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Topic: Do you think we will ever get the ability to sell digital games to another person?

Posts 41 to 60 of 104

GameOtaku

@Cotillion
But unlike physical games you cant find them much later down the road. Maybe you missed out on one for one reason or another, maybe it was removed from the eshop due to licensing or some other nonsense like finding it has an exploit.

Edited on by GameOtaku

GameOtaku

Mountain_Man

Link-Hero wrote:

I've chatted with plenty of people and read online posts that refuse to buy the game new and wait a while to get it used. Why, you ask? So they can get it "a couple of bucks cheaper."

It can be more than just a couple of bucks if you shop smart. I bought a used copy of Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate a few months ago for almost half of what it sells for new. Same with a recent acquisition of LEGO City Undercover. Even a top selling game like Super Mario Odyessy can be had for as much as $10 off, and even more in the right circumstances.

Link-Hero wrote:

IA lot of people think that getting a "legal" physical used copy somehow supports the industry.

They think that because it does. Do you know what a store like Gamestop does with the money from used game sales? They use it to support their business which includes purchasing new games from publishers to keep their stores stocked. It's a win for everybody.

The Mountain Man

Cotillion

Mountain_Man wrote:

They think that because it does. Do you know what a store like Gamestop does with the money from used game sales? They use it to support their business which includes purchasing new games from publishers to keep their stores stocked. It's a win for everybody.

This is based on the assumption that the majority of second-hand sales happen through a retailer like Gamestop. I'd be genuinely surprised if that was the case.
The term "used" doesn't apply to digital, either. If you resell a digital game, it is not used. You are transferring data. An exact and perfect copy of it that has never been played or used in any way.
The version the buyer gets is a new version of the same game you once had. Essentially, whats being asked here is for gaming companies to take a loss on new digital sales, so you can sell someone else the same digital copy for cheaper. Never going to happen.

We aren't talking about selling a disc or cart that may have damage, wear and tear, that someone handled, may be missing inserts or have a damaged case or deteriorated in any way. It is also not finite medium. Discs and carts stop being made, meanwhile digital can, in theory, be sold brand new forever.
We're talking about reselling new digital games for cheaper than the company themselves are selling it for. It makes no sense to think this is something they would even consider, let alone embrace and provide.
Digital reselling is essentially being a digital distributor, since you are selling new copies of games. Just with the intention of undercutting the actual distributor and giving nothing to the games creator.

I get what you guys are trying to say and argue, but physical and digital just aren't comparable. They are very different mediums and there's far more factors than just "we bought it" and "we can with physical".

Edited on by Cotillion

Cotillion

GameOtaku

@Cotillion
Just look at the Wii shop exclusives! No way to get ahold of them anymore! But look someone wants to sell their digital game since they no longer play it! They sell it you you then you can have the game.

GameOtaku

Cotillion

@GameOtaku Well for one, if you didn't get something during the decade or more the shop was open, with ample warning it was closing, that's just too bad.

But, digital has no "used". It just doesn't apply. If you sell a new copy of a digital game, you are distributing it for money. You are not a licensed distributor.
The same goes for a game where the franchise license has expired. You do not have the license to sell products with that franchise.
It opens so much legal crap to allow digital reselling.

You may claim you bought it, so you have the right to sell it, but you don't. You didn't buy anything tangible. You bought a license to download code and assets (which belong to the company that made them) for usage on a particular system. You did not pay for the right to distribute digital games.
The company has the right to sell their own digital games and decide who gets the license to also sell them. They also reserve that right for sale later. Nintendo may well open up the Wii shop again on Switch 2.
You can't apply the term "used" or "preplayed" to digital. It just doesn't exist. How would even define it? The copy the buyer gets is new. You never played it, but you sold it to them? You have to think of it as redistributing new games without the company getting anything from it, because that's what it is. And when you think of it as it actually is, it makes perfect sense as to why they will never allow it.
There is nothing to compare it to that currently exists, except other digital media which also cannot be resold (or possibly even illegal, I can't find anything that says the ruling in the USA was changed in any way, so I presume it still stands as illegal).

As a side note, I have some digital games I regret buying. They fell short and I don't enjoy them. Sure, I;d like to get some cash back for them, but I know full well I never will and why. Since then, I have learned to be more scrutinizing of reviews and making sure I know what I'm buying.

Edited on by Cotillion

Cotillion

GameOtaku

@Cotillion
Maybe you didn't own a Wii during that period or maybe you picked one up recently. There's always emulation since if the shop is closed they aren't making any more money off of them.

And sorry no. If you buy something then you own it and should be allowed to do anything you want with it, that was one of the biggest reasons the courts ruled in favor of the game genie.

Edited on by GameOtaku

GameOtaku

shadow-wolf

Cotillion wrote:

You only need to change a few key words in this thread about wanting to resell digital games and it reads pretty much the same as the argument for defending digital piracy.

