Forums

Topic: Pokemon Sword & Shield

Posts 741 to 760 of 845

-Green-

Hopefully they have a fair mixture of types in the game. Replaying Gen 4 reminded me how much of a pain an imbalance in available types can be, but this could be even worse in SS depending on the amount of them

"Enthusiastic Hi" (awkward stare)
Nintendo Switch Code: SW-5081-0666-1429
PS4 Thing: TBA

iKhan

tobibra wrote:

So, if I understand it correctly, I can only transfer Pokémon found in Galar to the games?
If so, that's a shame. I have three Pokémon that has been with me since Emerald. Its a small downer if I can't reunite with them and some others I met in later games that I have good memories with.

I have a hunch that GF isn't planning on letting your pokemon be abandoned forever. I think their idea with Pokemon Home is that you can store your pokemon in Home, and when a game comes out that DOES support your pokemon, you can bring it in.

Currently Playing: Pokemon Crystal, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Super Smash Bros: Ultimate, Daemon X Machina Prototype Missions

Morpheel

Yeah. Before, leaving a Pokémon species out of a game would literally mean your pokemon could not leave your older game, ever, because Pokémon preservation had to be handled game-to-game.

Now with a dedicated universal storage system, they can pick and choose which pokemon appear in what game, and not leave any individual pokemon stuck in the past forever.

This could also help shake up the competitive scene, by rotating the available species with each "season" (generation).

Edited on by Morpheel

Yeah I don’t know either.

Eh! My gameplay videos

3DS Friend Code: 0173-1330-0080 | My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

-Green-

I’d put more weight in Pokemon trying to use balance as a justification for limiting options of Pokémon in the game if they actually were decent at balancing the game. The fans have to lay out systems for that instead and meanwhile Gamefreak introduces stuff like Mega Rayquaza and Min-Maxed Legendaries to completely power creep the game.

Edit: Actually you know what, was probably a bit too inconsiderate there. They do atleast have systems as to how strong Pokémon should be Stat wise depending on how they evolve and such. And they do try to take into consideration how many types and play styles they introduce each Generation and such. Wouldn’t say they’re good at balancing based on the stuff they continuously introduce and the huge powercreep the franchise has had since Gen 4-ish, but they’re organized and do try.

Edited on by -Green-

"Enthusiastic Hi" (awkward stare)
Nintendo Switch Code: SW-5081-0666-1429
PS4 Thing: TBA

Heavyarms55

@Morpheel That's a reasonable way to look at it, certainly! They were already largely doing that in VGC in the years they limited it to the regional Pokedex and to Pokemon caught or bred in that game.

Though I still think the plan is to release Sword and Shield with the Pokemon they have planned and then either in a DLC expansion, or in a future game on the Switch, using the same engine, reintroduce the remainder. I think they will use unreleased older Pokemon as an additional lure to bring people to newer games.

I hope however they don't follow the 3DS route of not updating previous titles. If we get, for example Sword 2 and Shield 2, I hope Sword and Shield are updated to allow those additional Pokemon to exist in them, rather than forcing players using the newer games to play with a special "old" rule set and ban list.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx
Feel free to add me

-Green-

To Pokémon, DLC = New Game

"Enthusiastic Hi" (awkward stare)
Nintendo Switch Code: SW-5081-0666-1429
PS4 Thing: TBA

Heavyarms55

@-Green- It has long since seemed as though they balance based on the VGC rules only. AKA double battles. Many things that were totally busted in singles were far less OP in doubles. For example, Mega Lucario was banned in Smogon's fan rules for single battles but wasn't nearly as impressive in VGC of the same year - and was largely outclasses by other Megas.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx
Feel free to add me

iKhan

-Green- wrote:

I’d put more weight in Pokemon trying to use balance as a justification for limiting options of Pokémon in the game if they actually were decent at balancing the game. The fans have to lay out systems for that instead and meanwhile Gamefreak introduces stuff like Mega Rayquaza and Min-Maxed Legendaries to completely power creep the game.

Edit: Actually you know what, was probably a bit too inconsiderate there. They do atleast have systems as to how strong Pokémon should be Stat wise depending on how they evolve and such. And they do try to take into consideration how many types and play styles they introduce each Generation and such. Wouldn’t say they’re good at balancing based on the stuff they continuously introduce and the huge powercreep the franchise has had since Gen 4-ish, but they’re organized and do try.

I feel like the powercreep might kind of be a symptom of just having so many pokemon out there. They have tried to simultaneously appeal to fans of older generations and boost older pokemon that had lost relevance, and in the process they kind of created a hyper-arms race.

