Echoes is pretty much ALttP: Metroid edition. That being said, it was actually enjoyable. The main difference between Echoes and ALttP is that the Dark World in Echoes actually hurts you and you have to take a different approach to exploring the Dark World, relying heavily on light beacons that can heal you.
And yeah, Magmoor Caverns was annoying in Prime 1. Mainly because there was no shortcut around it to get to and from Phendrana and everytime you had to backtrack between Tallon Overworld/Chozo Ruins and Phendrana (which is quite a lot actually) you had to go through the area all over again. At least Echoes has several shortcuts and a fast travel method once you get the final powerup in the game.
@Bolt_Strike I almost never use the Light Suit's warp function because it requires you to venture to the relatively out-of-the way temples. And sit through loading screens due to those weird bomb-slots for some reason. Aether is also much better structured for ease of travel: one central area and three main ones, with elevators linking all of them.
That said, Samus Returns seems set to take fast-travelling to the next level.
It'll be fun to come back to the beginning pages of this thread, and seeing what we were thinking when all we had to go on was a logo. I did that with the Zelda thread. It's cool to see what we thought would be in the game versus what we got
Wouldn't surprise me if "Prime 4" is just a place-holder name, only because they wanted to give the message: We are really working on a proper Metroid this time. Could have a entirely different story in a different timeframe. But we'll see.
However, I hope Nintendo isn't to harsh to Next Level games. Okay Federation force wasn't what we wanted and thus sold very badly, but it was Nintendo who gave the order for that game. The team DOES have talent, Punch Out Wii was great. As was Luigi's mansion 2. Hopefully they get to make a new Luigi's mansion for Switch someday.
@Henmii Very true, but we can make a few educated guesses:
Since the game will most probably revolve around Sylux, it has to take place after Hunters, so it'll be placed after Prime at the very least. Tanabe decided to sequel-bait both Corruption and Federation Force (which takes place after Corruption) with Sylux, so it makes sense for this game to be the last game in the Prime chronology.
I think Metroid Prime and Pokémon main-RPG are the best Nintendo candidates for another openworld experience.
It would be a massive accomplishment for the series to be more sandboxy and explorable.
@SKTTR Pokémon, I kind of see it. Prime, not really. You make it open world and the core concept of the games goes flying though the window. Open-world design is at odds with the environmental barriers present in metroidvania titles, the whole point of these games is to not be able to go everywhere from the get-go.
Besides, we have enough games featuring an open-world already and we just got an excellent one with Breath of the Wild. Please, make it stop.
@MarcelRguez I'd say Other M was pretty open, maybe not an open world like Zelda is, but the idea of back traveling and exploration have always been important to the Metroid formula. I don't want the ''go anywhere'' open world, but I wouldn't mind being able to travel back to every single location I visited in the game.
@MarcelRguez I understand your point but I disagree. Breath of the Wild has a few environmental barriers that stop you from going just anywhere at the very beginning and must overcome by obtaining new equipment (like the waterfalls and the rain in Zora's domain).
Infact those environmental barriers are soft barriers - a key feature of the platonic ideal of a Metroid game. You can climb a BoTW mountain in the rain if you're determined enough just like you can wall jump over a barrier before you have the high jump boots or run through the super hot caves before you have the Varia suit in Super Metroid if you're determined enough. It's one of the reasons why BoTW felt so much like a Metroid game to me.
To me the pattern laid out in BoTW is, in many ways, a more natural evolution of the Metroid formula than it is of the (very similar) Zelda formula.
If Metroid Prime 4 were to model itself on BoTW I'd be delighted - I hope they take the series in that direction. Of course I'm delighted anyway! Metroid is coming back - the only one in the series that's not completely great is Metroid II*.
*The game(s) you may be thinking about that might contradict that statement didn't really happen. You imagined them. They were a bad dream and now you're awake!
Pokémon, I kind of see it. Prime, not really. You make it open world and the core concept of the games goes flying though the window. Open-world design is at odds with the environmental barriers present in metroidvania titles, the whole point of these games is to not be able to go everywhere from the get-go.
Besides, we have enough games featuring an open-world already and we just got an excellent one with Breath of the Wild. Please, make it stop.
Open world design just absolutely decimated Zelda's metroidvanian elements in Breath of the Wild, so I don't think it's a good choice for Metroid, lol. And any big change would make Pokemon more interesting, not just moar LAND.
Metroid Prime had the best sequence breaks (if you had the earliest release of the game possible). Space Jump Boots first, anyone? How about the Plasma Beam before Thardus (who is actually weak to it)?
Everything is weak to the Plasma Beam, color-coded immunities aside. Magmoors, the one thing that "resists" it, is still taken out by it more quickly than most other weapons.
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Yes, if it follows the Prime games then it may be about Sylux. But as I mentioned before it may also be a totally different story set much later (or earlier). Keep in mind that Nintendo is not really story-minded, and that this game is (presumably) made inhouse by Nintendo. Ah well, we wait and see.
@Octane I don't get your example. Other M is quite literally the least 'open' of the 3D titles, if not of all Metroid titles. It shuts entire sections behind you for story purposes. You can travel back to every location, eventually, but you can also do that in every other title.
@StuTwo Once you leave the Plateau area, I'm pretty sure you can reach every area of the game one way or another, including those waterfalls you mention. Breath of the Wild doesn't require you to go to a specific location and get a specific power-up to overcome a specific barrier: it's highly systemic and it encourages improvisation. Metroid is not only defined by soft barriers, hard locks are necessary as well to maintain some sequential order (i.e., the statues blocking Tourian in the 2D titles).
To me the pattern laid out in BoTW is, in many ways, a more natural evolution of the Metroid formula than it is of the (very similar) Zelda formula.
I disagree. I see BotW as a very clear back-to-basics experiment, and the similarities between the game and the Metroid series stems from Metroid being born out of the "Zelda, but with Mario's side-scrolling platforming" idea. I'd say it's a byproduct of placing the focus on exploration again (which is fundamental to both series, but overlooked in more recent Zelda titles). In that sense, I agree that they are sister series; however, I think that to conflate them to that degree is a disservice to what makes them stand out as their own entities.
To point out one such differences: imagine if BotW had a clearer sequential order to follow in terms of what village you visit first, what Divine Beast you solve, etc. If that were the case, there would be no executional barrier required to sequence break it: you'd just take a detour and go through the motions until you hit the next village. In Metroid's case, there's a certain degree of complexity to things like mono-wall-jumping or bomb-jumping tricks. Maybe not a lot of people think of these as the main appeal of the series, but some others like myself do. I haven't found anything similar to that in BotW, especially as far as exploration is concerned.
There are many other features and core traits that would have to be heavily retooled for such a template to work with Metroid. I found BotW's character progression rather weak, for example, and that's a staple of the metroidvania genre. I also can't see the claustrophobic atmosphere of the Prime series working on a completely open environment.
@Haru17 Yeah, I agree. Older 3D Zeldas like Ocarina still feel more Metroid than BotW to me, I'm actually a bit surprised by the suggestion.
@MarcelRguez There are a handful of "hard locks" in BoTW. Entering all of the divine beasts requires you to go through a quest sequence and talk to an NPC. I tried to jump onto the Zora divine beast and found out about the force field the hard way.
That a Metriod "BoTW" would work a bit differently, emphasise different things, add in a few more "hard" barriers and require a lot of careful thought and hard work is something that I don't think is in any question. How exactly they'd manage it all I don't know - but it is possible and Nintendo's designers are some of the best in the business.
I do think that the true non-linearity of BoTW is a natural development of the pattern laid out by A Link To The Past (a modified version of which underpined Super Metroid which is what all Metroid games have been since). I think it would work especially well for Metroid because the soft barriers have always promoted the idea that you could potentially approach the game in any sequence you'd like (even if they're actually designed to be played in a linear way).
Yeah, because it's an "open world" game doesn't mean
there must be lots of vast empty areas
you should be able to climb any wall and any hill and have everything open at any time.
it's automatically a survival simulation where you need to collect and craft stuff
In a game like Metroid it's about the feels, what can an open world do to immerse the player, to make him feel even more claustrophobic in some places, to make the world even more explorable, interesting, and dangerous in other places.
Breath of the Wild is great, but it's not perfect. The next open-world Zelda learned plenty from BotW's little misses. I assume the same for Metroid Prime 4 (if it goes openworld). It may not be perfect on its first try, but it will be great! Probably much greater and with much more impact than the other Primes.
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