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Topic: Metroid Prime 4: The Long(er) Wait

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Zkibu

@ThanosReXXX oh boy, seriously? You were the one who was labeling and picking the tone in our little conversation. You literally started by saying that I know nothing about Metroid. Besides I am not new in here. I just spend more time in Arcade competition thread.

The original basic premises of Zelda and Metroid share SOME similarities. Of course there are still differences between the two franchises. I even said that in my last post to you. I mentioned the open world concept and adopting that to Metroid instead of just putting Samus' helmet on Link's head and Call it Breath of the Chozo. You didn't read that part or you didn't understand.

About the arguments. All I have heard this far that for some reason the locking is essential to Metroid, which I just don't agree. Oh and some anecdotes. I am not talking about the personal tastes. I am just considering what could be the best for Metroid's future. If the last good game is from the year 2007 there is definately some serious fixing needed. The fanbase is already scared away.

Can you please explain your penultimate paragraph? For example you could perhaps explain why do you feel that the negatives would outnumber the merits?

Zkibu

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kkslider5552000

I will say, I feel like one of the reasons everyone hasn't been particularly angry about this delay is that no one could be that mad about it by this point. If this had happened sooner, it would've been a bad sign for Metroid after Other M. If this had happened later it would feel like they had cancelled a completed game (or had wasted way too much time on a game they weren't going to release). But instead it's been so long, that 11+ years after Prime 3, an extra couple of years barely even matters. Thank god they never showed anything about the game as well, that turned out for the best bizarrely enough.

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HobbitGamer

I just decided to look over the last two pages. And I've learned a few things.
-BotW is a 'timeless classic'
-Hardlock progression is somehow not considered the same as 'requiring better items' or 'having stronger enemies'
-If you enjoy things the way they are, you just don't like change
-@ThanosReXXX insults people with simple words
-Ultima is still somehow relevant.
Untitled

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ThanosReXXX

@Zkibu I see you completely ignored my genuine disclaimer there. That wasn't a joke: I was dead serious, hoping that it wouldn't result in another (seemingly) offended reply. Oh, well... can't win 'em all, I suppose...

I wasn't picking on you, I stated in general that people who want the mechanics of the Metroid games to change, don't know or understand what the games are about. I did not direct my message solely to you. I would have tagged you otherwise. I was just agreeing with @EvilLucario, that's all.

And no offense, but no one likes to be belittled or getting a virtual (and rather sarcastic) pat on the shoulder for apparently doing better at being polite...

AGAIN, and try and understand it this time, please. In NO comment of mine, was I offensive, nor did I intend to.
I clearly stated "likewise" in my reply to you, concerning wanting to have a normal discussion, but you either keep reading me wrong, or you're cherry-picking stuff out of my comments to support whatever point you're trying to make concerning the way I'm communicating.

And allow me to rephrase: maybe you're not ALL new, but you're still relatively new, compared to most of us that you're now in discussion with, who have been subscribed here for far longer than you. We're not easily offended in general, and you should be able to take some criticism. No one ever died from being criticized, but if you're not able to take punches, then perhaps you shouldn't deal any either, whether intended or not.

As for the benefits being outweighed by the negatives, that is something that I already mentioned in all of my previous comments, and so has @EvilLucario. The whole eerie, isolated and claustrophobic atmosphere that IS Metroid, would vanish all but completely, if they would turn it into some large, open world game.
I'm sorry, but I don't know any simpler way to say it.

I think that I've previously already gone into quite some detail, but apparently, that wasn't enough.
And consider the source material, and the inspiration that the game got from the Aliens movies that I mentioned before: it was a VERY clear and undeniable example for the reason for the confined spaces/corridors, which also showed that limitations of hardware aren't (really and/or necessarily) a reason for having those in the game.
It's simply about creating a certain atmosphere and setting a certain tone.

One that perfectly fits with the whole lonely, isolated bounty hunter/mercenary setting, and one that you simply could not recreate in an entirely open world-like setting.

I think that most of us can agree that ever since the Prime trilogy, the subsequent games haven't really stood out as epitomes of brilliance, so no one is debating that, but just because bad decisions were made with those particular games, doesn't mean that we have to completely restructure the whole foundation of the series,
to accommodate an open world setting.

The Prime series is still very highly regarded, and as such, I think it's pretty safe to say that most Metroid Prime fans will simply want another good game along those lines, with some improvements here and there, and of course with shiny new graphics, but other than that, there's really no need for something wildly different from the previous three Prime games.

