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Topic: Mega Man 11

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New_Guest

How is this game?

I played the demo and thought that level was very short and the boss fight frustrating

New_Guest

GyroZeppeli

@New_Guest I hated the demo but the full game is great. Like any Megaman game, there’s no specific order so that block one doesn’t have to be the first one you fight.

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New_Guest

ok but are all levels that short though? i got to the boss super fast, i dont know the level seemed to easy and the boss too hard

New_Guest

Edelgard

@New_Guest The Block Man stage is the easiest one, this is pretty much a fact. The boss fight may be hard at first but they get a lot easier when you get their attack pattern. Using the Double Gear System at the appropriate times will also help out.

The game is overall short though. But a lot of fun IMO.

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New_Guest

Ok thanks i think i'll get it at some point

New_Guest

the8thark

New_Guest wrote:

ok but are all levels that short though? i got to the boss super fast, i dont know the level seemed to easy and the boss too hard

Honestly Mega Man 11 is one of the worst Mega Man games ever. I bought it and sort of regret it. I wanted to own it because it's Mega Man but it's just so bad. Gemes like 20XX and Mighty Gunvolt Burst are so much better.

I ended up writing a lengthy comment on youtube explaining why I think Mega Man 11 is such a terrible game. I'll copy/paste it here.

***

I've played Mega Man 11 quite a bit now - Switch port. I believe the game is NOT a masterpiece at all. Taking the graphics out of the equation as the Switch port does a few of the jaggies, as expected. I'll explain in point form why I think MM11 is not a master piece.
I am saying John has a different opinion to me on this. Differing opinions are ok though, nothing wrong with that. I just want to share where his and my opinions differ.

1. Level design.
The game is teach by showing and not telling as John correctly says. However this takes the Battletoads NES and MM1 aproach and not the later MM games approach. By this I mean sure the levels get progressively harder and slowly more and more complex, however the punishment for making a mistake is most often instant death. Apart from the end stage boss robots, I found none of the game difficulties any different. A mistake equals instant death. Taking damage doesn't matter in itself in the main parts of the stage. The huge knockback from each hit often results in instant death.
This is not a me sucking at the game problem, I've beaten it now a few times. The issue is not once ever did I even come close to dying in a stage due to lack of health. Of cause the harder difficulty boss robots kicked my ass till I got good at them, but the stages themselves yeah. This ends up with the player just zerging the levels, getting as far as they can. Dying and then using the new information to get a little farther. Games like MM2, MM3 and MMX 1-4 did this but the puhishment was often just you lost level progress by being knocked off a ledge or just accumulating too much damage in the level so you died. I feel that's a better way to do it.
The level design in MM11 is a good concept that is poorly executed.

2. Enemy design.
Many of the enemies here feel like they are ripped straight out MM1. Just given a paint job but functionally the same. The whole idea of less enemies on screen but getting hit by them or their projectiles often leads you into spikes or a pit is there. Sure this was good for the 1980's and MM1. But we're in 2018 now surely Capcom can do better. Heck, even MM2 did this better. The early MMX games did this really well also. Hits cost you level progress not death and too many hit killed you. So you did not lose a life between every attempt at a part of the stage.

3. The dual weapon system.
The whole super power or super slow mode thing. For the casual player it feels many of the segments in the stages are designed with the super slow in mind. Sub bosses that create tiny gaps to stand in, in random places that you need heaps of practice to beat or just cheese with super slow. I do feel the better solution there is to widen the gaps a little, not use the super slow so you push the player to get better and better at the sub bosses. This does mean I am saying the super slow is compensating for poor sub boss design.
For the main boss robots I think the same is true, it's better to get the player to learn the boss patterns through lower difficulties and move up when the player gets better. The only difference would be higher difficulties equals more dagame taken. Essentially giving the player less hits before they die each time.

The super power on the other hand is good in theory but a simple sharging of the special weapons accomplishes the same thing and adds in a better and easier to manage risk/reward system. Want a powered up shot? You have to charge it and thus lose the ability to shoot while it's charging. Simple and works every time. Having to remember to turn on super power for the charged up shots is just annoying. Sure it's doable, just not as elegant. It makes the boss battles flow a litttle less well as you're looking for a point where you can spam a few powered up shots or just ignore it all together and just use standard shots.

Overall the dual weapon system is not needed at all in the game and hold the game back from better enemy design choices.

4. Level Aesthetics
The whole theme of each stage is all over the shop. The enemies, stage itself and music don't match up into one choesive unit. I believe this also involves the level design to an extent. It feels Capcom here just tried to make stages that fit the set on enemies they ahd already created instead of making unitque enemies that fit the theme of the stage.
Some examples of level aesthetics done well?
Bubble Man - MM2. You have a boss all about bubbles, ie water. The stage is fulled with waterfalls and a water section. Also all the enemies are appropriately themed. Frogs, prawns, jellyfish, hermit crabs etc etc. Even the music feels slighty like something assiciated with water. It's amazing how well that was done considering the poor soundchip tech the NES had.

5. Music
The music here is average at best. It does not go well with the aesthetic each stage is trying to portray. Secondly, they are way too complicated. FInally they don't have the verse and chorus sturcture that the better older MM tracks had. The older better tracks had a main part fo the track as well as hook or chorus, a little but that gave excitment while playing and prevented the track from sounding too repetative. None of this exists in MM11.
I will say this issue is not unique to MM9. The MM music on the whole had been getting worse as the years have gone by. It seems that once the limits on sound chip technology were gone Capcom just did what they wanted. Back in the day you had to prioritise good musical composition over sound tech because better sound tech didn't exist. Now the sound tech exists to make all sorts of wacky compositions. This does not mean you chould make them for MM games. The tracks should be simple, catchy, fit the theme of the stage and just be really fun to listen too. This was achieved on the NES, SNES and PS1 (to an extent). Capcom clearly didn't use the older games for musical inspiration. I think they should have.

