Topic: Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee!

@Harmonie
What's the difference between having to wait a year for an expansion (in which you'd get a new region, Pokémon and story) or having to wait for the next gen in the form of a new game like it has been up 'till now?

The BIG difference would be that the expansion would be integrated into the base game, making for a much larger game when all is said and done. Wouldn't it be amazing if, say in 5 or 6 years time, your Pokémon game on Switch would have 500 or 600+ Pokémon available and an area as big as an entire continent to explore? Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinoh,... all in one? Wouldn't that be amazing?
That's what I would like to see, and they can easily do that with a reboot.

It probably won't happen, I'm just dreaming here, but to outright dismiss a reboot without knowing what they're going to do with it seems silly to me.

@Iconorobin The difference is not having access to the rest of the pokemon unless you pay for that DLC, which currently isn't the case with trading, pokebank, and transfer abilities. Hiding them behind DLC is idiotic and will enrage 90% of the fan base (yes I pulled that stat out of my butt). Why in the world would you want to wait to have access to the Pokemon outside of the original 151 when we have access to all of them right now? These Pokemon that just came out a couple of years ago wouldn't see the light of day in 6 years? I'm sorry, but that is stupid.

@NapalmPsalm
Alright, I understand your point in wanting all the Pokémon we've got right now to be available in the next one. That's fair.
But forget about the availability of Pokémon for a minute. Wouldn't you want a big interconnected world like I mentioned in my previous post? Just being curious here...

Alright I need to break this down because people are wondering why long time fans aren't happy about any of this Kanto pandering.

Let's start with Pokemon X and Y - 2013

The first wild Pokemon you encounter is a Pidgey. This is mandatory
Before your second gym badge, you get given the Kanto Starters
Of the Pokemon that Mega Evolve introduced in XY, 10 out of 26 of them are Generation 1 creatures.
Mewtwo and Charizard both got two Mega Evolutions for some reason.
Lysandre, the villain of the game, uses Mega Gyarados as his main, unlike every other villain in the series who mains a current generation Pokemon (Rhydon/Camerupt/Sharpedo/Weavile/Hydreigon/Golisopod/Bewear)
The map layout for Santlune Forest is tile for tile Viridian Forest.
The Laverre Gym (6th in the game) uses the puzzle and 3 by 3 grid layout of Saffron Gym, the 6th in Kanto.
Team Flare starts by stealing fossils for money and Pokeballs, alongside Pokemon theft. Sound familiar?
The only notable post-game content besides Zygarde, is one of the legendary birds and Mewtwo in a cave, just like Generation 1.
111 Generation 1 Pokemon are part of the 457 large Kalos Dex.
That number is higher than the number of new Pokemon introduced in this game by the way

Moving on to Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire - 2014

Added 3 more Kanto Mega Evolutions.
Cosplay Pikachu was a special this game only Pikachu

Moving on to Pokemon Sun and Moon - 2016

All of the Alolan Forms are Kanto Pokemon.
Red and Blue return.
Samson Oak an obvious call back to Professor Oak
Sans Sharpedo and Mudsdale, all of the Ride Pokemon are from Generation 1, one of which, Charizard, doesn't even appear in the game.
Kanto is frequently mentioned as a place that exists.
Pikachu gets an Exclusive Z-move, as does Snorlax and Mew and Eevee and Raichu
88 Pokemon of the 302 wide Dex are Generation 1 Pokemon.
That number is higher than the number of new Pokemon introduced in this game by the way

Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon - 2017

All of the above plus:
Pikachu gets ANOTHER Z-Move
Team Rocket returns
98 of the 403 Pokedex is Kanto Pokemon.

Generation 1, almost every aspect of it sans actually setting foot there, has been crammed in our faces for 5 years now. The only exciting part to people who played the recent games is the aspect of actually being IN Kanto, but even that has been done 4 times already.

If they bring back Red and Blue? Who cares you just did that. Bring back Team Rocket? You just did that.

Only the 151 originals? Well let's give percentages.

In XY, 24.28% of the Pokedex was dedicated solely to Generation 1, leaving the remains 75% to be dished out between Generations 2-6.

In S/M, 29.13% of the Pokedex is Generation 1, with Generations 2-7 getting the remaining 31%

In US/UM, 24.41% of the Pokedex is Generation 1, with Generations 2-7 getting the remainder again.

None of this is exciting because its already been bloody done to death!

@Iconorobin My initial reaction would be yeah, but when I stop and think about it... not as much. It depends on how it is handled. Would I move on to the next region with my OP Lv 100 pokemon or would I be forced to start from the beginning with a new pokemon? At that point why not just make a new game with better enhancements? In 6 years we should probably be having better graphics and possible a better engine to run the game in. We might even have a new console to play games on. Having one game span 6 like pokemon would be handicapping series imo. Again, initial reaction is heck yeah but really thinking about it would sell ourselves short on having the best possible experience with the series.

@Snaplocket "Every game has a big chunk of the returns be Gen 1"

Let's shoot that down shall we?

Gen 2 - This is true. 151 vs 100

Gen 3 - 44 out of 202. 21%. Mitigated by only being 3 generations deep, however, the majority of the Pokedex is the NEW 135 Pokemon introduced.

