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Topic: Metroid Prime 4: The Long(er) Wait

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SamusLv7

EvilLucario wrote:

One huge advantage of Retro now handling Prime 4 that I barely see much people bring up is that Retro has (presumably) the source code and old ideas for Prime 1-3. Imagine if we finally brought back Meta Kraid, who was cut from Prime 1 due to constraints. Imagine them finally deciding how to incorporate the Speed Booster in a Prime game. Etc.

A recurring theme of Nintendo lately was digging back to past ideas and refining it for modern day. Stuff like BotW calling back to Zelda 1 in design, Odyssey calling back to 64 and Sunshine, and Smash Ultimate taking cut concepts like Ditto (who was supposed to be in Melee) and the premise of World of Light (which was one of the initial proposals for Subspace Emissary) and putting it in the game officially.

I (Edit: It) will be awesome to see Meta Kraid in Prime 4. Also the Queen Shegoth that was scraped from Prime 1 due to time constraints and even Mother Brain.

Edited on by SamusLv7

Now playing:
Zelda BotW (DLC), Mario Odyssey, Octopath Traveler, Bravely Default, Yooka-Laylee, Bravely Second.

DarthNocturnal

@SamusLv7

Wasn't that an ice boss unrelated to the Sheegoth? The one who modeled and skinned it (Mike Sneath) said it was created in the first year development, and was axed because Nintendo felt it was better suited for an RPG, rather then Metroid.

Still, it'd be cool if they brought it back.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

SamusLv7

@DarthNocturnal Agreed. I didn't know too much about the Queen Shegoth since I only saw it once on a youtube video. Also would be interesting to see how see how they implement the Speed Booster in a Prime game.

Now playing:
Zelda BotW (DLC), Mario Odyssey, Octopath Traveler, Bravely Default, Yooka-Laylee, Bravely Second.

ThanosReXXX

Just gonna put this up here, in case somebody missed it, or is actually interested in these rumors:
https://twitter.com/imranzomg/status/1088857688027480065

Take it with a generous amount of salt, though. I'm certainly doing that, at least until more is known, and rumors like these are actually officially confirmed.

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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Zkibu

Really curious about the Retro's pitch. Nintendo mentioned that they weren't happy with the quality of the Metroid Prime 4. I am suspecting that they were okay about the product until they met Retro Studios. If they were worried about the quality then how could the Other M and the Federation Force ever happen?

So what was Retro' s pitch? Earlier the Zelda franchise shared some similarities with Metroid. So could it be that the new game is going to be as open as BOTW?

Zkibu

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Dezzy

Octane wrote:

@Dezzy To be fair, those sales were on the GameCube, and the Wii (and I don't think the demographic, nor the marketing was there for 3). I'm certain it can sell at least 5 million on the Switch. Probably even more. There are a lot more Switch owners, and the demographic has changed over the years.

4-5 million seems possible. I doubt it'd be much more than that though. It's still a fairly niche series. It doesn't really tick any of the mass market checkboxes.
Wii audience demographic was definitely all over the place. Gamecube audience demographic seems fairly similar to Switch demographic though. Except the Switch will have a bigger install base. Beyond that, I'm not sure what the difference is. Maybe higher average age audience. But I'm not sure what impact that has on Nintendo given that the most mature stuff they make is teenage and upwards.

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Aeleron0X

I really hope that whatever Retro was working on after all these years gets released or at least announced. I mean think about it, imagine working on a game for 5 years only for it to be cancelled. I feel like that would really hurt the team's morale. I'm glad to hear that Retro Studios is back and if they managed to impress Nintendo with their demo, then that does give me some confidence that the team is still capable of doing something good with a younger team. But at the same time, I'm also concerned if their morale isn't up to par or Nintendo isn't using them properly

Aeleron0X

NintyNate

I want to see what build this Metroid Prime 4 originally had

NintyNate

Lemmy_the_Koopa

@Zkibu My hot take would be.

Other M was trying to get a 2Desque Metroid on a big console, though I guess they did not understand that the players were adamant about the exploration and meaningful progression.
Federation Force was probably just a Metroid game so they could namedrop it to make Fedeartion Force sell better. They probably did not anticipate the backlash they would get from this.

Apparently with Samus Returns and giving Prime 4 the better treatment might be a clue that they ae willing to improve in order to salvage the Metroid IP. With two "stinker" games they certainly can't have any further missteps, or else they could bury this IP completely.