The comparisons to physical objects here doesn't apply. Physical objects degrade and depreciate. They have a finite supply that affects demand.
None of this applies to digital. If you resell it, you are reselling a brand new copy. If you want to compare it to physical, reselling a digital game is the same as buying a game from the store, leaving it sealed, then reselling it like that. The car analogy is even worse. You buy a new car, but you are not reselling a new car when you get rid of it. Its had wear and tear, thousands of miles on it. Dings, dents, faded paint, etc. It's just not the same.
So, how do you mark down a digital? It's not used or preplayed. It's not even the same "item" as a physical disc/cart would be - it's a perfect copy of it, still worth as much as the original price.
It is very much akin to piracy. Its brand new perfect copies of the same game being distributed without the creators seeing a penny of the sales from their game.

The only way to legitimize it is to resell through a storefront where the creator gets a portion of the sale. But again, for what price? Its still the exact same brand new copy of the one in the actual eShop. But why would they offer this when they can sell the exact same thing at full price?

No matter how much people may cry and/or complain about it, there's zero incentive for the industry to do this as it is a complete loss for them.
I believe there was even a count ruling in the States a few years ago where reselling digital music was ruled illegal. I'm not sure the legality of that now, but not only is there no incentive for them to do it, it may be illegal in some areas.

Since the issue is, in essence, wanting temporary ownership of a game, then this is where digital rentals comes into play. You want to buy a game, have it for a while and then resell it. Instead you will be able to pay a much smaller fee to have it for a while. This is what digital movies and shows do now.

Wow - you raised some good points that I didn't think of. Now that I consider what you've said, you're right — considering that selling digital copies without publishers getting any money out of it is essentially digital piracy, it's almost certainly not going to happen. Even what someone earlier in the thread mentioned — having the publisher get a cut of the sale — wouldn't happen as you said since at that point no one would have any incentive to buy brand new.

Dezzy wrote:

Never gonna happen. The best we'll probably get along this line is digital rentals. Pay 1 price to own the game permanently, pay a lower price to rent it for a week, if you have the spare time to blitz through it.

As both @Dezzy and @Cotillion suggested, digital rentals will probably be the only realistic way one could get a digital copy of the game cheaper than the brand-new price (besides sales/discounts or game passes).

Edited on by shadow-wolf

shadow-wolf

GameOtaku

@shadow-wolf
It's all in the wording. If it's a rental you don't own anything much like back in the day your time with the product in finite compared to outright buying it and having no limit imposed on you. A book published may be out of print or maybe it was only sold on ebooks, it may come back in print or available down the line but whose to say it will? It could be lost for all time potentially. So you could scrounge around a used book store and pay a higher retail price or find someone willing to sell you the reader. Several ps4s on sale on eBay have Deadpool or PT in them and are higher than other used ones simply because the games were digital only and have been removed!

GameOtaku

Link-Hero

Mountain_Man wrote:

It can be more than just a couple of bucks if you shop smart. I bought a used copy of Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate a few months ago for almost half of what it sells for new. Same with a recent acquisition of LEGO City Undercover. Even a top selling game like Super Mario Odyessy can be had for as much as $10 off, and even more in the right circumstances.

How cheap you can get a game used is not what I'm going for at all with that quote. It's an example I've personally experienced to show how uncaring and unsupportive those people are to the gaming industry.

Mountain_Man wrote:

They think that because it does. Do you know what a store like Gamestop does with the money from used game sales? They use it to support their business which includes purchasing new games from publishers to keep their stores stocked. It's a win for everybody.

Here's the thing, I want the money to go to the company that made the product, not the ones who are selling it. It's one of the big reasons why I'm such a supporter of digital downloads since I know that most of that money is going directly to the developers and publishers.

Edited on by Link-Hero

Link-Hero

Nintendo Network ID: LinkHero25

GameOtaku

@Link-Hero
To me a digital download is the equivalent of a self checkout line. You are paying for the cartridge ala the sd card on top of the game you buy digitally. Self checkout lines you not only have to pay for groceries but you have to bag them too.

In an ideal world if you bought a game digital you should have it permanently and not have to download or buy it again. You'd just transfer the data from one gen to the next. This is what a lot of us wanted from vc. If you bought it on 3ds you shouldn't have to buy it on wiiu and you could have it again at no charge on the switch. It's the same games over and over and no difference at all between the games on either of the 4 systems.

Edited on by GameOtaku

GameOtaku

Mountain_Man

Cotillion wrote:

[This is based on the assumption that the majority of second-hand sales happen through a retailer like Gamestop.

They are, to my knowledge, the largest game-only retail chain in the US, and used sales make up the lion's share of their profit. But you're right, between mom-and-pop stores, eBay, and in-person sales, I can't say for sure that a retailer like GameStop is the largest source of used software.

But really, the argument against used games could be made against any used item, such as second hand sporting goods, or the innumerable thrift stores like Goodwill or the Salvation Army that populate the country (I'm speaking of the US, but I assume other countries have something similar).

The Mountain Man

Link-Hero

@GameOtaku
Wait, rebuying a game? I'm not sure what you are getting at as that isn't normal to have to repurchase a digital title. Unless you are talking about getting the same game for a different or newer gaming device, of course, you have to for multiple reasons.

