@rallydefault: If I remember, the use of the word mandatory in this conversation was originally used for the developers, not the players, and there was a misunderstanding about what was meant by that. Regardless, we've arrived here now, and we might as well talk about it.
To use your McDonald's metaphor: yes, you can always ignore the McDonald's, but that didn't stop the fact that you have to pass the McDonald's every day on the way to work. McDonald's has every right to build one there, but you also have every right to complain about having to exercise a new routine of willpower every single day.
Advertisements are optional. Of course you don't have to run off and buy something every time JC Penny's shows off their jeans, but don't most people prefer to go to the movies and get all of the ads out of the way in the beginning, rather than watch it on ABC and get interrupted every 15 minutes? Isn't it generally preferred that when you go on a nature walk, you don't see giant billboards for NIPSCO or anti-parental abuse agencies?
The tl;dr version is that something can be "optional" and "a mild disturbance" at the same time.
I hope they still retain things like smash's challenges. I don't really care about achievements so I prefer getting something like a trophy or whatever over just the extra score on my account. It wouldn't really matter overall but it would be kinda lane to lose those things.
I just play the game and enjoy it. If I unlock stuff along the way, so be it. Sometimes I'll put a bit of extra effort to unlock a specific achievement, but I don't go out of my way busting my butt to unlock every achievement as early as possible. Many of them unlock naturally. Say for instance there is an achievement for "slay 1000 wild beasts". Well I could start into the beginning area of the game with my default non-upgraded sword and start killing beasts, and struggling to do it, and maybe after 9 hours of grinding, unlock the achievement. Meanwhile, I've earned a frivolous achievement and made little progress into the main quest of the game. Instead, chances are if I just ignored trying to get the "slay 1000 wild beasts" achievement off the bat and just started working on my quest, I would advance in rank to the point where I could kill them easy with one hit of my leveled up sword. And as I traverse the landscape back and forth during the progression of my quest, there is a very real possibility that I will slay the 1000 aforementioned beasts without even trying. So instead of wasting 9 hours slaying beasts to get a crappy award that means nothing, and not really having fun doing it, I play the game and enjoy it for playing it and about 3/4 of the way through my quest, a popup appears that I have earned the trophy "slay 1000 wild beasts." Without even trying or going out of my way to earn it. It's simply a milestone marker that nearly everyone passes during their quest.
What I do have a slight issue with is designers that include time-limited tasks where a specific set of conditions is necessary to earn the reward. After the window of opportunity has passed, you have missed it and the only way to gain it is to start a new quest. 3D Dot Heroes for the PS3 was a brilliant Zelda inspired game that I thoroughly enjoyed, yet there are many instances of items or side-quests in the game that require you to talk to certain NPCs at specific intervals during the game, and if you miss speaking to one of them between dungeons, you have missed the opportunity to finish the event thus making the game impossible to 100% without starting over. Not that bothers me as I rarely 100% games (although I often come close), but suppose you reach the 5th dungeon and wonder why you haven't found some elusive sword or other collectible, only to realise that you forgot to talk to an NPC on some obscure part of the world map between the 2nd and 3rd dungeons, changing the chain of events later in the game in such a way that it is inaccessible and you cannot rewind time to get it. Good news is it adds tons of replayability for second quests, etc...
I always try to view the glass half full when it comes to these things. If you rage quit the game and never touch it again because you'll never get the coveted platinum trophy without starting over, then maybe you should question why you were plyaing in the first place.
NoE's Club Nintendo used to have it's own achievement system in the GC & GBA era. You had your online profile that you could register games too which gave you stars to redeem and all that, but there was also a system where you would receive a little graphic for your profile for things like "registering X GC games", "Registerring a game on day of release", "Registerring X Kirby titles" etc.
They didn't use it properly though, Club Nintendo was even more of a shambles back then and they scrapped it. Other has done similar things earlier too, it's not something Nintendo created by any means but it wouldn't be new to them. People can complain they're not needed, and that's true, or that some devs are lazy with them and don't implement them properly, also true but then that just shows up the dev in question, but they do add something. Whatever you might say to it, there are people that stick with the Xbox or Playstation brand because they've built up a big profile there and they don't want to loose that. That's valuable! That's something Nintendo needs. And really what harm will it do you? You get an online profile that shows people you managed to do a cool or difficult thing in a game (and you can hide certain games if you're embarrassed)? Oh no? Now everyone will know you collected all the Wonderful Ones in The Wonderful 101 or beat all the staff time trials in Mario Kart 8! The horror! Unless you're worried they'll know you didn't? In which case, you need to relax because nobody cares what you didn't achieve.
Achievements are fun, optional extras that celebrate how awesome you are and help people feel invested in the brand. Don't like them, don't look at them. Turn of the notifications and hide them from your profile. Problem solved.
@rallydefault: If I remember, the use of the word mandatory in this conversation was originally used for the developers, not the players, and there was a misunderstanding about what was meant by that. Regardless, we've arrived here now, and we might as well talk about it.
To use your McDonald's metaphor: yes, you can always ignore the McDonald's, but that didn't stop the fact that you have to pass the McDonald's every day on the way to work. McDonald's has every right to build one there, but you also have every right to complain about having to exercise a new routine of willpower every single day.