My Overall Conclusions
MM11 to me feels like it's MM1.5 with a paint job and HD textures/models. I am refering to the NES game here. Many of the design issues that first game had are present in MM11. What Capcom should have done was look to MM2 and MM3 and made MM11 similar to those. I don't know what the fascination with MM1 is. MM1 is a game of it's time. Ok for the 1980's but that's it. MM2 improved the whole concept in so many ways. Most of what classic MM is, is based on things that originated in MM2.
MM11 is not a bad game at all. it's good, worth getting. It's just that, good. Not in anyway a masterpiece, apart from getting every port to be a smooth 60fps. That is improessive.

I just hope MM12 is more like MM2 MM3 and MM4 and nothing like MM1.

the8thark

ed5275

I love this game. Very fun to pick up and play.

Switch: 5856-1332-4219

Dezzy

This is the first mega man game I've really played and I absolutely love it. I might have to go back and play the old ones now!
Are they all this same formula? I know the NES games are very similar in their style. I like the way you can choose which order to do the levels, and then it makes future levels easier because of the new power.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

linq

@Dezzy Yeah, 11 is a modernized version of the older Mega Man games. Mega Man 2 is a must play if you don’t mind going back to 8-bit era graphics. The first is good too but the boss rush at the end is brutal.

linq

Dezzy

@linq

Are all the other games the exact same formula too? What about the various SNES and PS1 games?

Nearly everyone says Mega Man 2 and 3 are the best.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

DarthNocturnal

Mega Man 1-11 use the “choose your level“ mechanic. I know some of the X games do as well. Possibly all of them, but I know the series shook some things up around 7 or 8.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

linq

@Dezzy The SNES Mega Man games are great too. Similar formula with some new characters and gameplay mechanics. The NES games just have more of that old school charm. Mega Man 2 has some of the best music from that era.

I really hope Capcom makes Mega Man 12 and puts it on Switch. One of the best franchises of all time IMO.

linq

Cotillion

@Dezzy The 'X' games typically follow the same formula as well, but add a bit of exploration to it, where you have to find X's upgrades throughout levels, sometimes revisiting level with new weapons to get them). So, X1 thru X6 deviate a little bit here and there (X6 having some stupid hard parts and the story gets a bit convoluted from this one forward), it's X7 were the series went weird. X7 tried to do 3D and it didn't pan out so well. I find it playable, but it's definitely an odd one. X8 is more traditional.

Of the classics, I agree that 2 & 3 are the best. 1 is good, but they hadn't perfected it yet and it's known for it's brutal difficulty in some places. 4 thru 6 are more of the same gameplay in new levels, I like them, but it really depends on how much more you want. 7 moved the classic series to SNES and so it looks a lot different and you don't get access to all 8 bosses at once like previous games. 8 was on the PS1. It's my least favorite of the classic series. 9 and 10 were made during the Wii/PS3 era, but in the style of the NES games. They can be tough, but were good games, IMO.

I'll note that the mainline series form one massive storyline, some parts of which have yet to be filled in (one notably huge gap between 2 of the series has yet to be shown).
Mega Man classic series -> X series -> Zero series -> ZX series.

This post ended up longer than I initially planned, but I've been a Mega Man enthusiast for about 30 years now, lol.

Cotillion

link3710

@Cotillion You forgot ZX->Legends. Or well, ZX->->->Legends considering the time jump between them.

On the topic of Megaman games in general, each subseries represents an entirely different gameplay style that doesn't vary too much between main titles (with the notable exception of X7). So all Classic games play the same, X, Zero, ZX, BN, SF, Legends. But then the spinoffs for each era can be just about anything.

Also, anyone have any clue why Megaman & Bass wasn't part of the classic pack? It was basically the original Megaman 9, feels weird that it wasn't included.

link3710

Dezzy

Just remembered I have the original collection on the 3DS, so I'll go and play those next.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Cotillion

@link3710 Yeah, I kinda left out Legends because of the huge time gap to it and that it is nothing at all like a traditional Mega Man game.

link3710 wrote:

Also, anyone have any clue why Megaman & Bass wasn't part of the classic pack? It was basically the original Megaman 9, feels weird that it wasn't included.

I'm very disappointed it wasn't included. We (will) have pretty much all the mainline series up to ZX on modern systems except this one game. That they omitted it is a weird choice.
Even when Mega Man 9 proper came out, this game still fits in the overall story and wasn't overwritten, so it makes no sense to omit just because it isn't a 'numbered' entry and has a bit of a different choice progression system.

Edited on by Cotillion

Cotillion

Dezzy

The bosses feel like 2D Dark Souls bosses to me.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Zeldafan79

Can we just get Mega man X9 already? Enough with the classic series!

Zeldafan79

toiletduck

This topic just peaked my curiosity again for the X series. Just watched some reviews and decided that I'm picking up legacy x 1 during the next Capcom sale. Will be nice with the SNES controller that's almost arriving!

toiletduck

PACO_PEREZ

Loved Megaman 11. I grew playing megman and maaan they are great and difficult. X games are Logically more modern then the numerical series. Which are great but more unforgiving to players. Anyone that liked this game should definitely play/buy the legacy collections.

If you like this game but want a more modern take on the series, I recommend Azure Striker Gunvolt: Striker Pack on switch. Is a more modern (and anime style).

Megaman games are great... Just... Just don't play megman 1... Really like.. Just ignore it... Is hell on earth in megman style.

PACO_PEREZ

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