But another point, are achievements really optional? Maybe getting all the achievements in a game is optional but if you want to play a game you are almost forced to get achievements at some point. Plenty of games have achievements just for progressing through a game. So getting achievements isn't really optional, just getting them all is. Are there games when I can play through the entire game without getting a single Achievement?
And yet the silly stamps in 3D World and Mario Kart don't give a "false sense of accomplishment"? What makes it so false? IMO, if the individual doesn't feel like they wasted their time, then it's far from a false sense. And since they're optional, they really shouldn't bother anyone.
Where did I say the stamps didn't give a false sense of accomplishment and what makes them sillier than most achievements? What I meant by false sense of accomplishment is that many "achievements" can be boiled down to "play game a lot" and if I'm not mistaken there are literally achievements for playing a game over a certain number of hours. I would actually like Nintendo to put more achievements/challenges in games like 3D World and Mario Kart and I think they would work great in Star Fox Zero but they should not make a console wide achievement system because developers shouldn't be forced to put them in every game.
But another point, are achievements really optional? Maybe getting all the achievements in a game is optional but if you want to play a game you are almost forced to get achievements at some point. Plenty of games have achievements just for progressing through a game. So getting achievements isn't really optional, just getting them all is. Are there games when I can play through the entire game without getting a single Achievement?
Yes, playing the game is kinda optional. Also they occasionally award achievements/trophies for playing badly. I remember early in the game screwing around in Little Big Planet 2 being basically a dumbbutt and got an achievement for "die 20 times". http://www.playstationtrophies.org/game/littlebigplanet-2/tro...
But another point, are achievements really optional? Maybe getting all the achievements in a game is optional but if you want to play a game you are almost forced to get achievements at some point. Plenty of games have achievements just for progressing through a game. So getting achievements isn't really optional, just getting them all is. Are there games when I can play through the entire game without getting a single Achievement?
Yes, playing the game is kinda optional. Also they occasionally award achievements/trophies for playing badly. I remember early in the game screwing around in Little Big Planet 2 being basically a dumbbutt and got an achievement for "die 20 times". http://www.playstationtrophies.org/game/littlebigplanet-2/tro...
So the only way to get around the use of achievements, is not to play those games?
This is the whole problem being discussed, if achievements should be included in all games (as they are on certain platforms). You are saying just don't play those games, like that some how fixes the problem? Wouldn't it make a ton more sense to make such an extraneous feature truly optional?
3D World's stamps aren't so much achievements as they are an extra collectible. Achievements are more challenges and conditions you need to complete instead of something you just find in the levels. The cameras from DKC 1 and 2 and Skill Points in Spyro 2 and Year of the Dragon are better examples of an in game achievement system, most of them are obtained by completing bonus objectives that you normally wouldn't be rewarded for.
God no, achievements are probably the feature I like the least on Steam. There are always some ridiculous ones that prevent me from 100 % a game. Don't want that sort of thing on Nintendo. Besides, collecting Miiverse stamps is much more interesting.
@DefHalan
You typed, "They are not system wide/mandatory achievements." And then that you have no issue with Steam achievements.
NO achievements are mandatory. Your entire argument is defunct.
P.S. - Steam achievements are IDENTICAL to Xbox achievements on many cross-platform games. IDENTICAL.
You're expressing YOUR opinion, alright, which you have every right to, but you sure are expressing some nonsensical and ill-informed opinions.
What. Is. This.
?? Can't tell if you're just being a jerk, or if you honestly can't parse out what I'm saying. Let me simplify by quoting myself: "NO achievements are mandatory."
No matter what system you play on, what games you choose to play, and who you are, you are never required to obtain achievements. Never. And since most of the "anti achievement" people in this thread are basing their argument off the supposed "necessity" that, simply because an achievement system exists, they MUST try to get them, their arguments are all defunct. Problems of achievement addiction/"epeen" negativity etc. are all personal problems that should have no bearing on the fact that your participation in/viewing of all current achievement systems is optional.
@rallydefault: Maybe you should read more, rather than latching onto single sentences and attacking them. I made it pretty clear that I was speaking from a developer point of view when I said mandatory. Also gaining achievements is not optional, if you complete the task for an achievement you have to accept that achievement. What is optional is playing the game but as I have said, I don't want to be forced to stop playing Nintendo games because of some mandatory (as in the developer is required to implement them) achievement list.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan
I'm pretty sure this isn't an achievement system at all, but rather a score-sharing system. It has nothing to do with achievements at all, and that's for the best.
?? Can't tell if you're just being a jerk, or if you honestly can't parse out what I'm saying. Let me simplify by quoting myself: "NO achievements are mandatory."
No matter what system you play on, what games you choose to play, and who you are, you are never required to obtain achievements. Never. And since most of the "anti achievement" people in this thread are basing their argument off the supposed "necessity" that, simply because an achievement system exists, they MUST try to get them, their arguments are all defunct. Problems of achievement addiction/"epeen" negativity etc. are all personal problems that should have no bearing on the fact that your participation in/viewing of all current achievement systems is optional.
Is.That.Simple.Enough.For.You?
I don't feel like we are communicating, but then it's not an issue that evokes much passion from me either.
Like defhalan explained, and I tried to mention above... getting achievements is a simple matter of playing a game. Whether you directly look for opportunities to earn them or they're granted accidentally by achieving certain milestones, they are often a reality of today's gaming. Ironically the people extolling the virtues of achievements don't seem familiar with their common usage.