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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ThanosReXXX

@JackEatsSparrows I'm insulting no one. No offense, but this is turning to a rather tiresome and annoying evening, if people keep misreading my comments. You're probably just kidding, so take no offense in that case.

I guess it's just one of those days for me...

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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HobbitGamer

@ThanosReXXX Nah, my friend, I didn’t see anything insulting. Just having a laugh at it all 😁

I like the linearity in Metroid games. It would feel horribly awkward to me if it had a more open feel. Prime 2 already is hard for me to put down and pick up after awhile because of its change in access. And I don’t know how many times I got lost in the original Metroid II.

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ThanosReXXX

@JackEatsSparrows Yeah, I suppose I should just shrug and laugh it off. Sometimes, though...
Agreed on Prime 2. A fourth game in the series could do with some tweaks, but them naming it Metroid Prime does seem to indicate that it is a part of that continuity, and as such, it creates a certain expectation for me, and probably a whole lot of others, that it isn't going to be something completely different from those previous three games.

Just more of the same, except bigger, better and more beautiful.

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

NEStalgia

I'd like to thank @ThanosReXXX for encouraging me to participate in this enlightening and well balanced discussion. I figured I'd come and add my own input to continue the conversation in its current insightful and contemplative direction:
Untitled

Discuss among yourselves.

NEStalgia

link3710

@ThanosReXXX Just butting in to point out that Prime 3 wasn't really any easier. They just renamed the difficulty levels, with Veteran being the old Normal and Hypermode being the old Hard (There were only two difficulty levels in the first two games). Basically, they just added an easier difficulty to make the game more accessible, but they failed to make that clear.

Edit: Whoops, called Veteran Hard by mistake.

Edited on by link3710

link3710

ThanosReXXX

@NEStalgia Well, thanks a bunch, pal. Back to the Xbox 360 thread with you. Haven't you got any external hard drives that need listening to?

@link3710 Oh, I agree, but seeing as @JackEatsSparrows only mentioned Prime 2, that was the only thing that I responded to, obviously. All of the games had their ups and downs, that will hopefully be addressed to some extent in the fourth game, but they are classics nonetheless. And well-deserved too...

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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GyroZeppeli

@NEStalgia You forgot Blast Ball.

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Zkibu

@ThanosReXXX hmm.. What does my time in here has to do with Metroid? I saw your disclaimer. But what was I supposed to do? If I am disagreeing with you that doesn't mean I am offended. Your approach just seemed to be quite unfruitful and sorry if I was belittle but I can read without the boldings thanks.

About that statement (about the knowledge of Metroid). Believe me I want to say this most unoffensive way. It just sounds funny when you want some openmindness from someone who disagrees with you when you yourself have already decided what should be the consensus of the next Metroid Prime. What there is to left to conversate then if you already think that other views are just absolutely wrong? I don't mean that you or anyone have to buy my idea, but I am sensing some echo chamber vibes here.

About cherrypicking:

  • you guys are worried that the open world would kill the tension
  • I am saying that open world doesn't have to be some wide large space.

Hard to cherrypick anymore.

That's it for my part with this childish distraction. I am willing to return real conversation If there is somebody interested.

Edited on by Zkibu

Zkibu

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ThanosReXXX

@Zkibu Doesn't have so much to do with Metroid as about having a feel for how we communicate with each other. The additional comments of others should tell you more about that. Nobody but you was offended about what I said. And bolding words isn't offensive, it is simply meant to emphasize words, to underline importance. If I was writing words in capitals, then I could understand where you're coming from, but in this case not really.

As for your idea: you started the discussion, no one agreed with you, and when we tried to explain the when and why, all you did was emphasize your own point, and in the process labeling ours as not being valid, we not wanting change and so on and so on. So, no offense, but who is having difficulties with having a normal discussion here?

Personally, I was just looking for some middle ground, or a better explanation from you than "Metroid should be more like Breath of the Wild or Ultima because reasons". You said it's not about the specific gameplay in these games, but you didn't really go into a whole lot of detail about how we should see that work in practice then.

So, give that another try, and we'll see what comes of it. I already previously added that when Samus is in space/off-planet, that there could be space battles or whatever, to mix it up a little bit, but we do like the isolated and claustrophobic feel, because... well, because that is what Metroid is about.

Or to be more precise: that's what Metroid Prime is about. Nintendo themselves have put that idea in our minds, well at least: in most of our minds, by giving it that name, hinting at there being a connection with the trilogy, which would at the very least require some kind of similarity between the new game and the previous three. Upending that tried and tested formula, would instantly create a disconnect for most of us.
(as in: "well, whatever kind of Metroid game this is, I don't know, but it most certainly isn't a Metroid Prime game, regardless of what Nintendo labeled it as.")