Another possibility would be that Prime 4 is even a bigger dumpster fire than those games named.

This is pure conjecture on my part, of course.

Lemmy_the_Koopa

Zkibu

@Lemmy_the_Koopa agreed, Nintendo were completely out of touch what is a Metroid-game. We can see that development as early as Metroid Prime 3 which was quite linear game. I seriously hope that they realized now that the problem was their previous products than the audience. The demand is still there as we can see with the people's reaction and anticipation after they revealed just the logo.

Zkibu

Switch Friend Code: SW-3139-0887-1010

SKTTR

subpopz wrote:

We don't know the new Retro staff, much like how no one knew who Retro even was back then.

No, that's not true. We knew the old Retro back then when it was new. We knew they were the new Iguana Entertainment that had loads of experience in the first person genre, as they developed classic and popular N64 titles such as the Turok series and Forsaken before Acclaim went bankrupt and Nintendo picked them up.

We know less now. But I don't worry. Even NSTC was able to create one of the best Metroid Prime games (Hunters).
A newly formed Retro has the best connections and all the assets and knowledge to make Metroid Prime 4 work best. It's not like all old Metroid Prime staff is gone, they still have a bunch of veterans.

Edited on by SKTTR

backloggery.com/SKTTR

EvilLucario

@Zkibu Are you joking? Prime 3 was literally taking the Fusion route in terms of linearity, and Fusion came out all the way back in 2002 next to Prime 1. Overall still linear and always provides an objective, but how you get there is still up to you.

And Fusion is one of the best games in the series. Prime 3 is also great, and its problems had nothing to do with linearity. It more had to do with Hypermode being extremely unbalanced, causing combat to become a breeze.

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Zkibu

@EvilLucario Wasn't trying to attack anyone's favourite game in the series. People can certainly enjoy any game they want. I am just trying to look the data. You are absolutely right the linearity started earlier than Prime 3 I just accidentally forgot the GBA games

The Fusion came out same time as the first Prime game. Prime ended up being more popular even on a failed hardware. Reason for it I believe is despite being a 3D game it catches the better the openess and explorative atmosphere from the original game. I firmly believe that the open world-theme a la BoTW, Ultima Underworld series and original Metroid is really essential for the series. Now even more when Retro don't have to design the around corridors due to hardware limitations.

Zkibu

Switch Friend Code: SW-3139-0887-1010

EvilLucario

@Zkibu Saying Nintendo is out of touch and the problem was in their past products (when that literally only applies to Other M and Federation Force) when all the games from Fusion to Prime 3 were widely acclaimed is stretching it very far.

Open world and Metroid also does not mix well. The point of Metroid's design is to lock you out of places initially, only gradually opening up the world as you get stronger. Open world is the antithesis of that.

Games like Dark Souls which has an interconnected world work because there are barely ANY locks in the game.

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Zkibu

@EvilLucario so what is the problem then? The audience? I think we can agree that Metroid Prime 3 was popular game, but it was released 12 years ago. So I feel like I am not stretching. All three games after it has been pr and commercial flops (Other M and Federation Forces) and commercial flop (Samus Returns)

Hmm... Dropping the player in an unknown hostile planet where one can explore freely wouldn't suit well for Metroid? Really?

Zkibu

Switch Friend Code: SW-3139-0887-1010

EvilLucario

@Zkibu It wouldn't because that's not what Metroid is. Zelda going open world in BotW worked because Zelda had did it back in Zelda 1. BotW is literally just Zelda 1 mixed with modern conventions.

Metroid is based on locks, getting powerups to clear obstacles that once blocked your path. Open world is 'do whatever you want' which you can't do without some sacrifices to what makes Metroid's design work.

Otherwise all we'd be playing is another open world game with a Metroid Prime skin.

Edited on by EvilLucario

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ThanosReXXX

@EvilLucario I completely agree with you. Anyone not understanding this, doesn't know what a Metroid game is supposed to be like, or what the premise of it is.

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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Morpheel

Yeah, as far as I know, the main thing in Metroid is that you unlock the world bit by bit.

Giving you the world already open is like giving you a chewed gum.

Edited on by Morpheel

Yeah I don’t know either.

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Octane

I mean, there's a reason why ''Metroidvania'' is considered its own thing. Going open world would completely ignore what the franchise is about.

Octane

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