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Topic: Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee!

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Reginald

Anti-Matter wrote:

@Reginald
Unless if Pokemon Switch looks similar with Final Fantasy XII / Xenoblade, where you can encounter with Pokemons directly, No Random Battle anymore. FF XII / Xenoblade itself already felt like Open World RPG, so don't worry about the world. I think it will not so Empty as you concern about. Beside, who don't want to see a Beautiful worlds fulfilled with beautiful environments and Pokemons swarming around the world.

I would rather have that as a spin-off game and not as a main one.

Reginald

Anti-Matter

@Reginald
Oh, btw. Have you ever know about Fantasy Life 3DS or Portal Knights ?

I think you can feel how does Pokemon games in Open World style from those games. In my opinion, Pokemon games feels better in Open World style like both of them. Random Battles is kinda tedious for me, but encounter specific Pokemons by your eyes is kinda interesting.

Anyway, what is your fear if Pokemon Switch using Open World style, compared by Traditional way Pokemon games ?

Anti-Matter

Reginald

I don't have a fear, I just think that an open world format would not suit Pokemon based on the way it is structured.

Reginald

chriiiiiiiiiis

I really hope they don't change the formula for Pokemon too much. Without random encounters in grass or caves etc, I think it's no longer a normal Pokemon game for me. I don't mind a spinoff idea but don't lose the formula that has been loved for so long.

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Nicolai

Hitokage1 wrote:

All I want from a Pokemon game is... all opponent Pokemon give the same amount of EVs.

This way you would still be able to just play the game without giving a thought about its internal values as you're getting it or training it, and still be able to battle real people without being completely destroyed in two seconds.

Octane wrote:

Wait, what do you mean? ... And every battle nets the same amount of EVs..?

I think he means something along the lines of doing away with EV's altogether, so that getting competent Pokémon doesn't take as much random chance and grinding. I do find it a shame that I can't go online and expect to have a chance without spending 100+ hours on the game first.

Edited on by Nicolai

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Octane

@Nicolai Removing EVs means that two of the same Pokemon are about equal in stats. That's pretty boring...

I think you can ignore IVs easily (they matter, but aren't that important for regular online battles), and EV training doesn't take that long if you know what you're doing.

Octane

Nicolai

@Octane I think it takes a while, and its pretty annoying to have to remove yourself from the story and pick and choose pokemon from the wild. It's complicated and never explained well; the first few times I read tutorials and articles on EV training, I was left with a million questions. At the beginning of the game, you usually either don't know about it, have forgotten about it, or don't have the means to do it, which means the Pokemon you start off with never reach their full potential. Plus they never show you a Pokemon's EVs until Pokemon XY, but even then they make this silly and boring minigame the most efficient way to do it. The last time I started up XY, I wouldn't go anywhere until I maxed a Pokemon's EVs with the training game, because of which I lost interest before going any further.

I have a lot of gripes like these about the modern pokemon games. They keep adding features and charts and systems that are impossible to keep track of on top of your item management, breeding, movesets, happiness, abilities, natures, etc. It's overwhelming. Overpowered Legendaries that walk into your lap during story mode, whereas catching a feebas is like winning the lottery. 700+ Pokemon that require multiple games I don't own in order to "catch-em'-all. Whenever I play a Pokemon game anymore, I stay the heck away from online battles and extra content, and just play the story mode over and over.

Edited on by Nicolai

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Octane

@Nicolai EV training has gotten easier with every generation. The effect of the power items got doubled this generation. So maxing out a single stat is pretty easy. 10 vitamins, around 15 battles with a power item and your stat is maxed out, and that's without Pokerus. Repeat this for the second stat you want to max out and you're done. It's really not that difficult at all.

I'm fine with the current system. The more effort you put into your Pokemon, the better the result is. You can't expect to walk into the Olympics and compete with athletes without any sort of training at all. Same is true for Pokemon, except it's not a life-long commitment.

Octane

Haruki_NLI

@Tsurii Actually IVs arrived with breeding, it also determined shinies and gender I believe. EVs always existed in a different form.

The stats as we know them now though are from Gen 3.

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Octane

@BLP_Software IVs were a thing in generation 1. Gen 1 and 2 used the same (weird) system for IVs and EVs that got ditched in gen 3.

Octane

Haruki_NLI

@Octane @Tsurii Thanks for the clarification. I knew that Gen 3 changed them for the, admittedly, easier to grasp things they are now, and slapped all the other stuff onto PVs you cant check.

