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Topic: Metroid Prime 4: The Long(er) Wait

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Haru17

@Tyranexx No, there's just one beam at the time. It gets upgraded and replaced with better ones. Plus Samus has a super powerful new type of alternate beam mode.

Edited on by Haru17

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meleebrawler

@MarcelRguez I don't really see what swappable beams add to puzzle-solving beyond the minor artificial difficulty of taking time to switch between them. In fact, puzzles and obstacles involving beams never really amount to much more than just making sure you actually have said beam, rather than utilizing any unique quirks about it (such as Light Beam's piercing). They'd work the same with or without stackable beams.

The main benefits to swapping are testing your knowledge with enemy weaknesses, as you mentioned, and simply changing up how you fight.

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bluemage1989

I think From Software would do an incredible job with Meteoid Prime 4. Id never considered them until hearing the idea here but the more I think about it the more I would love to see it.

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Haru17

If they're going to reimplement them in future prime games, they'd need to make beam swapping and super missiles just... quicker. The lead time on both of them makes them pretty worthless, inconvenient to use open doors, and just not great in combat.

It's a shooter, just have us press a direction on the D-pad and have it be instant.

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meleebrawler

@Haru17 Most shooters have weapon switching take time for anything other than small weapons like pistols for balance reasons. To punish you for not adapting to your current situation quickly enough, not using cover properly etc.

Prime, of course, isn't nearly as action-oriented so swap speed isn't as critical for the most part. The only time it strikes me as being a problem is with the final boss of 1, who keeps arbitrarily changing his single weakness as the fight progresses, sometimes repeatedly. Besides, the first two games on Gamecube handled swap controls exactly as you described it: push a direction on the C-Stick.

As for Super Missiles, they need that start-up to balance out their power and relatively cheap cost. There's a reason that Super Missiles with no charge time are restricted as limited time powerups in 2's multiplayer.

Edit: Also, load times are a much bigger time-waster at doors than any amount of swapping could ever achieve. You see them on your map, for crying out loud, and so can easily get the beam you need long before you actually open the door.

Edited on by meleebrawler

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MarcelRguez

@Haru17 For the time, yes. At least 1 and 2 were. I only played them fairly recently and they hold up.

What I was getting to was this: From has done first-person games that put immersion and atmosphere at the forefront before. Add to that the fact that they know a thing or two about level design and I'm comfortable enough to say they're one of the better choices out there.

@meleebrawler Think about noticing stuff you can melt in Phendrana. "Fire melts ice" is as simple as you can get in terms of puzzles, yet I still think having different beams can encourage careful observation of the environment by the player. It's a vital thing to add if you want to hide power-ups in subtle places.

One has to keep in mind that the trilogy is ancient by now in terms of tech. I'm sure what you mention about adding more properties to the beams and puzzles that benefit from those properties can be done much more easily now. In terms of physics and how to interact with your surroundings, I do think Prime could benefit from copying Breath of the Wild (again, without going full open). Any game could benefit from dynamic events that follow the logic of the real world, really, but all the more so when the game features stuff like fire, ice, electricity and the like.

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Bolt_Strike

Yeah, I didn't have any kind of problem with the beam switching speed, it was pretty reasonable. The only thing that really took too long was how long it took for doors to open (presumably because the game couldn't load the next room fast enough).

Bolt_Strike

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Haru17

@meleebrawler It's just more wasting my time in combat. Nothing needs to be balanced by slow beam swapping, it's just slow animations. They should continue to speed up certain aspects of fights, like with the melee counter added in Samus Returns so players have a response for enemies entering close quarters.

And super missiles just miss because they have such a gigantic, annoying lag time on not just charging, but the time between pressing the fire button and the attack leaving your arm canon. It's plainly a flaw when many enemies have missile-reflecting armor anyway.

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Grumblevolcano

I wonder if Metroid Prime 4 would have online multiplayer. As far as we know, Switch isn't going to have any 3rd party FPS games (CoD, Overwatch, etc. all skipping Switch) so do you think Nintendo will add in online multiplayer to make up for that?