Advertisements are optional. Of course you don't have to run off and buy something every time JC Penny's shows off their jeans, but don't most people prefer to go to the movies and get all of the ads out of the way in the beginning, rather than watch it on ABC and get interrupted every 15 minutes? Isn't it generally preferred that when you go on a nature walk, you don't see giant billboards for NIPSCO or anti-parental abuse agencies?
The tl;dr version is that something can be "optional" and "a mild disturbance" at the same time.
Hey, yea - you can complain all you want. Gosh knows that's what people seem to be getting more and more excellent at with the advent of social media and the proverbial "internet megaphone."
But that shouldn't dissuade Nintendo from implementing an optional system that appeals to many, if not a majority head and shoulders.
P.S. - I don't really have the time to look back in the thread to look up the root of the word "mandatory" as used in this discussion, but I can tell you that someone recently responded to one of my posts trying to directly attribute the word to achievements in currently existing achievement systems.
@shaneoh
As for you, I can't make you see "meaning" in my posts if you don't want to.
Achievements in current achievement systems aren't mandatory.
That's how they're not mandatory.
@shaneoh
As for you, I can't make you see "meaning" in my posts if you don't want to.
Achievements in current achievement systems aren't mandatory.
That's how they're not mandatory.
Mandatory = compulsory
compulsory = required
By starting up Universal Sandbox I was required to participate in their achievement system, whether I wanted to or not. Even if I go no further with it, it's there saying that I tried to take part (whether I wanted to or not) as well as saying in Steam that I haven't "completed" the software because I haven't got all the achievements. The reason I can't see "meaning" in your posts is because there is none to be had, you're not responding to arguments contrary to your opinion with anything meaningful. Edit: or should I say coherent?
@shaneoh
As for you, I can't make you see "meaning" in my posts if you don't want to.
Achievements in current achievement systems aren't mandatory.
That's how they're not mandatory.
Mandatory = compulsory
compulsory = required
By starting up Universal Sandbox I was required to participate in their achievement system, whether I wanted to or not. Even if I go no further with it, it's there saying that I tried to take part (whether I wanted to or not) as well as saying in Steam that I haven't "completed" the software because I haven't got all the achievements. The reason I can't see "meaning" in your posts is because there is none to be had, you're not responding to arguments contrary to your opinion with anything meaningful. Edit: or should I say coherent?
Who the heck cares if you finished or completed your games 100% or not? Just play the game and ignore the achievement system if it's not your forte. Just have fun and stop comparing your progress to others on your friend list.
@shaneoh
As for you, I can't make you see "meaning" in my posts if you don't want to.
Achievements in current achievement systems aren't mandatory.
That's how they're not mandatory.
Mandatory = compulsory
compulsory = required
By starting up Universal Sandbox I was required to participate in their achievement system, whether I wanted to or not. Even if I go no further with it, it's there saying that I tried to take part (whether I wanted to or not) as well as saying in Steam that I haven't "completed" the software because I haven't got all the achievements. The reason I can't see "meaning" in your posts is because there is none to be had, you're not responding to arguments contrary to your opinion with anything meaningful. Edit: or should I say coherent?
Who the heck cares if you finished or completed your games 100% or not? Just play the game and ignore the achievement system if it's not your forte. Just have fun and stop comparing your progress to others on your friend list.
You're assuming I'm comparing myself to other people, I'm not. And like I've said earlier, it doesn't help that it's shoved in my face when I'm playing.
^That's where this argument is going. I feel like I properly defended the side I needed to, so I'm backing out of this argument before it gets too hot. To be honest, Nintendo probably should adopt the achievement system, if it is indeed true that there are more people who would enjoy it than those who wouldn't. But if people have complaints about it, there's nothing wrong with them vocalizing their complaints in a reasonable manner, and that's why I decided to give my two cents on the matter.
^That's where this argument is going. I feel like I properly defended the side I needed to, so I'm backing out of this argument before it gets too hot. To be honest, Nintendo probably should adopt the achievement system, if it is indeed true that there are more people who would enjoy it than those who wouldn't. But if people have complaints about it, there's nothing wrong with them vocalizing their complaints in a reasonable manner, and that's why I decided to give my two cents on the matter.
Posts like these is why Nintendolife needs a "like" button.
^That's where this argument is going. I feel like I properly defended the side I needed to, so I'm backing out of this argument before it gets too hot. To be honest, Nintendo probably should adopt the achievement system, if it is indeed true that there are more people who would enjoy it than those who wouldn't. But if people have complaints about it, there's nothing wrong with them vocalizing their complaints in a reasonable manner, and that's why I decided to give my two cents on the matter.
Everything you said is entirely correct. Just keep your "but" in perspective - it also applies to the people defending achievements. They, too, have every right to vocalize their support in a reasonable manner, and what's why I (emphasis) decided to give my two cents on the matter.
wow what is this thread lol. achievements are the most pointless things imaginable. complete the game, there's your achievement, do it again on hard mode. achievements are for noobs to make them feel like they accomplished something in a game that actually has nothing.. why do you need a pop up box in the corner to say "yay you did this!!!" i don't get it
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