But I don't know how they work in Gen 1 or 2 because the day I go back to the barely functioning mess of Gen 1 or, in my opinion, the messy structure and lack of variety of Gen 2, is a cold day indeed.

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Octane

@BLP_Software It's was lot simpler. Four IV stats, HP was based on the combination of those four IVs. EVs gained were equal to the base stat of the opponent, so a Pikachu would grant you 90 speed EVs. You could max out every stat, and even EV train level 100 Pokemon. Special Attack and Special Defense used a single IV and EV value to remain compatible with the first generation. Since it lacked an EV limit, EV training wasn't really a thing and it only meant you had to defeat enough Pokemon till you maxed out every stat.

Octane

Nicolai

@Octane @Tsurii
I know IV's and EV's were a thing in gen 1. The only reason I mentioned "modern" pokemon games is because modern games have added so many other systems on top of it, like natures, abilities, and moves only obtained by breeding. I don't want to have to be "training for the Olympics" just to have a fun match online, or even with my friends for that matter.

Oh well, most Pokemon fans seem to like it. It's not like I'm saying it's wrong, I just don't like it myself.

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Octane

@Nicolai I get what you're saying, but I think EV training has been made more accessible in each new entry. It used to take a lot longer in gen 3 for example. It's a relatively quick process these days, and compared to the grindy nature of some other RPGs, I don't think this is bad at all.

Simplifying the system leads to less interesting matches I think. Things would become less complex and thus more predictable.

Octane

-Green-

I would love it if they could simplify the process of breeding Pokemon for Specific traits. I actually do enjoy breeding but I hate breeding like a hundred Pokemon just to get the right IV Pokemon with the right trait and ability.

They don't have to make it a cake walk, but just make it a bit easier.

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Nicolai

@Octane I haven't gotten Pokemon Sun/Moon yet. You're right, it's much faster in XY, but it's still too dang slow and tedious for me. And once you do it for one Pokemon, he's stuck like that. Make the mistake of... I dunno... maxing out Raticate's Special Attack or something, and you'd have to catch a whole new rattata and level it up again. That sentimental value you attached to that first Rattata? Gone. If they simplify the battle system too much, than I vote to just make the process take less time. Or include a post-game item that makes it a snap. We'll see what they do for Pokémon Switch.

To be honest, my opinion should probably be discounted becuase I don't even like RPG's anyway. Mostly because of reasons like these. Senseless grinding, arbitrary numbers and rules, lack of explanation about said rules, extremely long and tedious upgrading systems that you can't take back... the level of frustration that comes from realizing I should have been using all of that XP or money on other features, and now that I haven't, I can't beat the next part of the game without another 10 hours of mindless grinding (less so in Pokémon because the campaign is super easy, as long as you know your type chart). At least in games like Splatoon, if you spend hours fixing your abilities and realize it doesn't work well, you can always just switch out your gear. Your random clothes likely work just as fine in competitive play anyway, as long as you have the skills to back it up.

Ah well, I probably just need to "get gud" or whatever.

Edited on by Nicolai

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Bolt_Strike

Well, I'm probably either waiting on this game, DP remakes, or whenever they decide to go open world for my next Pokemon game. USUM looks like a lazy cash grab, and with the Switch I'm going to start expecting more of Game Freak so I'm not buying another linear, game wide tutorial of a game with no content. I've never been so unenthusiastic about the direction of this series.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

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Octane

@Nicolai In gen 3 they introduced the new berry system and 6 of those berries can lower the EVs of a certain stat by 10 points (while also increasing happiness). So you can erase EVs if you messed up.

Octane

Nicolai

Octane wrote:

@Nicolai In gen 3 they introduced the new berry system and 6 of those berries can lower the EVs of a certain stat by 10 points (while also increasing happiness). So you can erase EVs if you messed up.

Gaah! I didn't know this! The descriptions just say they lower that stat, I thought it was just temporary status changes!

I rest my case. This is why rpgs and me don't mix. It seems silly that the world of Pokémon has all of these gadgets that sense a pokemon's happiness level, yet EV's have to be this mysterious thing.

Also, wouldn't you need a heck of a lot of berries to start over? And you'd be keeping track of all of this on pen and paper?

Edited on by Nicolai

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Nicolai

@Tsurii I swear, whenever I look up articles on how to do this stuff, its always missing crucial information. I went through this kind of hell when figuring how how to do chain-fishing, too.

Let's just agree that rpgs are not for me. I'm getting a little weary talking about it so much. This discussion kinda blew up into something bigger than I wanted it to. Maybe I should check out Sun/Moon, though, if it really reduces the time it takes to get competitive stuff.

Edited on by Nicolai

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