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Topic: Pokemon Sword & Shield

Posts 921 to 940 of 1,207

-Green-

I’m gonna give Gamefreak the benefit of the doubt in this case, again...They are jumping to a new console and are demonstrating some ambition that I really haven’t seen from them since Gen 6

Cutting out Pokémon was an inevitability in the future, but I want to see the increase in quality that comes in exchange for that. The world looks better of course, but hopefully they show in the future, more of these improvements. It’s perfectly fine to criticize Gamefreak though, they’ve made many questionable remarks and decisions in recent times.

Especially for people like us, who have played many of their games, we’ll know more of their flaws. I said it before but I’m somewhat happy some people are at least more open to reasonable criticism of Pokémon now. Some people take it too far, as is always the case, but I’ve long since felt that many glorify or overly defend Pokémon.

Edited on by -Green-

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Ralizah

@Buizel This happens anytime controversy is generated about a game. People start looking for things to complain about.

I almost guarantee we wouldn't be looking at endless GIFs of a "double kick" animation and/or the same small set of screenshots supposedly showing off problems with the game on Reddit and other sites if the Pokedex thing hadn't come out.

Granted, they did kinda walk into this with the 'we can't incorporate more Pokemon because of how high-quality our in-game animations and models are' bit.

@Octane Hahaha. Yeah, they probably shouldn't include flying Pokemon on the map if they're not going to include flying animations along with them. Hopefully that's something they address between now and release.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

Tsurii

@Octane the issue with Wingull might be that the thing always looked stupid and flew like that. I think you get some flaps during battles but outside of those it's either the silly ass gliding/"t-posing" or awkwardly sitting on the ground like it does in Pokepark, iirc.
And Gamefreak likely see it kinda like "it's always been like that and no one complained" and that's the end of it for them.

I'm not gonna act like Pokémon shouldn't look better, altho I'm also part of the camp to think Sword and Shield look great already, but you can't expect a studio like Gamefreak, who're honestly a tad incompetent, to deliver AAA visuals when not even BotW/Zelda gets that treatment quite yet. Japanese/JRPG devs in general just focus on other stuff beyond just visuals and it took a lot of the 3rd party ones until now to really get "HD" down (excluding Squenix)

And this is GF's first 3D game on an HD console. With them being slow as hell in general with really making good use of hardware

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Octane

@Ralizah Nah, a similar thing happened last with LGPE. When the news came out that it would only feature the first 151 Pokemon, people wondered whether they would finally address the ''lazy'' battle animations that have been in the games since XY. But they didn't. So videos like these popped up all over the place as well:

Octane

iKhan

Tsurii wrote:

I'm not gonna act like Pokémon shouldn't look better, altho I'm also part of the camp to think Sword and Shield look great already, but you can't expect a studio like Gamefreak, who're honestly a tad incompetent, to deliver AAA visuals when not even BotW/Zelda gets that treatment quite yet. Japanese/JRPG devs in general just focus on other stuff beyond just visuals and it took a lot of the 3rd party ones until now to really get "HD" down (excluding Squenix)

This tends to be the case because most JRPGs don't sell that well. The reason you can "exclude Squenix" is that FF and DQ sell like mad so that they can afford a budget. When a JRPG does have decent sell through, you get Ni No Kunis and Xenoblade Chronicles.

Pokemon has been less ambitious than Tales, which has had a shoestring budget. I'll remind you that Pokemon is one of the largest media franchises of all time, and each main series game sells over 10M.

They can afford to be ambitious. They choose not to, because the fandom accepts mediocrity moreso than most other franchises. Even Mario has to evolve pretty frequently, and gets called out by the fanbase for cashgrabs like NSMB

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Octane

@iKhan NSMB wasn't the problem. It became a problem when they launched 2 and U

Octane

Ralizah

@Octane Right. If some sort of controversial design choice is made these days, a collective narrative quickly develops about a product or piece of media, and social media echo chambers proceed to tear something apart that they otherwise would have left alone or even praised had it not attracted the community's ire with whatever the controversial design choice happened to be. The degree to which this happens corresponds roughly to the degree of offense a mob has collectively decided to feel about whatever the offending game design choice was.

There's no way the sort of deranged reception S/S is getting in a lot of online communities right now would have been in any way similar had the Pokedex controversy not cropped up. People wouldn't be spamming the same screenshot of a tree or the same animation of Scorbunny using doublekick every day. The most upvoted or liked comments wouldn't be people crying about how lazy GameFreak is. Some people, occasionally, might point out instances of lazy animation in the game, or deliver the occasional criticism, but most of the online fanbase wouldn't spend their time and energy incessantly trashing the games any time something even tangentially related to them is mentioned.

As @CanisWolfred said, it's really easy for social media sites to facilitate the development of echo chambers. And people immersed in echo chambers almost never see their perspectives evolve to become more fair and nuanced. They pretty much always rile each other up and, by constantly reinforcing each-other's community-approved opinions, see their own viewpoints become increasingly extreme and hyperbolic. This is hardly limited to video game-centric communities, of course.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

MsJubilee

This Pokedex fiasco opened a lot of eyes. For that i'm thankful to Mr. Masuda.

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Anti-Matter

I think it's funny to see current Pokemon games after more than 20 years.
The Pokemon attacks were still looked like Classic Final Fantasy style, ranged attack.
Here is the analogy.

