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Topic: Super Mario Odyssey

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GoldenGamer88

@gcunit @Ralizah To this day, I have no idea how anybody could find enjoyment in this hellish minigame. By the time I finally reached 100, almost an entire day of nothing but jumprope had passed, several death threats to the two ladies swinging the rope were made and the Switch was almost thrown through a window. Did it once and NEVER again. This jumprope is the reason I‘ll never complete the game ever again!

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Ralizah

@GoldenGamer88 It's hellish until it's not, if that makes sense. Took me about thirty minutes this morning to pull this off, and I'd say 5/6 of that time was me struggling to clear 60 points. Once you get a good thing goin', though...

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

NEStalgia

@Luna_110 Yeah, I'm missing 2-3 purple coins in a lot of worlds preventing me from getting that final trophy for each. It's pretty annoying. Up to 760 moons though. I was hoping to 100% but there are a few challenges (some of those timed challenges in the next to last world are ABSURD, I burned 1200 coins , and that final gauntlet I keep getting so far but my patience wears out after repeating it so many times and I'll end up giving up.) Also, screw jump rope and volley ball. Those are simply obnoxious and not fun. (I would have thought @ralizah would have been content with THAT difficulty! )

@Agriculture 64 was emphasizing the freedom of motion previously unseen even if it broke puzzles and direct play. Free flight in a platform isn't really a great plan if the moons are located based on the ground physics rather than being just "anywhere." The Gushen is a glider, not a flying hat. It's not artificially limited, it's designed to do what it does. (Ok, lets be real, the Gushen is the Hylian Kite.......)

Odyssey (and Galaxy for that matter) build upon the lessons of 2D platformers in away that 64 kind of threw out the window as a grand (but flawed outside rose colored nostalgia goggles) experiment in the new medium of 3D. As a Mario player from day one, 64 always felt like a weird spinoff to me, not "the next Mario game." Galaxy and Odyssey feel like Mario games.

Mario reacts to slopes but the gravity isn't as sloppy as 64. And you can play with your moveset to cheat the system a bit, throwing your hat, wall jumping differently, etc. But it is designed around the physics of platforming more than the "sandbox" concept, which isn't a bad thing for the evolution of a platformer. Sonic could take some notes here.

NEStalgia

Anti-Matter

GoldenGamer88 wrote:

@gcunit @Ralizah To this day, I have no idea how anybody could find enjoyment in this hellish minigame. By the time I finally reached 100, almost an entire day of nothing but jumprope had passed, several death threats to the two ladies swinging the rope were made and the Switch was almost thrown through a window. Did it once and NEVER again. This jumprope is the reason I‘ll never complete the game ever again!

Wait, how did you almost throw your Switch ?

Anti-Matter

GoldenGamer88

@Anti-Matter Step 1: Get really really REALLY mad at the jumprope after hours of soul-crashing failure.
Step 2: Get up in a rage
Step 3: Take Switch out of its dock.
Step 4: Prepare to throw Switch in whichever direction you fancy.
Step 5: Stop yourself from throwing the Switch because you‘ve realized how much the system means to you.

@Ralizah Yeah, eventually I could get to 60 pretty easily and consistently but at that point I was just so choked up and nervous that I had a hard time keeping the rhythm.

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Agriculture

NEStalgia wrote:

@Luna_110 Yeah, I'm missing 2-3 purple coins in a lot of worlds preventing me from getting that final trophy for each. It's pretty annoying. Up to 760 moons though. I was hoping to 100% but there are a few challenges (some of those timed challenges in the next to last world are ABSURD, I burned 1200 coins , and that final gauntlet I keep getting so far but my patience wears out after repeating it so many times and I'll end up giving up.) Also, screw jump rope and volley ball. Those are simply obnoxious and not fun. (I would have thought @ralizah would have been content with THAT difficulty! )

@Agriculture 64 was emphasizing the freedom of motion previously unseen even if it broke puzzles and direct play. Free flight in a platform isn't really a great plan if the moons are located based on the ground physics rather than being just "anywhere." The Gushen is a glider, not a flying hat. It's not artificially limited, it's designed to do what it does. (Ok, lets be real, the Gushen is the Hylian Kite.......)

Odyssey (and Galaxy for that matter) build upon the lessons of 2D platformers in away that 64 kind of threw out the window as a grand (but flawed outside rose colored nostalgia goggles) experiment in the new medium of 3D. As a Mario player from day one, 64 always felt like a weird spinoff to me, not "the next Mario game." Galaxy and Odyssey feel like Mario games.

Mario reacts to slopes but the gravity isn't as sloppy as 64. And you can play with your moveset to cheat the system a bit, throwing your hat, wall jumping differently, etc. But it is designed around the physics of platforming more than the "sandbox" concept, which isn't a bad thing for the evolution of a platformer. Sonic could take some notes here.