Nintendo created expectations, and those need to be met. So, I really do believe that there is very little room for them to radically change stuff, whether for the sake of it, or whether because it's actually possible hardware-wise.

Changes can certainly be made, environments made bigger and so on, but that doesn't mean that it all of a sudden has to become an open world game. And if it isn't an open-wide space, then we might as well call it a sandbox game instead of open world, which would make it a different discussion altogether.

The devil is in the details, as they say, so if you're up to it, sketch us a bit more of a fleshed-out idea and who knows, we may not be so opposed to your opinion as we are now, after all...

I'm perfectly willing to listen, as long as you give us a bit more to go on than just saying "Metroid should be more like BotW".

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

GyroZeppeli

ThanosReXXX wrote:

I'm perfectly willing to listen, as long as you give us a bit more to go on than just saying "Metroid should be more like BotW".

Silly Thanos, all Nintendo franchises have to be open world because of the success of Breath of the Wild and Odyssey. It’s what the consumers want!

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Spanjard

Am I really the only one in here who has no problems with @Zkibu ideas? They seem pretty reasonable to me. There are more ways to go about Metroid without losing it’s identity. Thinking you know how Metroid works or should work only tells us you have little imagination. And hey, it’s just some ideas, no need to take views out of context and to such extreme. I would love to see them try to take a spin at a dark soulish formula. I see great potential.

Otherwise, great conversation, keep it up

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EvilLucario

@NEStalgia Federation Force isn't exactly a bad game, just unremarkable with a Metroid Prime skin over it. People really just hate it because it was the only Metroid-related thing after five years.

@link3710 Even on Veteran Prime 3 is a lot easier than Prime 1 or 2 because activating Hypermode (the Phazon) completely destroys every enemy. The HP you lose is nothing compared to how much HP you'll gain back from fallen enemies. Hypermode difficulty is a different story where enemies can take much more beating, do much more damage, and Dark Samus and Aurora Unit 313 at the end are extremely difficult, more than GameCube Boost Guardian in Prime 2, but on Normal and Veteran Prime 3 is much easier than Prime 1 and 2 on their own Normal and Veteran difficulties.

Edited on by EvilLucario

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Zkibu

@ThanosReXXX This is getting ridiculous. You really wanted to continue that nonsense? Why would anyone be offended when they are too busy in trying to troll me?

3rd time. All of these points I have presented in this thread earlier and some of them directly to you. For some reason you and nobody have actually really commented on these. @EvilLucario commented on linearity but didn't really explain how he is measuring the popularity. You have just completed your hat trick of ignoring my points when you said "Metroid should be like BoTW". So it 's pretty hard to have a conversation here.

I said:

  • not excact copy of BoTW just adopt the open world and adjust it in Metroid universe.
  • it's not like there hasn't been any open world in earlier Metroids
  • openworld and unlinearity walk hand in hand pretty well and getting lost in alien planet should suit pretty well in Metroid
  • open world doesn't have to be large wide spaces
  • planet would open slowly as the players gear and skills get better. They can return some earlier place filled with difficult enemies and this time beat them
  • more replay value when experienced players can choose to take on difficult enemies early on.
  • Metroids don't use doors
  • there are different areas like in every Metroid game, it doesn't mean the corridors would be gone. There are outdoors places in every Metroid too.
  • differentiate with difficulty like it was originally designed

You are of course welcome to give your input.

Edited on by Zkibu

Zkibu

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kkslider5552000

this is the most pointlessly aggressive discussion, what is happening

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GyroZeppeli

This whole argument is a bit silly, Metroid Prime 4 won’t be too different from the rest because it’s a numbered entry. If it was called something like Metroid Prime: The Ancient Hunter, I would expect a vastly different playstyle.

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HobbitGamer

Isn’t Metroid Prime already open world in comparison to 2D games?

I guess the main takeaway I’m getting from your points is to remove doors that require beams or missiles, while still keeping environmental locks like water, cracked walls, large chasms, etc. (similar to area locks in BotW such as tall cliffs, rain, temperatures, ocean)
I’m supposing that the motivation to acquire beams and missiles would be to more easily defeat enemies?
I mean, I get it, that may sound neat. I just know I personally don’t feel like Prime is restricted by its world progression to warrant a change. It’s definitely a lot more open than 90%+ of shooters.

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