Compare with Monster Rancher 4 battle animation.
There is NO long ranged attack style from Monster Rancher 4. Every attacks will directly hit onto opponents.

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Anti-Matter

@MsJubilee
I don't see fiasco from current Pokedex for Sword / Shield.

My Top 6 games :
1. Dance Dance Revolution series (100)
2. Dragon Quest Builders 2 PS4/Switch (95)
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5. Final Fantasy VIII PS1 (90)
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Yorumi

@Ralizah it's interesting the way people use logical fallacies to try to invalidate discussion rather than addressing it. Isn't it interesting how when it comes to talk of echo chambers, group think, or bad behavior your own group is never the problem? The criticism? Well no they're not thinking for themselves at all, it's just an echo chamber and everyone is just a robot so why bother? The ones being positive? Well no there's no way they're part of any group think. They couldn't possibly be influenced by anything like popularity, marketing, or nostalgia.

The problem is you're implying that you know everything about the behavior of people you've never met. It's certainly possible some are falling victim to group think but given the amount of criticism pokemon has been receiving in the last few years it's entirely possible it's just the straw that broke the camel's back. It would be just as possible to claim the people who like swd/shd are just part of the group think of blind fanboyism and won't criticize anything gamefreak does. It's insulting to people and an ad hominem fallacy making it invalid.

Yorumi

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Anti-Matter

@Yorumi
It's sad to see some peoples got angry for the things we still haven't know yet.

My Top 6 games :
1. Dance Dance Revolution series (100)
2. Dragon Quest Builders 2 PS4/Switch (95)
3. The Sims 4 PS4 + All contents (93)
4. Portal Knights PS4 (90)
5. Final Fantasy VIII PS1 (90)
6. Animal Crossing New Leaf: Welcome Amiibo 3DS (89)

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CanisWolfred

Thanks for reminding me how good the animations in Pokemon Stadium were, guys. It really is a shame we never saw another one with animations of that calibur.

I mean, Pokemon Stadium also lacked trainer animations or explorable areas, and the pokemon themselves were lower poly than anything nowadays, so I'm not saying it'll never happen because they're lazy...but it really does suck that this level of care probably can't logistically fit within their schedule.

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Yorumi

@CanisWolfred The animations in Pokemon Colloseum were pretty good too. That game had a full story mode, 100 floor tower, and 386 pokemon. It had trainer animations too. I'm of the belief that pokemon models and animations would be good for decades so that mitigates any workload concerns. That sad without a national dex it's highly unlikely we're getting significantly more pokemon than see in Colloseum.

It's difficult to call the game a significant improvement over two gamecube games that are 15+ years old.

Yorumi

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Snaplocket

In case GameFreak read's this, I'm just gonna say this.

You don't get better by ignoring complaints, you improve by taking the complaints and learning from them.

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Ralizah

@Yorumi I don't believe I ever implied that echo chambers only magnify negative opinions. Or that all criticism is invalid and a result of groupthink. Or that only certain communities are susceptible to groupthink. Or that nostalgia and marketing don't sway people to react more charitably to something than they otherwise would in the absence of those factors.

I don't believe I've even stated anywhere that Sw/Sh are perfect products, or that there isn't valid criticism that can be made about them.

I engaged in casual speculation about why I think such sudden and sustained outbursts of hyperbolic hostility toward something online might be magnified by social forces that extend beyond the personal. If you feel offended by this observation because, on some level, you realize that it is descriptive of your own behavior online, then I invite you to reflect on this.

@Snaplocket It's funny that you mention Xenoblade 2 as an example of a game dramatically improving from a predecessor, considering the common opinion in Nintendo fan communities seems to be that ít's inferior to the original game. I happen to agree, though. Despite its issues, I thought Xenoblade 2 was a solid improvement all-around when compared to previous games in the series.

Honestly, if it were better optimized for undocked play, ditched the gacha mechanics for rare blades, and streamlined field skill requirements for side quests, it'd likely be my favorite game on the system.

Edited on by Ralizah

Ralizah

Yorumi

@Ralizah it honestly gets tiring seeing the same pattern. Make broad sweeping generalizations that are borderline insulting. I'm sure it's just a coincidence this always happens to a divided fanbase. When called on it claim it wasn't about anyone specific allowing people to attack everyone and no one at the same time, then deflect and claim anyone criticizing the post is the real problem. What purpose is solved by making borderline insulting posts toward people who disagree with you?

Yorumi

Nintendo Network ID: yorumi

Morpheel

Like dismissing the opinion of people who don't hate the game or gamefreak as mere damage control done by white knight fanboys.

Edited on by Morpheel

Yeah I don’t know either.

Eh! My gameplay videos

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Buizel

I don't think it's controversial to say that opinions are more polarised on the internet...especially in fan forums where the vast majority of people are enthusiasts with generally stronger opinions towards the topic than the general public. And it works both ways, with positive and negative.

@Octane ...I don't think I can defend that Wingull, sorry. But I do wonder how much of it's due to Wingull's design, as @Tsurii suggests, or greater limitations around animating flying Pokemon. I don't imagine it would look any better frantically flapping its wings without any wind or direction.

Buizel

Morpheel

To be fair, we all hated the flying models back then in gen 6 too.

It's also a seagull hovering a few feet above ground... It's always gonna look off. Until they decide to create realistic bird movement patterns.

I do wonder how would wingull look just waddling around on its tiny feet though.

Edited on by Morpheel

Yeah I don’t know either.

Eh! My gameplay videos

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