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Topic: Metroid Prime 4: The Long(er) Wait

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GeoChrome

ThanosReXXX wrote:

I'm perfectly willing to listen, as long as you give us a bit more to go on than just saying "Metroid should be more like BotW".

Silly Thanos, all Nintendo franchises have to be open world because of the success of Breath of the Wild and Odyssey. It’s what the consumers want!

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JoyBoy

Am I really the only one in here who has no problems with @Zkibu ideas? They seem pretty reasonable to me. There are more ways to go about Metroid without losing it’s identity. Thinking you know how Metroid works or should work only tells us you have little imagination. And hey, it’s just some ideas, no need to take views out of context and to such extreme. I would love to see them try to take a spin at a dark soulish formula. I see great potential.

Otherwise, great conversation, keep it up

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EvilLucario

@NEStalgia Federation Force isn't exactly a bad game, just unremarkable with a Metroid Prime skin over it. People really just hate it because it was the only Metroid-related thing after five years.

@link3710 Even on Veteran Prime 3 is a lot easier than Prime 1 or 2 because activating Hypermode (the Phazon) completely destroys every enemy. The HP you lose is nothing compared to how much HP you'll gain back from fallen enemies. Hypermode difficulty is a different story where enemies can take much more beating, do much more damage, and Dark Samus and Aurora Unit 313 at the end are extremely difficult, more than GameCube Boost Guardian in Prime 2, but on Normal and Veteran Prime 3 is much easier than Prime 1 and 2 on their own Normal and Veteran difficulties.

Edited on by EvilLucario

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Zkibu

@ThanosReXXX This is getting ridiculous. You really wanted to continue that nonsense? Why would anyone be offended when they are too busy in trying to troll me?

3rd time. All of these points I have presented in this thread earlier and some of them directly to you. For some reason you and nobody have actually really commented on these. @EvilLucario commented on linearity but didn't really explain how he is measuring the popularity. You have just completed your hat trick of ignoring my points when you said "Metroid should be like BoTW". So it 's pretty hard to have a conversation here.

I said:

  • not excact copy of BoTW just adopt the open world and adjust it in Metroid universe.
  • it's not like there hasn't been any open world in earlier Metroids
  • openworld and unlinearity walk hand in hand pretty well and getting lost in alien planet should suit pretty well in Metroid
  • open world doesn't have to be large wide spaces
  • planet would open slowly as the players gear and skills get better. They can return some earlier place filled with difficult enemies and this time beat them
  • more replay value when experienced players can choose to take on difficult enemies early on.
  • Metroids don't use doors
  • there are different areas like in every Metroid game, it doesn't mean the corridors would be gone. There are outdoors places in every Metroid too.
  • differentiate with difficulty like it was originally designed

You are of course welcome to give your input.

Edited on by Zkibu

Zkibu

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GeoChrome

This whole argument is a bit silly, Metroid Prime 4 won’t be too different from the rest because it’s a numbered entry. If it was called something like Metroid Prime: The Ancient Hunter, I would expect a vastly different playstyle.

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HobbitGamer

Isn’t Metroid Prime already open world in comparison to 2D games?

I guess the main takeaway I’m getting from your points is to remove doors that require beams or missiles, while still keeping environmental locks like water, cracked walls, large chasms, etc. (similar to area locks in BotW such as tall cliffs, rain, temperatures, ocean)
I’m supposing that the motivation to acquire beams and missiles would be to more easily defeat enemies?
I mean, I get it, that may sound neat. I just know I personally don’t feel like Prime is restricted by its world progression to warrant a change. It’s definitely a lot more open than 90%+ of shooters.

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EvilLucario

@JackEatsSparrows No. Actually, you could say it's harder to sequence break the Prime games like you can in Super Metroid and Zero Mission. It's possible, but all unintentional like ghetto jumping to get the Plasma Beam early. There's a more set direction of item acquisition in Prime than Super Metroid and Zero Mission.

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link3710

@EvilLucario I'll be honest, I don't use Hypermode when I play Prime 3. It always felt like cheating.

link3710

Grumblevolcano

I used Hypermode on Prime 3 but I've only played Prime 3 once and that was like 10 years ago. The game's fine but nowhere near as good as 1 and 2. If Prime Trilogy does happen for Switch and they get rid of that stupid friend voucher system I'll probably replay all 3 rather than just 1 and 2.

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EvilLucario

@link3710 That's mostly because Hypermode was a last-minute addition that ruined a lot of the combat balance. They tried to mitigate it by having enemies that could also use Hypermode, but all that did was incentivize you to use Hypermode anyway since trying to kill them without Hypermode takes an ungodly amount of time, especially in the Pirate Homeworld.

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kkslider5552000

I'll be honest, I have no memory of hypermode breaking the game, maybe you all just played it wrong :V

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SKTTR

Back in 1986 Zelda 1 and Metroid 1 both were technically just "action-adventures".
Zelda was a topdown fantasy action-adventure, Metroid was a sidescrolling sci-fi action-adventure.

The exact same genre, played from a different perspective (and with an opposite theme) to make them look like two very different games when in reality they share the same gameplay mechanics: Both had huge open spaces to traverse through from the get-go and both had many places that you were locked out of until you got a bunch of permanent items.

