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Topic: Metroid Prime 4: The Long(er) Wait

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meleebrawler

MarcelRguez wrote:

For what's worth, Tanabe said they are planning to replicate Prime 1 (in terms of narrative and atmosphere, I'm assuming) with this game. I'd say them "going back to the roots" hints at an entirely new scenario, just like Prime was its own thing back in the day.

MegaTen wrote:

I think it's crucial for classic games to be available at all times.

Qft. Book get reprints, films and albums get new editions and re-releases. It shouldn't be any different with games, preservation is important.

As a side note, I don't understand why Capcom gets so much flak for this. I wish other publishers realized the benefits of re-releases.

Odd. Everything I've seen leading up to 4 makes me think another major conflict is brewing (Pirates were barely slowed down by the destruction of Phazon, Sylux is plotting something nasty with Metroids and the Federation probably kicked their golem project into high gear after their roaring success). Maybe we'll see a split focus between Samus exploring another foreign planet and the Federation gearing for battle, in the form of different game modes.

Also, people hate on Capcom for pretty much any reason at all. It's the popular thing to do.

@Bolt_Strike The real challenge in the gauntlet wasn't the elites, but the beam troopers and their powerful guns. They're second only to mega turrets in how much damage they can do when still using the Gravity Suit. There are far less troubling enemies on later trips, though, and once you get the Phazon Suit nothing short of Meta Ridley and the final boss can seriously hurt you at all.

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Bolt_Strike

meleebrawler wrote:

@Bolt_Strike The real challenge in the gauntlet wasn't the elites, but the beam troopers and their powerful guns. They're second only to mega turrets in how much damage they can do when still using the Gravity Suit. There are far less troubling enemies on later trips, though, and once you get the Phazon Suit nothing short of Meta Ridley and the final boss can seriously hurt you at all.

I did notice that when replaying this game and didn't really pick up on it before, the beam troopers' weapons have an insane rate of fire that I haven't really seen in other Metroid games and I took a lot of damage from them as a result. If I'm not behind cover, they hit me about 3-5 times before I can get in a charge shot on them.

Anyway, still not impressed with the gauntlet, linearity does not suit Metroid. If they ever do a legit remake of this game they need to add more to Phazon Mines, throwing in a few more late game abilities like Screw Attack and having you go off the beaten path for them should do the trick.

Bolt_Strike

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meleebrawler

@Bolt_Strike Well, the Dark Pirate Troopers in Echoes are almost as powerful, maybe even more dangerous at the points you encounter them where you have no defence upgrades or sizeable health.

Tallon IV just wasn't structured very well compared to later games when it comes to navigation. It's already documented here how you almost always have to go through Magmoor to get anywhere, and there are very few shortcuts.

Every game since has added more transports, whether in the form of more elevators between areas, gunship landing sites or the newest teleport stations.

Edited on by meleebrawler

Alone, a force. Together, a force of nature.

3DS FC: 2535-3888-1548

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Bolt_Strike

meleebrawler wrote:

Tallon IV just wasn't structured very well compared to later games when it comes to navigation. It's already documented here how you almost always have to go through Magmoor to get anywhere, and there are very few shortcuts.

Every game since has added more transports, whether in the form of more elevators between areas, gunship landing sites or the newest teleport stations.

That's true, but the lack of structure was part of the charm of Tallon IV. It made the game feel a little more organic instead of being compartmentalized. Although more transports should definitely be a must. Going back and forth through Magmoor to get anywhere is definitely tedious.

Still not the problem with the gauntlet areas, as we've seen that in Prime 2 as well. The gauntlets are because of linear area design and bad item pacing, the later game areas tend to only have a handful of powerups to obtain whereas earlier ones usually have at least 3 or 4. Adding in new powerups to the game and putting them in areas that didn't have many like Magmoor Caverns and Phazon Mines and creating branching paths to reach those items is the easiest solution to that issue.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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Scrummer

Tbh, I just hope this is the kind of game that would be easy for a newcomer to the series to play. I missed out on the Metroid Prime Trilogy, and am hoping that I'll be able to play this game only knowing basic things about Metroid.

Scrummer

Switch Friend Code: SW-7938-1793-3581 | My Nintendo: Scrummer

MarcelRguez

@Scrummer You explore an environment in first person and occasionally point at stuff and shoot. It isn't something that's hard to get into, exactly. It's the core gameplay that series like Fallout adopted in order to attract a new audience, for example

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

Scrummer

@MarcelRguez I'm talking more in story terms. For example, Destiny 2 is something that would be hard to get into story-wise if you didn't play Destiny 1.

Scrummer

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MarcelRguez

@Scrummer Oh, my mistake. Since you said "play", I thought you were talking about the gameplay side of things.

