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Topic: Fire Emblem: Three Houses

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Tsurii

Yah... Edelgard kind of hints at her role after the timeskip in her second dialog thingy in forging bonds. Might wanna skip at least that.

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Heavyarms55

@Tsurii Oh please. Everyone resets. The challenge is beating levels without losing anyone. Beating the whole game without losing anyone is absurd.

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BougieBeetle

I'm a normal/casual boy. I just like to enjoy games, ya know? Fire Emblem can be so frustrating with perma-death, both for story reasons and gameplay reasons. I want to know what happens to a character, and I want to be able to use a useful character on future maps. The older games are still fun, but I hate having to reset a map due to a lucky crit or a reinforcement spawning behind me.

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Late

@Heavyarms55 You don't have to beat the game without losing anyone though?

I lose 5 or so characters each time I play through a Fire Emblem game. Losing a character in the middle of a battle can lead to memorable moments and you have to be on your toes all the time. If you can just reset as soon as one of your units die, what keeps you from just throwing your units to dangerous situations until it finally works out? Losing a unit leads to interesting decisions, especially when it's someone like the early game class changed unit who kills everyone in one or two hits for the first half of the game.

I understand why people want to play Casual Mode. It's a fun way to experience the game without needing to worry about losing units. I like games like Shining Force and Advance Wars, that don't have perma-death, just as much if not more. Resetting in Classic is just playing in Casual Mode but redoing the same chapter for no good reason. It's not tied to Classic either. If someone wants to reset after a death, they could just as well do it in Casual. Resetting, in my opinion, is just waste of time.

Which is harder, playing through the original Super Mario Bros. like it was intended (once you're out of lives, you start from the beginning) or using a save state at the beginning of each level? Resetting in Fire Emblem is the same thing but instead of trying to save time by not doing the earlier Mario levels again, you are using more time by doing the same stuff you already did but this time luck was on your side or you could do better because you knew the layout beforehand.

I always get carried away when I find a topic I like. Sorry. Just used one of my vouchers to buy Three Houses. Currently leaning towards Golden Deer but I'll make my final decision once I have the game and I get to know the characters.

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Ralizah

@Tsurii It's not about elitism. It's about changing the way the game plays. If units are disposable, I'm going to play much more loosely than I am if I'm in danger of losing my units. I don't see how resetting conflicts with that. Choosing not to reset makes no sense to me in any game where RNG in a factor, to be perfectly honest.

Ralizah

Ryu_Niiyama

I reset because I like to figure out the flaw in my strategy. FE is likely the only game that isn't a fighting game that I don't play as a game. I wish that they had an in game function to allow for a level reset. Like you beat the map and then see the story parts and then it asks you if you want to repeat (if you lost someone in battle). It's like when I play chess or shogi. If the CPU kicks my panties or if it is a battle won by attrition then I usually replay to work on playing more intelligently. I get that casual mode is similar but you don't have the game holding you accountable anymore. Just how I feel about it of course.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

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BougieBeetle

Even on casual mode I attempt not to lose units, since that means the unit won't gain experience for the rest of the fight, and I won't be able to utilize it against other enemy units. So I don't think playing on casual creates a mindset of unit disposability. Suicide attacks or sacrificial defenses wouldn't be all that beneficial in Fire Emblem where victory usually hinges on your units defeating much larger cohorts of enemy units. You need your units to survive and keep taking useful actions.

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Luna_110

@Ralizah
Exactly this!
If I know my units will be back on the next chapter, I won't hesitate on leaving one (usually the Jeigan) to be bait for the mooks ,for example, in a map I need to rescue someone. Or in a defend map, I'll just put someone in a chokepoint but won't be as worried as I am in classic (where I'm checking and making calculations if the unit can last through the enemy phase).
Classic mode simply restrics some of your strategies, and that is what I like about it. It does force you to be far more conservative, and when you do decide to gamble, it's because you're praying to the RNG Goddess that she won't screw you, because if she does, you lose the character for good.

I have a chronic lack of time, for everything.

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Grumblevolcano

The only game I regret using classic is Echoes because of Thabes' Labyrinth but really that dungeon should've had save points.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

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JaxonH

Ya, despite always playing casual post-Awakening, I have played previous games and totally get the appeal of permadeath.

And I mean, the real appeal. Of making tough choices like “do I restart the entire map or make due losing my best Pegasus knight knowing I’m close to the end?”. Which actually happened to me in Fire Emblem 7 on GBA. And I made the decision not to replay the map, because I had already spent more than an hour on it and didn’t want to replay it all over again, especially after having to replay a map not long before hand for missing the recruitment of Jaffar.