Mario's run speed is affected by slopes, but that wasn't what I meant. In Super Mario 64 any interaction with a surface is dependent on what angle you hit it. This is especially obvious when flying or firing Mario out of a canon. If you hit Mario into a wall at an angle, his trajectory will change according to how you would expect it to. Super Mario 64 also had stars that where high up, and then you could use any means to get there.

Agriculture

NEStalgia

@Agriculture Yeah, the slopes did that, but it also breaks the lessons of 2D platforming. It's a tight balance and, IMO, 64 didn't get the balance right. Miyamoto was very infatuated with the newfound freedom of 3D at the time and was into experimenting with it. 64 shows it's role as an experiment by throwing out some important conventions that ground a platformer and throwing in more sandbox/experimentation elements. It didn't make 64 a bad game, but it made it fall short as a platformer evolved into 3D and made it a sort of sandbox game. The fact that they never quite duplicated those errors, is, IMO a good thing. 64 deserves its place in history, but it's objectively a very unrefined game with too many rough edges that defied its pedigree. I'm always surprised by how much a core group seems to revere that game. Other than Sunshine it always seemed like the red-headed step-child of the Mario lineup, and arrived marking a period of sharply diminishing Nintendo influence in the industry. I think a lot of NES/SNES players were a little off-put by 64, but a lot kids a little younger stared with 64 so it always has a rosier glow. It started good things, good things that bring us Odyssey today....but it's implementation wasn't the end-all.

@GoldenGamer88 At least I'm not the only one that hates that jump rope. It feels like something that either A) Wasn't playtested, or B) there's a trick to it we're all missing that we're supposed to be cheating with. The name "Jumprope genius" makes me think there's merit to that latter theory. I'm ok calling a game 100% when it means "100% of the parts that aren't broken."

NEStalgia

Ralizah

I'd never go for world leaderboards on the jumprope thing just because so many people have 99,999 points after abusing that one glitch with the bird.

Honestly, those rooms with the invisible platforms and poison-spitting piranha plants everywhere are about 100x harder than anything else in the game, last level and jumprope included.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

Agriculture

NEStalgia wrote:

@Agriculture Yeah, the slopes did that, but it also breaks the lessons of 2D platforming. It's a tight balance and, IMO, 64 didn't get the balance right. Miyamoto was very infatuated with the newfound freedom of 3D at the time and was into experimenting with it. 64 shows it's role as an experiment by throwing out some important conventions that ground a platformer and throwing in more sandbox/experimentation elements. It didn't make 64 a bad game, but it made it fall short as a platformer evolved into 3D and made it a sort of sandbox game. The fact that they never quite duplicated those errors, is, IMO a good thing. 64 deserves its place in history, but it's objectively a very unrefined game with too many rough edges that defied its pedigree. I'm always surprised by how much a core group seems to revere that game. Other than Sunshine it always seemed like the red-headed step-child of the Mario lineup, and arrived marking a period of sharply diminishing Nintendo influence in the industry. I think a lot of NES/SNES players were a little off-put by 64, but a lot kids a little younger stared with 64 so it always has a rosier glow. It started good things, good things that bring us Odyssey today....but it's implementation wasn't the end-all.

I'm not talking about any of those things. I'm talking about the game feel, and how Mario felt like a real entity in the game world, reacting how one would expect. In Odyssey he feels more artificial because of hard limits on what you can do. Comparing the flood from Sunshine and the Gushen capture from Odyssey it's very clear that Odyssey is more digital, while Sunshine is more analog. Of course I understand that the flood ruined a lot of platforming because it was overpowered, but it was much more fun to play around with because it didn't have the same limitations that the Gushen has.

It (the Gushen) goes from zero to full speed almost right away and has a hard limit on how high you can fly. The flood isn't like that at all, and you can freely experiment with it.

Agriculture

1UP_MARIO

@NEStalgia I was in a similar position finished the whole game just needed purple coins in the last areas. I gave up and used bowser amiibo

We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

NEStalgia

@Ralizah What's the bird trick? Do share! I can't get past 60 let alone 100, let alone 99,999

Oh geeze, yeah, that room with the invisible platforms, poison prihanas, and no hat is abusive. As is the bottom level moon of the "thousand bullet bills and a giant one behind you" (with no hat). It would be ok, but the long-jump controls are too fiddly to really be able to rely on them at the pace and precision needed to skip across, what, 6 platforms in a row, and the camera can never be locked to the right angle at the pace needed to spin back around when the big bill launches and get that fiddly long-jump sequence going. There was a third room with no hat there that I also skipped for the same reason, but can't remember what it was. That's 5 stars I don't think I'll ever get. Plus jumprope and vball (jumprope is abusive. vball I probably "could" do but the startup is so slow I have no desire to do it over and over until I get it.) Eventually I could probably get the last level, but it's frustrating redoing the early parts over and over just to keep retrying the last part. That pirhana and giant bullet room though....no thanks. Not ever.