Well, @DarthNocturnal is right. You need to have played Prime 1 in order to fully understand what happens in Prime 3, but that doesn't mean the moment-to-moment gameplay isn't as enjoyable. Keep in mind that, while the games have an overarching narrative, each of them takes place on a different setting, with its own individual set of events. Hell, Corruption even has lore that's mostly separated from the main plot in each of its planets.

MarcelRguez

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Scrummer

@MarcelRguez @DarthNocturnal Ok, thanks. Even if there are things I don't understand, chances are I would be able to see all the Metroid Prime lore on the internet.

Scrummer

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Tyranexx

I just wanted to jump in here and point out that I did start playing MP3 two/three weeks ago. I'm not going to blog about it as intensively in this thread this time around due to how busy I've been IRL; plus, I think that I'm roughly halfway through the title by this point.

I'm currently on the Pirate Homeworld (just got what's still my favorite power-up: The Spider Ball), though I'd like to go back and comb both Elysia and Bryyo for some lore that I'm missing. I'm sitting on 11 Energy Tanks, 140ish Missiles, and am at 63% for item collection overall.

Positives:

  • I like the story so far. It's definitely more text and cutscene-heavy than the previous two, but in most cases this RPG aficionado doesn't mind that much.
  • At first, I was worried at the general linearity of the game. After leaving Norion, this became less of a problem. The planets aren't as winding and non-linear as Tallon IV or Aether, but I like that you have the option to explore multiple worlds.
  • As with the other Prime titles, there's some amazing music to be found here. I still loop Bryyo's main theme on YouTube at work from time to time.
  • I like the fact that you can interact with and control your ship more. This seemed a bit gimmicky at first, but over time I've learned to enjoy piloting Samus's ship.
  • I didn't notice this until I started parading around SkyTown, but I love the aesthetic changes of the PED Suit and especially Samus's face over time as she becomes more corrupt with Phazon. It makes you wonder what's going through her mind as she continues to use the PED Suit.

Negatives:

  • While I recognize that MP3 was originally a Wii title (unlike the other two), I feel that some of the push/pull/twist controls that you're forced to do are a bit gimmicky. I don't mind this in some cases when it's implemented well, but the simple twist/pull control mechanisms for some things get stale after awhile.
  • This is more of a personal negative than a faulting of the game. Why couldn't all of the other bounty hunters stick around longer? Seriously, they were cool and could have used more screen time. Gandrayda's death was especially...tense.

Currently playing: Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey, Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana (Switch)

"Love your neighbor as yourself." Mark 12:31

Haru17

@Tyranexx It's cool that you've been working your way through Corruption, I still haven't gotten back to my recent trilogy replay with all that's come out this year.

Gandrayda's boss fight was so hype, it's definitely one of the coolest betrayals I can remember. And that boss fight music is just so cool and space wizard-y. I like how creepy they make Samus' corruption. Have you died in hyper mode? The Prime games definitely made me curious to hear her internal monologue, 3 especially since the chase after Dark Samus becomes so much more grave than in Echoes. One of my favorite parts of Corruption is reactivating the giant war golems on Bryyo, that part felt like I was playing a next gen Myst game or something like that. I mention progress under the next spoiler tag, nothing concrete but if you don't want to know how far you've played of course don't click.

I'd say you're definitely further than halfway if you're on the Pirate Homeworld. That's the last bounty hunter and the last planet, so you're nearing the end of the trilogy. From your post you may be expecting the game to go on longer than it is. I did the same thing with Okami, thinking the final dungeon was going to start a new chapter of the game. I even got the impression that Okami was a sequel from how the story went, but that's another story.

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

meleebrawler

As far-fetched and reaching though it may seem (though not much more than some of Ridley's resurrections), it'd be neat if Dark Samus came back due to Sylux's machinations (via DNA scraped from Samus's suit from my headcanon ambush on her during Federation Force... hey, it worked for the big guy), but without the Phazon, and eventually uncovering the abilities she absorbed from her three corrupted hunters. Could make an interesting alternative playstyle with something akin to Bioshock's Plasmids/Vigors.

Also something on my mind is how she reminds me of Venom from Spider-Man. Think of the Phazon Suit from Prime 1 as Spidey's initial run-in with the symbiote (even have matching colors!), and the titular boss becoming the new "host".

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Tyranexx

It was a betrayal that I saw coming (process through elimination mostly), but still very well done. That was a very intense fight, and the music was very well suited to it. I hadn't been to a save point in a while, so that made things even more tense.

I've died in Hyper Mode once during that insane segment in SkyTown where you had to repel all the pirates from that makeshift bomb. That probably makes my top ten death scenes, in all honesty. I didn't even realize I had overloaded until the scene was halfway done.