And I really want that in Three Houses. I’m not sure if I’d have the nerve if it wasn’t for the timewheel. The timewheel takes the edge off, knowing it’s ok to make one blunder, even two, and still be alright. And a lot of times you get in a bad situation it’s not because of one bad move, it’s because of a whole series of bad moves due to lack of foresight. So while you could just rewind one or two moves back, I kind of feel like rewinding is going to account for much more than that in some cases. Sure, one move may save your unit but if your unit was in a bad spot due to poor strategy and foresight it’s going to take more than one move to get yourself out of that. They very well might die three turns later because you’re still in a bad spot.

I’m just ready for a classic playthrough. I do think 4 timewheel moves is excessive though. I hear it starts with 2 but can upgrade to 4 later. Should’ve started with 1, with an upgrade to 2 later. That would have been fair.

Edited on by JaxonH

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Heavyarms55

@Late That's the thing though, Mario was intended for you to start over once you ran out of lives. Fire Emblem is not. The intention is for you to beat individual levels without losing anyone. Otherwise they'd have the auto save function save after every turn with no ability to load a previous save at all. Something they could easily do. When a character dies and you get to the end of the game and it just says "Serra: Died in Chapter 22" it clearly says to me they aren't meant to die, there is no story component. You're supposed to finish the game with her alive. The idea of clearing the entire game without losing anyone is like a Nuzlocke in Pokemon, a fanmade challenge. Now I am sure there are die hard fans out there who would like it, but by no means is it the intended way to play. If you want to self impose those rules on yourself, that's on you. But as far as I can see, they allow you to reload the start of a level on purpose, they have at least since the GBA games. So they intended to allow the player to do so.

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LzWinky

My problem is that 90% of the time I lose units to RNG BS. Enemies get crits galore and gang up on some random unit that's not my lord.

Casual FOREVER!

...on the flip side, if I know I screwed up and made a mistake, I'll start over the chapter.

Edited on by LzWinky

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Heavyarms55

@LzWinky I get the distinct feeling you don't like card games. Or Pokemon. Seems like you really hate RNG.

To be fair, no one likes dying to that random crit but...

Edited on by Heavyarms55

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DarthNocturnal

@LzWinky

Fire Emblem AI 101: Target the weakest unit in range.

They don't care if your Lord can one shot them. They will target that poor Mage who just finished reading “My First Spellbook“.

Edited on by DarthNocturnal

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LzWinky

DarthNocturnal wrote:

@LzWinky

Fire Emblem AI 101: Target the weakest unit in range.

They don't care if your Lord can one shot them. They will target that poor Mage who just finished reading “My First Spellbook“.

Hate to break it, but it's completely random. They could target one of my middle strong characters

There was one chapter where they ran past my lord and the weakest unit to gang up on another unit. I wish I was making this up!

Edited on by LzWinky

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LzWinky

Heavyarms55 wrote:

@LzWinky I get the distinct feeling you don't like card games. Or Pokemon. Seems like you really hate RNG.

To be fair, no one likes dying to that random crit but...

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CanisWolfred

@LzWinky Don't forget the times enemies just spawn right text to your units and get in a free turn, killing your units because you had no way of knowing in advance where they'd show up...

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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DarthNocturnal

@LzWinky

The calculations for weakest may not be as straightforward as level. Do you remember the exact units?

It's still a good general rule of thumb either way. Checking ranges to ensure any unit doesn't get ganged up on is important (unless they're a high Defense character who laughs at such numbers).

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LzWinky

DarthNocturnal wrote:

@LzWinky

The calculations for weakest may not be as straightforward as level. Do you remember the exact units?

It's still a good general rule of thumb either way. Checking ranges to ensure any unit doesn't get ganged up on is important (unless they're a high Defense character who laughs at such numbers).

Not specifically, but I do remember them being in the middle.

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RedderRugfish

Fire Emblem AI definitely is more interested in getting kills at all costs rather than actually using strategy or being a productive army. Or at least, that's how it was in the ones I've played (Shadow Dragon and the GBA games)

In regards to the casual vs hardcore debate, as someone who's never played a FE game that even had the option of casual mode, I have no idea how the game would work without permadeath because the entire game is built around it.

The game's mechanics are pretty simple compared to other strategy RPGs, there's not much intense job grinding, the levels are usually not at all hard to beat if you don't care about losing units, and it's really easy to figure out how far the enemies can move and how much damage they can do to each of your units along with the odds of them landing a successful hit. The only thing motivating you to put thought into the game is the threat of losing someone, which singlehandedly makes it a very strategy oriented game.

I can understand being intimidated by the concept of losing characters forever if they die, but permadeath is basically the only thing that makes the game challenging or interesting compared to games like Tactics Ogre or Final Fantasy Tactics, and I can't understand how the gameplay would work without it.

I haven't played Awakening or any games released after it, but I figured I'd throw my two cents into the ring to give the perspective of someone who never had the option of casual mode.

Edited on by RedderRugfish

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