Gen 4 - DP had 32 out of 151, that's 21.19%, however a good chunk of Gen 4 Pokemon aren't in the regional dex. Platinum fixed that.

Platinum had 46 out of 210, that's 21.9%, with still some omissions from Gen 4's new introductions. 107 new, notice how the NEW still outweighs the old.

Gen 5 - BW had....NONE! 0%. 156 all new things.

BW2 had 38 of 300. 12.66%. 156 things new still.

So no, the "Bulk" never used to be Gen 1. That's recent when coincidentally they borrowed a lot more from the original games, as noted starting in XY. They were always THERE, but the new outweighed the old considerably and even then the old were more evenly distributed through what was available.

I would expect 20-30% of the Hoenn Pokedex to be Gen 1 stuff, as outside of the new Gen 3 things, well there is only two other generations to pull from right?

But when there are 6 other generations to pull from, why is it STILL that high, in a Pokedex with FAR MORE things in it?

Finally, yes they COULD do new things with this. But so far, returning characters, returning region, only old Pokemon. How much new can you do with that really?

@Snaplocket I can safely say given USUM ends with Giovanni teleporting off to a different world (Subtle) that we are seeing Team Rocket again instead of new villains.

Plus, its Kanto. Itll have Professor Oak. They may change the Gym Leaders I guess?

Both newer gens did have way bigger dexes but introduced less, yes, I made note of that.

I am fine with introducing less new things. Quality over quantity after all.

BUT, lets take generation 8 for instance.

Lets say that game follows suit and has a Pokedex of 300-400 Pokemon like BW2/XY/SM/USUM. There are at that point 7 generations to pull from. If 25% of the dex is STILL Gen 1, thats a problem, because the pool of things to pull from with each generation gets bigger, so why is the proportion of Generation 1 things INCREASING?

You would think as the pool gets bigger, as more options to bring back appear, the number from the first specific generation wouldn't INCREASE, right?

I've been thinking about it, what if this Yellow remake is Gen 8?

@Snaplocket It guarantees absolutely nothing.

But the post game cameo filled story of ORAS established the Ultra Wormhole phenomena. The cameo of Looker in that game established him as a Faller.

Fun fact about assuming the worst though - it means if it comes to pass, you were prepared and wont be disappointed, and if anything better than that happens, its a nice surprise.

@Snaplocket I'm miserable anyway. Best part of clinical depression

@Snaplocket Nah its cool. Im upfront about it.

Ive just learned to expect the worst ya know?

But hey if these rumours are true Ill enjoy the game more than XY.

At least Ill know this is just Kanto again BEFORE playing it!

They reuse Viridian Forest and Saffron Gym, and again, Kanto starters.

It had more going on but a lot of it was notably Kanto.

@Snaplocket Let's count those "few and far between" references:

• Gen 1 starters
• Unknown Dungeon and its endgame Mewtwo
• Bird trio
• Asleep Snorlax blocking a route
• Lots of Kanto Pokémon getting Megas
• The hideout of the villainous team uses a café as a front and it features spin and warp tiles
• The guy that trades you his Farfetch'd
• Also this:
  

All that on top of all the NPCs who namedrop Kanto or someone from that region. All of this doesn't make Kalos a rehash of Kanto, but it doesn't feel like the region has an identity of its own.

@YummyHappyPills I'd recommend you maintain a positive outlook for life, it really makes a beneficial difference. Except for things related to Nintendo lol — for Nintendo expect the worst so you end up being pleasantly surprised.

Anyway guys we should know a good amount about this game by the end of next week (if not sooner), so soon we'll know how much all of these rumors are correct. I really really REALLY hope the Kanto in this game is akin to the one depicted in Pokemon I Choose You from 2017, where Kanto has a bunch of Gen 2-7 Pokemon and many trainers have Pokemon from a wide variety of regions. It's going to be quite disappointing if it's just the original 151.

I haven't seen that movie yet but that's I guess I'll watch it now.

@Snaplocket I was going to say this but I couldn't find the exact words to put together. Thanks.

@Snaplocket Did you read the last two lines of my post at all?

@Snaplocket Yeah I should probably clarify that. What I meant was, Nintendo’s decisions are often so hard to predict and often seemingly outside of normal logic that expectations will probably not be met and you’d end up disappointed and negative towards a game. Expect less and you get pleasantly surprised. I guess “expect less” is what I meant to say.

@MarcelRguez "but it doesn't feel like the region has an identity of its own".

@KaiserGX It doesn't. All callbacks aren't the same: when you're implementing major identity traits of a previous region into one that's supposed to be its own thing, it ends up feeling as disjoint as an amusement park.

@Snaplocket

Out of the elements you mention, only the bolded are unique to/were introduced in Kalos. All games introduce new gyms, new characters, a big city or the hideout of an evil team.

What I mention a region's "identity" I'm talking about elements that define what you do or how you interact with that region. Concrete moments work as well. Puzzles are a good example, like the Ruins of Alph in GSC. Diving feels like a defining trait of RSE, since it fits the setting and it was introduced there first, etc.

All I can think of that's on a similar level in Kalos is trainer customization and yes, riding Pokémon.