Bryyo is by far my favorite planet, and that's partially because of the awesome war golems and architecture. Too, it's interesting to read about the fall and devolution of its inhabitants because of all-out war and, eventually, genocide. I'd say the Pirate Homeworld isn't far behind in terms of sheer design.

I skipped your last spoiler for now. XD

Edited on by Tyranexx

Currently playing: Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey, Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana (Switch)

"Love your neighbor as yourself." Mark 12:31

Haru17

@Tyranexx Your spoiler tag broke. IIRC you have to start a new line, the spoiler sharing a line with un-spoilered text breaks it.

100% corruption is more gory than Tomb Raider 2013 in a way.

Some of my favorite parts of the game are that tense segment you mentioned where you have to drop the SkyTown building you've MacGyvered into essentially an H-bomb. It's neat to have that building just plain gone from your map after. And then that one room on Bryyo where you can take control of that huge golem to throw of lift something.

Edited on by Haru17

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Pho

I finished the Prime Trilogy a few weeks ago to prepare, and started Zero Mission. But that and Other M will have to wait with SMO, and Xenoblade coming.

Poyo! <3

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Tyranexx

@Haru17: Fixed. XD I've never tried formatting a spoiler with a reply like that before. Plus, I constructed that post on and off for over two hours.

From the lore that I've gathered on the Pirate Homeworld so far, it seems as though Dark Samus hijacked leadership from their Command elite? While I like how intelligent she(?) seems to be here, I kind of miss the slightly more unstable portrayal of the character found in Echoes. I can't tell if the Pirstes are brainwashed/under her control from Phazon corruption, or if they're willingly following her. My guess is some of both tbh. Granted, I've only found the first five entries or so.

Currently playing: Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey, Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana (Switch)

"Love your neighbor as yourself." Mark 12:31

Haru17

@Tyranexx

Aren't there scan entries that say Dark Samus is becoming more intelligent in either Echoes or Corruption? I think it's that, part of her journey from a metroid to the alpha predator metroid to something resembling an intelligent human being in a power suit like Samus.

Suspense / intrigue plots are my favorite thing ever, so I'm biased, but I liked Dark Samus being one step ahead of the player/Samus for Norion, Bryyo, Elysium & the Pirate Homeworld. I don't remember anything about brainwashing, I think it's just that the Space Pirates chase after power more than a bad anime villain. So Dark Samus was easily able to sway them with a self-propagating body of phazon and a devious forming intelligence.

Edited on by Haru17

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

meleebrawler

@Tyranexx Probably just brainwashed, the second Pirate lore is pretty explicit about her "beguiling the minds of our crew", as is one of Elysian's about how they're not just corrupted, they're being sustained by their Phazon. Try thinking about that for a second. That said, she probably didn't corrupt ALL the Pirates, only the ones currently on the homeworld (2D Metroids with their Zebesians confirm Pirates come from multiple locations). Does beg the question what they were doing this whole time, though...

@Haru17 Not so much getting smarter (unless you consider evil laughter a sign of intelligence), just stronger and with more moves. And the Pirates were not happy at all about being corrupted, not the ones on the ship accidentally transporting her and certainly not the ones on the homeworld, who tried to stop the Leviathan from impacting their planet. If it was that simple, how did the hunters get corrupted?

Edited on by meleebrawler

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Tyranexx

"...beguiling the minds of our crew" is where I got a little confused, I think. I believe I had initially went with Haru's theory until that line. As you mentioned, I doubt all the pirates are corrupted, just the ones unlucky enough to be around when she appeared. Too, the scans mention doubters that were executed whenever she was gone for a period of time. I'm assuming then that these were the uncorrupted (or else not corrupted enough)?

I'm also curious as to whether corrupted organisms have a sort of hive mind (thinking back to a comment from Ghor) or if they're truly independent with their (albeit corrupted) thoughts.

Currently playing: Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey, Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana (Switch)

"Love your neighbor as yourself." Mark 12:31

meleebrawler

@Tyranexx It seems the exact effects of Phazon corruption varies depending on the individual, source and quantity of the material. Most creatures just become mindless berserkers, as do the Pirates when sufficient amounts are injected. Dark Samus herself seems to use a unique form of Phazon that gives her something of a psychic connection to whatever is infected by it. On top of being able to give orders to the victims that they cannot refuse, lest she simply cut them off of the substance that is now their lifeblood, it also brings their violent tendencies to the forefront of their personalities, plus standard addiction symptoms. This connection seems to be broken when the victim is moments away from death, at which point Dark Samus can then absorb their remains to potentially gain some abilities for herself.

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3DS FC: 2535-3888-1548

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