I don't see the big issue. Occasionally when playing a game, you get a popup notification, and that's about it. You can view achievements/trophies of people on your friends list and compare them to yours, but I imagine there is a privacy setting to hide these from view.
It's no different from collecting Miiverse stamps in Super Mario 3D World or figure trophies in Smash, except trophies/achievements are system-wide settings saved to your profile account instead of locally stored in-game. But the fact they exist shouldn't deter you from playing games. Nintendo needs to get with the times already.
Many indie games on Nintendo platforms already have an in game achievements menu identical to to those available on other platforms, but is not tied to your account. If Nintendo adds achievements to the NX, I think that would be great. Just keep them out of VC games since they were never designed with achiebements in mind.
But another point, are achievements really optional? Maybe getting all the achievements in a game is optional but if you want to play a game you are almost forced to get achievements at some point. Plenty of games have achievements just for progressing through a game. So getting achievements isn't really optional, just getting them all is. Are there games when I can play through the entire game without getting a single Achievement?
Yes, playing the game is kinda optional. Also they occasionally award achievements/trophies for playing badly. I remember early in the game screwing around in Little Big Planet 2 being basically a dumbbutt and got an achievement for "die 20 times". http://www.playstationtrophies.org/game/littlebigplanet-2/tro...
So the only way to get around the use of achievements, is not to play those games?
This is the whole problem being discussed, if achievements should be included in all games (as they are on certain platforms). You are saying just don't play those games, like that some how fixes the problem? Wouldn't it make a ton more sense to make such an extraneous feature truly optional?
An important point to address is that making it optional for developers won't solve the problem of developers shoe-horning random achievements that don't make sense. If Nintendo makes a good enough achievement-sharing system, I'm sure there will be a number of players who will get really into it, and not buy games that don't have achievements in them. There's still that pressure on developers, a pressure that's easily remedied by putting in random achievements without much thought. So therefore, in my opinion, making it optional for developers wouldn't encourage anyone not to use them.
But another point, are achievements really optional? Maybe getting all the achievements in a game is optional but if you want to play a game you are almost forced to get achievements at some point. Plenty of games have achievements just for progressing through a game. So getting achievements isn't really optional, just getting them all is. Are there games when I can play through the entire game without getting a single Achievement?
Yes, playing the game is kinda optional. Also they occasionally award achievements/trophies for playing badly. I remember early in the game screwing around in Little Big Planet 2 being basically a dumbbutt and got an achievement for "die 20 times". http://www.playstationtrophies.org/game/littlebigplanet-2/tro...
So the only way to get around the use of achievements, is not to play those games?
This is the whole problem being discussed, if achievements should be included in all games (as they are on certain platforms). You are saying just don't play those games, like that some how fixes the problem? Wouldn't it make a ton more sense to make such an extraneous feature truly optional?
An important point to address is that making it optional for developers won't solve the problem of developers shoe-horning random achievements that don't make sense. If Nintendo makes a good enough achievement-sharing system, I'm sure there will be a number of players who will get really into it, and not buy games that don't have achievements in them. There's still that pressure on developers, a pressure that's easily remedied by putting in random achievements without much thought. So therefore, in my opinion, making it optional for developers wouldn't encourage anyone not to use them.
Regardless, having options is a good thing. I don't see what the fuss is. Some people want achievements, some don't, but gamers have the option of having fun with them or ignoring them alltogether. I don't see the butthurt over certain games or platforms having global achievements or not. And it's something many devs would support. Tons of indie eShop games have achievements already; they just tie to the save file instead of to your account. Also nintendo is already implementing achievements. They've always been in Smash Bros as trophies, and various Wii-U games get exclusive stamps that you can use to brag on Miiverse.
Just please don't add achievements to VC games. I don't want an award for "found the secret warp zone" or "stomp 100 goombas" or "hopped on a Koopa's shell ten times" or rescuing toad, ie "princess is in another castle"...
@StarDust4Ever: So you don't want achievements shoehorned into VC games but you do want them in their modern entries? Makes a lot of sense...
Apples to Oranges to Bananas. Because those achievements did not exist on the original platform and the developers never intended such feature to be implemented. I'm all for achievements in modern games however as it adds replay value and braggiing rights. If you don't like it, just play the game and ignore the occasional popup.
@StarDust4Ever: So you don't want achievements shoehorned into VC games but you do want them in their modern entries? Makes a lot of sense...
Apples to Oranges to Bananas. Because those achievements did not exist on the original platform and the developers never intended such feature to be implemented. I'm all for achievements in modern games however as it adds replay value and braggiing rights. If you don't like it, just play the game and ignore the occasional popup.
Putting achievements into the future Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, or many other Nintendo franchises is no different than shoehorning them into their previous entries. As I said earlier, I am fine with achievements/challenges in many games and wouldn't mind if there were more in them but since they have no purpose in others, Nintendo should not make a console wide achievement system. Doing so would force them in the franchises I mentioned and would make developers fundamentally change them to incorporate non-worthless achievements.
Achievements are great for personal satisfaction or to provide an extra challenge to extend the replay factor of a game. Is it truly an "achievement" that can help you in real life? Not really. Is it required to beat the game? Nope. Should they be in every flipping game in existence? I hope not. To each their own.
"When expecting booby traps, always send the boob in first." -Megatron-
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