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

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Bolt_Strike

Online multiplayer is a virtual guarantee. Nintendo's had a lot of success with their multiplayer titles recently and multiplayer helps make their games more evergreen (see: Mario Kart 8, Smash 4, Splatoon. ARMS may be joining that list too), so I can't see them not wanting to put Prime 2's multiplayer online and selling DLC packs for it.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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kkslider5552000

Bolt_Strike wrote:

I can't see them not wanting to put Prime 2's multiplayer online and selling DLC packs for it.

I can see a reason. The fact that no one cares about Metroid Prime 2's multiplayer and that they have far more successful games that use free DLC only.

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Haru17

I could see a different planet / story as expansion DLC. We'll have to see how substantial Breath of the Wild's is though.

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meleebrawler

All this talk of multiplayer, and no one mentions Hunters, the one game that arguably focused more on that than the single player? It was seriously ahead of it's time on the DS, multiple characters and a good number of modes. I'd like to see that come back... but only as long as proper context is given by the main story. Don't want a boring Samus free-for-all like Echoes. And they might just do that, if the devs plan on opening new story lines like they said in the interview... but on the other hand, any kind of multiplayer at all would kind of run counter to "going back to roots".

At this point, we could even see cooperative gameplay in the vein of Federation Force. Having all three types would make it a kind of first-person counterpart to Splatoon, with a larger focus on single-player.

Edit: Blah, I missed @DarthNocturnal mentioning Hunters 2. Well, the points still stand.

Edited on by meleebrawler

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Haru17

@meleebrawler I mean, Halo 1 was just a bunch of Master Chiefs running around. I'm not sure if the whole spartan thing came then or later. The problem with Hunters-style MP is that everyone wants to be Samus and roll up into a ball. And that maps have to be designed around the morph ball.

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Bolt_Strike

kkslider5552000 wrote:

I can see a reason. The fact that no one cares about Metroid Prime 2's multiplayer and that they have far more successful games that use free DLC only.

First of all, even back with Prime 3 there were a lot of people disappointed that Prime 2's multiplayer was cut, and the industry has changed a lot since then, multiplayer has become more and more important nowadays. So if they don't, people are going to be VERY vocal about it and I can see a lot of casual players skipping the game or tossing it aside after beating it. Having a multiplayer element keeps people playing it throughout the generation.

As for the DLC, I've never really played any of those multiplayer games so IDK which ones are paid and which ones aren't. Maybe some of them will be free. But I do expect some of them will be paid.

I can see DLC for single player too though, but I wonder just what they could add to it. Unless there's older powerups missing from the main game (which might feel like they're charging us for content that should've been in in the first place), it's going to be hard to justify extending the adventure.

Bolt_Strike

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MarcelRguez

If there's multiplayer, it's going to be an afterthought similar to Echoes'. Nintendo isn't going to throw Tanabe the budget necessary to do both an expansive single-player game and a hoard of multiplayer modes on par with Hunters. They guy has been trying to get the necessary funds for a new game since at least 2015 and we're only hearing about the project now.

Single-player DLC could work, especially if they go the "other side of the story" route with the space pirates, the GF, Sylux or whatever. Or make it a prologue episode or something to the effect that sets up the story of the main game.

MarcelRguez

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chriiiiiiiiiis

If Nintendo wants to make us pay for online they better give us reasons to use it so I would like to see Metroid have an online mode. I guess only time will tell though and to be honest, if I pick up Metroid, it will be for the single player experience.

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Bolt_Strike

MarcelRguez wrote:

Single-player DLC could work, especially if they go the "other side of the story" route with the space pirates, the GF, Sylux or whatever. Or make it a prologue episode or something to the effect that sets up the story of the main game.

I wouldn't mind seeing this, although I'm not sure if it would as DLC. I've always wanted a Metroid spinoff where you play as a Space Pirate, they have some cool tech that would be neat to play around with. Energy Scythes, EMP Grenades, and best of all, JETPACKS!

Bolt_Strike

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TuVictus

I'd prefer no DLC at all in any way shape or form, but if they do it, I'd prefer it be for a multiplayer mode that adding in story bits.

TuVictus

Haru17

I mean with the amount of time this game is going to take, it would make more sense to just have it skip another E3 and have all of the content at launch like Nintendo's know for outside of ARMS, Splatoon, and Mario Kart.

That being said, I would pre-order the season pass or whatever they go with faster than I even did Zelda's — provided that there's a singleplayer component with levels, etc.

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