I think this had to happen for the competitive scene at some point. Just like how card games have rotations of active expansions, Pokemon's competitive scene can't really sustain thousands and thousands of Pokemon growing into eternity. I'm sure it's been a drain on development resources as well, and if they are allocating those resources towards things like the Wild Area, I'm all for it.

Currently Playing: Pokemon Crystal, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Super Smash Bros: Ultimate, Daemon X Machina Prototype Missions

-Green-

Noticed that as well actually Heavy. Gen 7 especially introduced a good amount of abilities that excel greatly in double battles. Still the powercreep they do is crazy as of late despite their attempts to balance. Wish they let us just do double battle in game whenever we wanted instead of finding specific tag partners.

Edit: Yeah it’s a game of one upping themselves each Gen, but realistically speaking iKhan, Pokemon has never been much of balanced game. Bar Gen 2 and maybe Gen 3, every Gen of Pokémon has contributed big Powercreep into the game. In many cases not even involving older Pokémon at all,

Edited on by -Green-

"Enthusiastic Hi" (awkward stare)
Nintendo Switch Code: SW-5081-0666-1429
PS4 Thing: TBA

Heavyarms55

You know, I really like the comparison to rotations in card games. Especially how Pokemon handles their card games. And with Pokemon Home now, you can keep your collection there, and when your Pokemon come back into rotation you can bring them over.

So some Pokemon are "out of rotation this season" for Sword and Shield. But let's face it, there will be more Pokemon games in the future, I don't think anyone questions that. So when the next games come around, they can bring more Pokemon in and rotate others out.

For completionists, Pokemon Home could well have a "Master National Pokedex" or something.

Yeah, looking at it this way, I really like the idea.

Good call @iKhan

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx
Feel free to add me

Octane

@Heavyarms55 The models are the same as gen 6, gen 7, and Pokemon GO. So they don't have to make them anymore. And even if they had to, Creatures does the 3D modelling, not Game Freak.

Octane

Heavyarms55

@Octane Are they really though? I mean stylistically that seems plausible but I don't think we can know for sure yet.

It makes me wonder then if, by the mention of balancing, Game Freak is significantly reworking the stats system. If that isn't the case and the models really are all gen 6 and gen 7 models, then what Masuda said would be a load of nonsense and they would have absolutely no reason to not have every Pokemon from every previous generation. If stats do indeed work the same as gen 7, then balancing for competitive play could be done be simply having online multiplayer rule sets.

The have already done similar things. I believe in XY, ORAS and SM the first year of VGC for those games only allowed the regional Pokedexes.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx
Feel free to add me

Octane

@Heavyarms55 Yeah, it's just a different shader. And the 3DS models were rendered in a lower resolution. Anyway, that was their entire idea behind it; future proof the models so they don't have to redo them every generation.

I don't think stats are being reworked. The last time they've done that (on a big scale) is gen 2 with the special split.

Octane

Heavyarms55

@Octane If that is the case, then it really makes no sense to me at all. If they have the assets and they aren't changing the stats, I don't see a good reason not to include them all. If, they are not changing stat systems around and they already have the models I don't know what the issue is. For competitive play they already have the solution: just implementing custom rules for tournament play. Heck it wouldn't even be hard to all the creation of fan made ban lists for online play.

From what you are telling me it makes absolutely no sense not to have them all. Unless there is some complex feature that they haven't revealed yet. Which strikes me as unlikely, but possible. The was mention of making Pokemon more unique and expressive on the Switch. But I don't know why they would mention that and not show off what they are talking about - at least a teaser or something!

Perhaps it is possible that GF will see the fan reaction and change their minds, or plan to implement them all later in updates or DLC expansions.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx
Feel free to add me

-Green-

Gamefreak probably just ran out of time. Pokémon has to keep up with a very strict schedule I would imagine, since it’s not just a video game but an anime, a trading card game, etc. They can’t delay it so they just decided to do it this way

"Enthusiastic Hi" (awkward stare)
Nintendo Switch Code: SW-5081-0666-1429
PS4 Thing: TBA

Octane

@Heavyarms55 I mean, the walking/running animations even exist in the code for Sun and Moon; they've done more than they needed to.

Maybe it's less work because they don't have to go back and review the movesets, add new egg moves, TM compatibility, etc. If they can just forget about a good amount of them, it saves them a little time I guess. Or maybe it is to not overwhelm new players.