Link-Hero

Nintendo Network ID: LinkHero25

GameOtaku

@Link-Hero
That is exactly my point. Unlike discs or cartridges digital data is easily transferable. So for example VC if you bought Super Mario Bros on Wii VC, then you shouldn't have to rebuy it on 3ds, Wiiu or Switch since it's the same game and there's no difference between one consoles vc titles to the others. Heck is go further to say if you bought Megaman Legacy digital on either wiiu or 3ds you shouldn't have to rebut it again on switch. After all you paid for the game, there's no difference in the Nintendo ports. Isn't that what gamepass on Xbox is essentially doing or am I reading it wrong?

GameOtaku

Link-Hero

@GameOtaku
Had a feeling that was it. First off, even though the game looks and plays identically, it doe not mean it is the same underneath within its coding. Depending on the hardware, the game either has to be optimized a little bit differently, or be made in a completely separate programming language. The game's coding is the biggest reason why transferring isn't a simple process. The game being in a physical or digital format does not change that. There's a lot more effort put into ports and remasters then you think.

Edited on by Link-Hero

Link-Hero

Nintendo Network ID: LinkHero25

GameOtaku

@Link-Hero
You can run older computer games on newer ones though it's the same principle here. VC is the same it's the same ROM on all 4 systems. I could see the argument if it was Sony to Nintendo games but in the same line it shouldn't be an issue.

GameOtaku

Cotillion

@GameOtaku Sorry, its not even an argument. You are completely wrong.
From Nintendos own user purchase agreement:
Some Products, such as software and digital content, are licensed, not sold, to you pursuant to the limited license in Section 2 of the Agreement, and your license to use these Products will immediately terminate if you violate the Agreement (including any of these Terms).

And here's the "Section 2" that points to:
Subject to your compliance with the terms and conditions of the Agreement, NINTENDO hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to install and use one (1) copy of the Game Software solely and exclusively for your personal and non-commercial use. This Agreement shall also apply to any patches or updates you may obtain for the Software. IN ACCORDANCE WITH AND NOT INTENDING TO LIMIT ANY OF THE PROVISIONS OR PROTECTIONS SET FORTH HEREIN, DUPLICATION, COPYING OR ANY FORM OF REPRODUCTION OF THE GAME SOFTWARE OR RELATED INFORMATION, MATERIALS OR OTHER CONTENT TO ANY OTHER SERVER OR LOCATION FOR THE PURPOSES OF DUPLICATION, COPYING OR ANY OTHER FORM OF REPRODUCTION IS EXPRESSLY AND EXPLICITLY PROHIBITED. This license does not give you any title or ownership in the Game Software, and should not be construed as a sale or transfer of any intellectual property rights to the Game Software. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are hereby reserved by Nintendo and, as applicable, by its licensors.

Simply put, it is a license to use it. You do not own it in any way and you agree to this when you pay them. You have absolutely no rights to sell it, transfer it or copy it.

And it goes on to further drive the point home in subsequent sections that you have no rights to do anything with the software except to play it on the system you bought it for.
Section 4 is pretty noteworthy to the topic at hand:
4. NO SALE OR ASSIGNMENT

NINTENDO does not recognize the transfer of the Game Software. Therefore, you may not give, purchase, sell, bargain, barter, market, trade, offer for sale, sell, license, assign or otherwise divest your rights, responsibilities or obligations under the Agreement, either in whole or in part, without the prior written consent of NINTENDO. Any attempt to do so shall be void and of no effect.

You agree to this when you buy and install the game.

Edited on by Cotillion

Cotillion

GameOtaku

@Cotillion
Cough*** Hack*** Crossbuy, Cough Cough Gamepass, Cough X Hack Hack Account system

Regardless of legalize if you buy something you own it plain and simple.

GameOtaku

Cotillion

@GameOtaku Yes, you do own what you buy. But, you are not buying digital games from Nintendo. You license it's usage and nothing more, plain and simple.
If you've paid for and installed a digital game, you agreed to these terms. Just because you don't think that how it is doesn't make it so. Just because you didn't read or understand them doesn't make them void.
Microsoft would have it's own end-user and purchase agreements to cover Gamepass and cross-purchases. I'd bet they have similar terms within them. I'm not going to go look them up, because I don't think you actually care what the facts are here.

Edited on by Cotillion

Cotillion

BruceCM

That is a reason people get physical games where possible.... But it's the same with digital ones on Android, PS, xbox &, I'm sure, iOS & steam

SW-4357-9287-0699
Gamertag: BruceCM

GameOtaku

@Cotillion
I care what the actual facts are. In the license for gameboy games it says they are licensed for play on gameboy. But wait I played it on GBC and GBA! I was in violation of the terms of the license?! If digital is the future then it needs to have structure and not rip people off every gen for buying the same game multiple ways from Sunday!

As far as I can read from the end user agreement I get something else out of it than you do, it says it's non transferable but is that to someone else or another switch? As long as the game is licensed to you then that opens up the argument for crossbuy as I'm still licensed the virtual console games.

But that brings up a horrible thought! If they wanted to they could simply end everyone's licenses to the game in an update making your game unplayable or else held ransom until you pony up more cash to play!

Edited on by GameOtaku

GameOtaku

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