricity if they were charging you per hour of play or something. It's entirely accurate to say they're charging you to use your internet because they are. The console is perfectly capable of playing a game online over p2p without using things nintendo built. The only reason it can't is because nintendo installed a lock on the system and wants you to pay to remove it.

You can give whatever excuse you want but the fact of the matter is it's a scummy, unethical practice and I don't care who's been doing it. It's funny the same scummy company to start it was the same one successfully prosecuted under anti-trust laws. But hey scum got away with a scam so don't criticize nintendo when they become scummy too right?

Sorry I don't just roll over and blindly accept anything some corporation does. It just gets really annoying watching the "it's ok when my favorite company does it" crowd supporting the continual erosion of consumer rights and watching our game companies get worse and worse and worse without any push back.

Yorumi

Nintendo Network ID: yorumi

Alantor28

@Yorumi Too bad, not everyone agrees with what you say.

Switch Friend Code: SW-6488-5483-0698
PSN: MMX20

Switch Friend Code: SW-6488-5483-0698

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