@Agriculture We'll I don't think you're wrong. I suppose it's more digital. But technically I'd say a platformer MUST be digital...it was a genre born of digital limits. Translating that digital limitation to a 3D world has been quite a challenge, and one could argue with Odyssey, 20 years later, they finally nailed it. Galaxy did a pretty solid job too, so I guess it only took 13 years or so. Sunshine.....really was more sandbox than platformer, so I can excuse that as being really a different genre, and more of a spinoff than a core numbered title.

It may be more "digital" but I'm not sure if that's a bad thing.

NEStalgia

Ralizah

@NEStalgia

I dunno if it has been patched out or not, though.

While I'm not even close to 100% completing this game, I think I've obtained almost all of the hardest moons in the game. I did the ones where you have to walk in a circle. I did the ones where you have to reconstruct Mario's face. I did the one with the giant bullet bill and the small platforms. I did the one with the invisible platforms and piranha plants. I did the one where you have to run along a disappearing platform without a scooter. I did the last level. I did the ones where you knock sheep into goals at the end of the level. And I've completed several of the races.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

TuVictus

To cheese the jump rope, you can also use a certain object. It still requires your attention and input though. So it's not effortless. it got me to 200 and then I never touched it again

TuVictus

NEStalgia

@MisterPi If I'm thinking of the object you're thinking I thought the same thing, but it wasn't working out for me so I thought it wasn't workable....maybe I'll re try it with that. The scooter?

@Ralizah Wow, how do people find this stuff? That's some oddly specific requirements that don't seem like something you could easily identify even if you managed to make it work by accident once.

Wow, I don't know HOW you managed those things.....I've written most of it off as impossible. The invisible pirhana platforms, the long disappearing platform without the scooter....that's the one I was forgetting...I thought that was just flat out broken though I only tried it twice after trying and failing for 2000 coins worth of deaths between the giant bullet bill and the poison piranhas. The bullet bills even on the rare occasion (one out of every 20 times or so) I make it across the bottom forward, it just doesn't work going back. None of this is remotely fun trying and failing the same thing dozens of times in a row. I did do the sheep, and 100% of the races though. The races were fun. I got the walking circles. Picture match...forgot those....I can't get round 2 for the mario one.....I think I failed the goomba round 2 as well. I actually get a pretty decent looking result...but I'm still waaay off in points somehow.

NEStalgia

GoldenGamer88

@NEStalgia The scooter helps in so far that no matter how you press the jump button you always get the same height, unlike when you‘re playing with just Mario. I found its weight and landing animations, on top of the difficulty of getting into the minigame, too distracting to make this worthwhile.

What helped me getting more consistently into the 40-50s was playing in handheld mode. I do think that beyond that one glitch, the trick lies in one‘s ability of keeping a rhythm going. Don‘t know about you but I for one am not good with rhythms.

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Agriculture

NEStalgia wrote:

It may be more "digital" but I'm not sure if that's a bad thing.

All I'm saying is that it's way less fun to just mess around, jumping and flying in this game. My favorite level is the Seaside Kingdom, but I wish I could play as either Wing Cap Mario or Super Mario Sunshine-Mario in that level.

Agriculture

gcunit

@GoldenGamer88 I'm sorry, but your excellent description of your painful experience had me laughing.

@Ralizah Well done you 👏

It's funny, cos on my first proper go I got a score like 44 or something, got a moon, and was just going to move on. Then I saw there was a rankings screen and found I was in the 900000s. So I said 'F-this', had another go, and just found it easy. Once I crossed 200 I thought I'd save a clip of it, and of course it was the shifting of my mind from the rhythm of the rope to the feel of the capture button that made me f-up on 207. Job done, I was in the 70000s and far ahead of those on my friends list.

Then Ralizah steps up and blows me away so I go 'F-this' again, 'If I can get 207 easily on my second go (feeling like I could go on forever until I distracted myself) then I'll smash Ralizah's score into the Sand Kingdom', and then spent about 20 minutes trying but couldn't get over 200 once. Then I had to go and pick the kids up

It's weird cos I usually don't get on with mini games (like those in Zelda games) but this jump rope thing was an instant hit with me.

You guys had me at blood and semen.

What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

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NEStalgia

@GoldenGamer88 My grade school music teachers would certainly agree..... Terrible rhythm. Weird thing as I can do ok at Thumper, but it's kind of the arrhythmic game which probably explains it.

@gcunit If I get to 40 I feel like my head is going to explode and my finger is going to melt and then the rhythm goes out the window. It just gets too fast.

NEStalgia

GoldenGamer88

@gcunit Trust me, I was laughing, too. Maniacally when I was finally done.

@NEStalgia I feel like by 40-50 you can basically stop the rhythm and just keep tapping the jump button. Not faster but with it going so fast, you can‘t just watch for the dust or that damned woman shouting Hey so you better just concentrate on the tapping - and don‘t look at the counter. Had one try early on where I got to 98, looked at the counter, choked up and failed two jumps away. Was screaming and crying in pain, no jokes.

Edited on by GoldenGamer88

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