Zelda 3 and Metroid 3 share even more obvious parallels, being redefined. They both became less openworldy and more structured, but they still allowed plenty of paths to branch out to have the player go his own way for the most part. The metroidvania spirit was on its peak, the metroidvania gameplay was perfected. The metroidvania genre was born. But it was just action-adventure, topdown and sidescrolling, and it had no name until years later when someone from Konami used the Zelda 3/Metroid 3 gameplay mechanics and applied them to one of their Castlevania games.

Metroid Prime is a series that always showed some impressive graphics. An openworld-overworld alien planet that could impress the people. And then separate dungeons that lead into the planet or into space that would please the fans. It could work if you allow the game to have the best of both worlds.

One huge open world area in Metroid Prime 4 would make the game feel bigger and better and would open it up for a new audience that wasn't interested before. The open world should be only an addition though. I don't want Metroid to lose its claustrophobic underground areas or anything else that made the game iconic. The new direction should only add something that wasn't there before. It has to keep the old goods.

If you ask me what studio's able to do openworld Metroid justice, I'd give all my trust to Monolithsoft. They know how to design openworld alien planets and giant roaming alien beasts.

Edited on by SKTTR

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Dezzy

No idea what exactly you're arguing about. But if it's about making Metroid open-world, I think that would be a terrible idea.

Metroid has such a focused game loop, it depends on calculated pacing so the distance between each new power is fairly constant. It's also a fairly one-note experience. There isn't much in the way of a series of different objectives. It's mostly just the 1 mission. That wouldn't translate to an open-world game very well. Open-worlds need to have a range of objectives in order to make exploration make sense (because a range of objectives gives you more destinations to head to).

Unless by "open-world", you just mean slightly wider open areas and fewer repetitive corridors. That would be fine. I think those were mostly to allow dynamic loading on the heavily restricted hardware.

Edited on by Dezzy

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Zkibu

@JackEatsSparrows I guess one can say it's openworldish. Especially later on. One of my points was that perhaps it would be wise to remove artificial blocks that don't make sense (animals don't use doors). That could actually help to make the game more immersive.

@SKTTR Thanks you said it much better than me. Maybe sometimes you just have pictured everything that you are going to write in your head, but then it doesn't translate that well on the keyboard. Monolith would be interesting, I mean they are really good at creating surreal looking places and creatures. however I have my doubts how well they could change the gameplay of JRPG to FPA and anime style to more western look. Retro's advantage is probably that they need to deliver this time and really well. That sort of pressure might drive them do great things.

Zkibu

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judaspete

Using Zelda as an analogy with Prime 1 being OoT , what type of sequel to you want Prime 4 to be?

-Twilight Princess: Bigger and prettier, but essentially the same.
-BotW: Huge and expansive update to bring the franchise in line with modern AAA design.
-Majora's Mask: Smaller in scope and scale but with a compelling new gameplay hook to make it feel more immersive.

I could see any one of these being cool, but with the troubled development it might make the most sense to go with the Twilight Princess approach. It's already been 10 years since Corruption, so this wouldn't really feel stale. More like a throwback.

judaspete

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link3710

@judaspete I'd probably prefer Majora's Mask, but honestly a TP approach would be fine. I'd personally rather not see a BotW style reinvention here. Unlike traditional 3D Zelda, Metroid Prime doesn't have any competitors I can use as alternatives to get similar gameplay experiences, and I've already played the first 3 to death.

link3710

SKTTR

Zkibu wrote:

Monolith would be interesting, I mean they are really good at creating surreal looking places and creatures. however I have my doubts how well they could change the gameplay of JRPG to FPA and anime style to more western look. Retro's advantage is probably that they need to deliver this time and really well. That sort of pressure might drive them do great things.

After finishing development for Xenoblade 2, Monolith added experienced action game developers to their staff for their next giant project.

Also, they are not inexperienced in making games with an art style similar to Metroid (Xenoblade X) or action games with a western setting (Disaster: Day of Crisis).
For me though, a Western look is not neccessary for the Metroid series. It needs the look and interpretations of alien settings, styles, and worlds, not western or eastern.

@judaspete

I would say BotW,
because Twilight Princess is what we got with Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. A bigger and better and creepier game, right down to the light and dark theme.
And Majora's Mask could almost be Metroid Prime Hunters. Smaller in scale, re-using old assets, and both games use time in an interesting way.

Edited on by SKTTR

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Zkibu

@SKTTR Didn't remember that the Disaster was a Monolith game. But yeah you are right about Xenoblade X. Maybe western is wrong word here, I just tend to associate the optimal art style close to first two Alien movies. Feels like it should have an international appeal.

@judaspete BOTW would be IMO the best source of inspiration.

Zkibu

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Agriculture

judaspete wrote:

Using Zelda as an analogy with Prime 1 being OoT , what type of sequel to you want Prime 4 to be?

-Twilight Princess: Bigger and prettier, but essentially the same.
-BotW: Huge and expansive update to bring the franchise in line with modern AAA design.
-Majora's Mask: Smaller in scope and scale but with a compelling new gameplay hook to make it feel more immersive.

I could see any one of these being cool, but with the troubled development it might make the most sense to go with the Twilight Princess approach. It's already been 10 years since Corruption, so this wouldn't really feel stale. More like a throwback.

Great question. I think they need to take the series in a new direction and not cater so much to existing fans. I understand that this is controversial, but at the same time there are more non-Metroid fans than Metroid fans. It should be more like what Breath of the Wild is to the Zelda series. I don't mean that literally, as in it needs a giant open world with 900 collectibles. I mean that they need to create large and impressive areas, with standard FPS controls, and some new take on how to open up more of the game world (sort of how BotW used stamina).

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