To be fair, I don't really mind it. I've always said that they can't keep this going forever. I want new Pokemon more than anything, cause they're the most exciting part of new games, but they're getting close to a 1000 of the little buggers at this point. The only thing I'm not a fan of is how some make it into nearly every game, whereas other don't. I'm sick of Lucario at this point

Octane

Yorumi

When it comes to balance gamefreak gets no credit for "trying" either. Even if we say they're balancing for doubles in VGC rules there's still no real evidence of them actually balancing anything. I get that achieving perfect world championship balance is impossible, that's not what I'm knocking them for. They don't even try to make most fully evolved pokemon viable for endgame(the vgc style battles against the AI, battle tree in sun/moon for example). Think of how many pokemon have languished for decade without viable movepools, decent stats, or good abilities.

One of them that's close to my heart because I love them is the eevees. Flareon only ever had flame thrower as an attack and nothing else. When he became more physical they gave him flare blitz(I think, sorry if my memory is off on the names) which is utter suicide. Leafeon and Glaceon have never once been usable since they day they were introduced. Their movepools are so shallow you can't even realistically give them 4 usable moves. Glaceon is really sad because Vaporeon already learned Ice Beam so the day he was introduced there was already a better glaceon in pokemon. I'm pretty sure today there's not one viable eevee anymore.

The is not just true of eevee though. The majority, in fact the vast majority of fully evolved pokemon are not endgame viable. Occasionally one gets to move up temporarily thanks to a new gimmick but it's usually short lived. We're just counting fully evolved pokemon and even then they don't even try to make half of them viable. Items like eviolite and light ball actually suggest lower evolutions could be balanced for viability as well.

This balance failure is not due to any form of failure to cope with an ever expanding roster but a total lack of any effort. As I said pokemon like Leafeon and Glaceon have never been viable ever and those pokemon are more than a decade old. Is it really too much to ask of gamefreak to take the most minimalistic of steps to add a few more usable moves? They can't even be bothered to make all pokemon fun to use.

So as far as I'm concerned any excuse that points to balance is BS. Gamefreak hasn't even tried to balance the game ever. They don't get to say we're doing this for balance reasons when they've never actually tried to balance the game in the first place.

Edited on by Yorumi

Yorumi

Nintendo Network ID: yorumi

Octane

@Yorumi Yeah, you're 100% right on that one. I don't think the solution is boosting less viable Pokemon however. Nerf the good ones. I know it's unpopular, but that makes just as much sense.

Most water types learn Ice Beam, and considering Ice is a defensive wreck, there's no point going with an ice type when most water types do everything better. I don't think it makes sense for all the tropical water types to learn ice beam, get rid of those ice moves and give people a reason to use ice Pokemon. Another example is Toxic. Why can every single Pokemon learn that move? Did they all grow venom glands? If it was exclusive to most poison types and a handful of other Pokemon that made sense, it would give people a reason to use poison types over something else.

Basically, the smaller their move pools are, the less overlap there is between Pokemon, allowing for more unique movepool + ability combos. It's just silly if you look at the list of moves that any random Pokemon can learn. Most of them don't even make sense!

And Zangoose still can't learn Cut...

Octane

-Green-

Glaceon also just has the displeasure of suffering from Gamefreaks complete confusion as to what they want Ice Types to be. They continuously try to make them either glass cannons or defensive walls, the latter in the case of Glaceon, but it’s lackluster if not terrible at both.

Ice type really is just the worst typing in the game atm. Even with something as crazy strong (on paper) as Aurora Veil (which they purposefully gave best to Alolan Ninetalea) the typing is pretty bad overall.

"Enthusiastic Hi" (awkward stare)
Nintendo Switch Code: SW-5081-0666-1429
PS4 Thing: TBA

Heavyarms55

@Octane I mean it's not a deal breaker for me, but it is a bummer. I was so pumped for the game that I was gonna buy the special edition double pack. But now that excitement has been tempered down quite a lot and I'm just gonna pick up a normal copy.

Personally I don't buy the "overwhelm new players" argument at all. I just flat out don't accept it as valid. Collecting them all has always been apart of Pokemon and never before has it been easier to get information on them. And the egg move/TM compatibility thing just sounds remarkably lazy. Something a rom hacker could do in an afternoon. For a company like GF it is probably one of the easiest things to program and decide upon.

I am a little salty but overall I can live with it and am still looking forward to the games... just not as much as I was. Regardless of anything else, this announcement should have been in the Pokemon Direct, not an afterthought in the Treehouse. It was very misleading. We all saw the Direct and the previous videos showing off Pokemon from across the eras, anyone would assume a full National Pokedex to be compatible. Certainly not obtainable in-game, but compatible via Bank/Home. But they didn't tell us until the Treehouse event, which between the Pokemon Direct, E3 and the Treehouse, I suspect Treehouse to easily be the least watched segment.

Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
Discord: Heavyarms55#1475
Pokemon Go FC: 3838 2595 7596
PSN: Heavyarms55zx
Feel free to add me

Top

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic