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Topic: Metroid Prime 4: The Long(er) Wait

Posts 721 to 740 of 747

EvilLucario

@JackEatsSparrows No. Actually, you could say it's harder to sequence break the Prime games like you can in Super Metroid and Zero Mission. It's possible, but all unintentional like ghetto jumping to get the Plasma Beam early. There's a more set direction of item acquisition in Prime than Super Metroid and Zero Mission.

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link3710

@EvilLucario I'll be honest, I don't use Hypermode when I play Prime 3. It always felt like cheating.

link3710

Grumblevolcano

I used Hypermode on Prime 3 but I've only played Prime 3 once and that was like 10 years ago. The game's fine but nowhere near as good as 1 and 2. If Prime Trilogy does happen for Switch and they get rid of that stupid friend voucher system I'll probably replay all 3 rather than just 1 and 2.

Grumblevolcano

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EvilLucario

@link3710 That's mostly because Hypermode was a last-minute addition that ruined a lot of the combat balance. They tried to mitigate it by having enemies that could also use Hypermode, but all that did was incentivize you to use Hypermode anyway since trying to kill them without Hypermode takes an ungodly amount of time, especially in the Pirate Homeworld.

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kkslider5552000

I'll be honest, I have no memory of hypermode breaking the game, maybe you all just played it wrong :V

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SKTTR

Back in 1986 Zelda 1 and Metroid 1 both were technically just "action-adventures".
Zelda was a topdown fantasy action-adventure, Metroid was a sidescrolling sci-fi action-adventure.

The exact same genre, played from a different perspective (and with an opposite theme) to make them look like two very different games when in reality they share the same gameplay mechanics: Both had huge open spaces to traverse through from the get-go and both had many places that you were locked out of until you got a bunch of permanent items.

Zelda 3 and Metroid 3 share even more obvious parallels, being redefined. They both became less openworldy and more structured, but they still allowed plenty of paths to branch out to have the player go his own way for the most part. The metroidvania spirit was on its peak, the metroidvania gameplay was perfected. The metroidvania genre was born. But it was just action-adventure, topdown and sidescrolling, and it had no name until years later when someone from Konami used the Zelda 3/Metroid 3 gameplay mechanics and applied them to one of their Castlevania games.

Metroid Prime is a series that always showed some impressive graphics. An openworld-overworld alien planet that could impress the people. And then separate dungeons that lead into the planet or into space that would please the fans. It could work if you allow the game to have the best of both worlds.

One huge open world area in Metroid Prime 4 would make the game feel bigger and better and would open it up for a new audience that wasn't interested before. The open world should be only an addition though. I don't want Metroid to lose its claustrophobic underground areas or anything else that made the game iconic. The new direction should only add something that wasn't there before. It has to keep the old goods.

If you ask me what studio's able to do openworld Metroid justice, I'd give all my trust to Monolithsoft. They know how to design openworld alien planets and giant roaming alien beasts.

Edited on by SKTTR

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Dezzy

No idea what exactly you're arguing about. But if it's about making Metroid open-world, I think that would be a terrible idea.

Metroid has such a focused game loop, it depends on calculated pacing so the distance between each new power is fairly constant. It's also a fairly one-note experience. There isn't much in the way of a series of different objectives. It's mostly just the 1 mission. That wouldn't translate to an open-world game very well. Open-worlds need to have a range of objectives in order to make exploration make sense (because a range of objectives gives you more destinations to head to).

Unless by "open-world", you just mean slightly wider open areas and fewer repetitive corridors. That would be fine. I think those were mostly to allow dynamic loading on the heavily restricted hardware.

Edited on by Dezzy

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Zkibu

@JackEatsSparrows I guess one can say it's openworldish. Especially later on. One of my points was that perhaps it would be wise to remove artificial blocks that don't make sense (animals don't use doors). That could actually help to make the game more immersive.

@SKTTR Thanks you said it much better than me. Maybe sometimes you just have pictured everything that you are going to write in your head, but then it doesn't translate that well on the keyboard. Monolith would be interesting, I mean they are really good at creating surreal looking places and creatures. however I have my doubts how well they could change the gameplay of JRPG to FPA and anime style to more western look. Retro's advantage is probably that they need to deliver this time and really well. That sort of pressure might drive them do great things.

Zkibu

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judaspete

Using Zelda as an analogy with Prime 1 being OoT , what type of sequel to you want Prime 4 to be?

-Twilight Princess: Bigger and prettier, but essentially the same.
-BotW: Huge and expansive update to bring the franchise in line with modern AAA design.
-Majora's Mask: Smaller in scope and scale but with a compelling new gameplay hook to make it feel more immersive.

I could see any one of these being cool, but with the troubled development it might make the most sense to go with the Twilight Princess approach. It's already been 10 years since Corruption, so this wouldn't really feel stale. More like a throwback.

judaspete

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link3710

@judaspete I'd probably prefer Majora's Mask, but honestly a TP approach would be fine. I'd personally rather not see a BotW style reinvention here. Unlike traditional 3D Zelda, Metroid Prime doesn't have any competitors I can use as alternatives to get similar gameplay experiences, and I've already played the first 3 to death.

link3710

SKTTR

Zkibu wrote:

Monolith would be interesting, I mean they are really good at creating surreal looking places and creatures. however I have my doubts how well they could change the gameplay of JRPG to FPA and anime style to more western look. Retro's advantage is probably that they need to deliver this time and really well. That sort of pressure might drive them do great things.

After finishing development for Xenoblade 2, Monolith added experienced action game developers to their staff for their next giant project.

Also, they are not inexperienced in making games with an art style similar to Metroid (Xenoblade X) or action games with a western setting (Disaster: Day of Crisis).
For me though, a Western look is not neccessary for the Metroid series. It needs the look and interpretations of alien settings, styles, and worlds, not western or eastern.

@judaspete

I would say BotW,
because Twilight Princess is what we got with Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. A bigger and better and creepier game, right down to the light and dark theme.
And Majora's Mask could almost be Metroid Prime Hunters. Smaller in scale, re-using old assets, and both games use time in an interesting way.

Edited on by SKTTR

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Zkibu

@SKTTR Didn't remember that the Disaster was a Monolith game. But yeah you are right about Xenoblade X. Maybe western is wrong word here, I just tend to associate the optimal art style close to first two Alien movies. Feels like it should have an international appeal.

@judaspete BOTW would be IMO the best source of inspiration.

Zkibu

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Agriculture

judaspete wrote:

Using Zelda as an analogy with Prime 1 being OoT , what type of sequel to you want Prime 4 to be?

-Twilight Princess: Bigger and prettier, but essentially the same.
-BotW: Huge and expansive update to bring the franchise in line with modern AAA design.
-Majora's Mask: Smaller in scope and scale but with a compelling new gameplay hook to make it feel more immersive.

I could see any one of these being cool, but with the troubled development it might make the most sense to go with the Twilight Princess approach. It's already been 10 years since Corruption, so this wouldn't really feel stale. More like a throwback.

Great question. I think they need to take the series in a new direction and not cater so much to existing fans. I understand that this is controversial, but at the same time there are more non-Metroid fans than Metroid fans. It should be more like what Breath of the Wild is to the Zelda series. I don't mean that literally, as in it needs a giant open world with 900 collectibles. I mean that they need to create large and impressive areas, with standard FPS controls, and some new take on how to open up more of the game world (sort of how BotW used stamina).

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FragRed

@subpopz It;'s obvious what's coming - Metroid Anthem - always online, open world pew pew shooter. Calling it now!

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HobbitGamer

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Zkibu

@Dezzy I might be wrong but aren't people usually more interested in exploring the world than focus on side missions? My anecdote here is that usually I just wondered around in Hyrule and usually found some new places or ended up in fight. Obviously that is just my experience, but I think it's not bad to give freedom of choice to do anything to the player even on a Metroid game.

Edited on by Zkibu

Zkibu

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Lemmy_the_Koopa

I want to chime in in the discussion about open world or restricted world. A true open world would deter me from the actual game and the mission at hand. It happened at so many games already and I'd rather would love the game slowly guiding me through the world.

That said I am not against having three or four sections at once where one could progress in any order with more being available so there will be a lot more freedom.

Edited on by Lemmy_the_Koopa

Lemmy_the_Koopa

SKTTR

Warframe is a good example of having corridor levels on planet surfaces or in orbital spaceships, but also a wide openworld area that adds so much to the world's atmosphere (and there's exciting stuff like rng missions and even a nearby town - not to mention it's an mmo.) I don't think all of this needs to be in Metroid (especially not the farming for materials), but is it too much to ask for a new Metroid Prime game that can showcase at least some of the modern features and technical highlights that, of all things, a third party F2P Switch game did months ago?

Can we talk about Metroid Prime Trilogy HD here as well?
I already have the Trilogy disc on Wii, and the 3 games separately on Gamecube/Wii, but a HD treatment is long overdue! (I kinda wish they saved the trilogy for Wii U so we could have all three games in HD already). Thinking about the heavily rumoured remaster I got some suggestions and wishes:

First off, let me say that I think that Metroid Prime Hunters had the potential to be Nintendo's fps eSport game long before Splatoon! That was before hackers took over the Nintendo DS online scene.

So, I would add a fourth game called Metroid Prime Hunters X and make it the main attraction!
An online multiplayer fps that builds on Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, Metroid Prime Hunters, and Metroid Prime: Federation Force, but especially on the framework of Hunters (with Echoes' multiplayer stages as a bonus and Federation Force's extra modes). I'd do everything to bring Metroid into the online eSports market again.

Other than that people wanted the friend vouchers from MP3:C to be gone. I didn't like them either. I missed a bunch of content that couldn't be unlocked without sharing vouchers with other people playing through MP3:C. You just hoped the few online friends with MP3:C had the extremely limited vouchers in all the colors you needed. I'd change that facebooky mess and make all of its content regular unlockables.

Edited on by SKTTR

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Octane

@SKTTR I prefer a good game over a couple of "technical highlights" to be fair. More open environments also means less detail and less room for "modern technical highlights", so it just depends on your point of view.

Octane

SKTTR

@Octane

Technical highlights never make a (good) game worse. They would make them more exciting for people that aren't already the 1 million hardcore Metroid fans. Technical highlights would boost its popularity.

Seeing all new graphics in Smash instead of it being a quick Wii U port boosted its popularity.
Zelda openworld graphics boosted its popularity.
Technical highlights aren't just neccessary, they are expected, especially from big franchises.

It seems you want Metroid to be a one million seller, but is 1 million enough for Prime 4? Isn't it time to elevate the series to its full potential so it can sell as much as Zelda, Smash, Pokémon, or at least other fps games like Halo and Call of Duty? Metroid is better than them, isn't it? It just is not reflected in its sales!

I know that open environments need more graphical power, though that does not mean that games (BoTW, Warframe) can't shine in both territories at the same time. Why do you expect less from Metroid?

In the end the only differences that open world Metroid makes is removing doors from environments that shouldn't have any in the first place.

Edited on by SKTTR

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