Topic: Digital vs physical

@NEStalgia Whenever I play some of my cartridge base games I remember how much I like pushing power and the game starts up right away.

@Hikingguy That might be a "be careful what you ask for" thing though. If they open sharing in a real way (like a license transfer) they'll take away the ability to both play simultaneously....ultimately they'd rather you buy two copies....

Of course Nintendo locks it all to the hardware rather than account which makes zero sense at all. PS4 and X1 already do co-op with a single purchase (including DLC....) Only for two consoles, your "primary" plus whatever one you're logged into at the time. Someone else plays on their account on your "primary" and you play logged in on any other machine (you have to be online, of course...) Microsoft calls it "Home XBox" and sells it as a feature of Gold. Sony doesn't advertise it, people just call it "game sharing" but it works the same way. That's the main reason I went all digital on my X1. It cut my game budget in half Nintendos the retro one here, but Sony could always follow on PS5....

Yeah, I do miss "instant on" for cartridge games. At least suspend/sleep simulates that on modern machines It's as close as we'll get, but I'll take it

@Zuljaras As I said, it may be a result of when I bought those particular games, but half my physical disks require an internet connection to install the game because they do not contain the full game on the disk. Talked with a friend who bought the same games, but a few months after I did. And he had no issues installing the games in question without an internet connection. And none of the games in question are Microsoft first party games.

Microsoft may not have 'hidden downloads'. But when a 3rd party releases a game, they don't really have a say in how much of the game is actually on the disk vs in the day one patch. the last Tony Hawk's game for example, they put the tutorial on the disk then released that, and the rest of the game was a Day One patch. Done because Activation was about to lose the license, so they released the last game before it was ready (while they still could).

@NEStalgia
You can have an account across multiple systems so I think it's fairly safe to assume cloud saves will work between consoles. If they didn't I'm not sure what the point of allowing your account to be in multiple places would be.....

@FaeKnight This is bizarre. I have never heard of something lime that. Could you share 2-3 games of those you had problems with?

I already did when I did an experiment of "unplug the modem and router, then try installing and playing all XB1 game disks". But here it is again.

For reference, here is a list of my XB1 games I have on disk and their play-ability without internet to initially download:

Dragon Age Inquisition: requires download of most of the game (tutorial stage is on disk)
Fallout 4: requires a download, not sure what exactly the game installed but it wont run without a patch
Deus Ex Mankind Divided (day one edition): requires download of main game (the side game is on disk)
Doom: requires download of everything but first stage
Geometry Wars 3 Dimensions Evolved: everything is on the disk
Battleborn: full base game is on the disk
Rare Replay: Everything is (surprisingly) on the disk, yes all 8 or 9 full arcade titles too
Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls: reaper of souls expansion on disk but not base game that's included

And as I mentioned, a friend who has the same games but bought them a couple months after release can install and play all 8 titles without any issues without internet.

Oh, and I guess you never heard of the Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 5 debacle then. Activision pushed the game out before it was ready so they could release it before losing the rights licensing rights. But since the game wasn't finished when they needed to start making disks, they just put the tutorial on the disk and made the rest of the game (that was 'finished' by the day of launch) as a Day One Patch.

As a collector, I'll keep buying physical for as long as I possibly can. I just think there's something very special and pleasurable about seeing a physical collection grow and having real tangible objects to look at and hold. I collect eShop games digitally (obviously), so it's not as if I can't do it, but it feels like there's something missing. Like I bought Azure Striker Gunvolt on the 3DS eShop when it came out and loved it so much that when it came out physically on Switch later on, I felt I had to get it, so I could "properly" have it in my collection, if that makes any sense.

It's like with books; holding and flipping through a physical book just feels nice and seeing text and artwork printed on paper is nice. It's all so beautiful and tactile in a way that an ebook just can't recreate.

It's also nice to know that if I do buy a stinker, I can sell it on and get at least some money back for it (unlike when I buy a highly recommended indie game that I think is absolute dross and can't even sell it on...)

I went fully digital with my CD and DVD collections a few years ago as I felt like the writing was definately on the wall there. As much as I obviously like the physical collection side of things, taking out a CD and loading up a new one, or carrying a load of CDs with me on the train or whatever does seem so antiquated and redundant now, with MP3s/streaming, not to mention the decluttering aspect, but still, I can't deny it was done with a heavy heart and part of me does really miss them.

@Haywired
I must be the odd one out because I feel entirely the opposite. For me games are the same whether they're digital or physical copies. Because they are literally the same, bit for bit. The only thing with games is the tighter DRM on digital purchases which means absolutely nothing when you're not the sort of person who likes to sell or lend out their collections. So for games I feel it just comes down to cost vs convenience. Is the extra $10AU or whatever worth it for the convenience of having it always on your console? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

With music and especially with movies you don't get the same product at all. If I buy a movie on BluRay I get a full 1080p, high bitrate movie with a high bitrate 7.1/5.1 soundtrack. I can then choose to rip that disc to a HDD at some reduced quality or at the very least can play that disc on any TV in the house. If I go for a 4K disc I get the even higher bitrate 4K copy AND a standard 1080p BluRay. Non physical copies on the other hand have all sorts of limitations and restrictions. Whether it's Netflix shuffling out your favourite movie or iTunes not letting you watch the video unless you have an Apple device. All of this is made worse by the significantly lower quality.

For music the difference is less dramatic because a high quality MP3 is about as good as CD quality anyways. But even so, you can rip a CD with almost zero effort. Pretty much everyone who buys CDs still would do this. So when you buy a CD you're effectively getting a digital copy of the album anyways. The way I see it if I am able to get the CD without having to really hunt for it or pay through the nose? I'll get the CD for an MP3 copy and a box

So, if anything, I think games make the most sense as a digital copy. I'll pay more for a digital copy of a game. But with movies I'll never go with a digital copy outside of the convenience of Netflix. And with music I'm actually willing to pay a little bit extra to get the CD copy because I'm going to get an MP3 copy either way.

@skywake Logic would dictate that's true. But this is Nintendo. We can also have an account across multiple systems but our digital purchases are hard locked to only one, forbidding even downloading demos on any system while using the eShop under an account that's not that system's primary, flying in the face of how any digital store and account system has run since the X-BOX (2001.)

Meanwhile one would assume cloud saves work the same way cloud saves work on every single other console with cloud saves, ever. Except that email they sent out the other day (which I can't find for some reason, but the text matches the on-Switch "News" item for NO as well, if you go into the News app on Switch and look for the most recent "Nintendo Online" related tile, the content is the same as that email. It's a pain to search on mine because most of the news is in Japanese )

Anyway, it described cloud saves as something like a way to make it easy to transfer your data if your Switch is lost or stolen or you move to a new Switch. I.E. it described cloud saves as a remote backup for doing an online system transfer.....not as account driven access to your saves from any Switch. It did more to confirm that a new and improved Switch is almost certainly on the way and people will want to upgrade than it confirmed how cloud saves work

Logic tells us: Cloud saves work like XB/PS. Nintendo's email tells us that cloud saves are a remote system backup for a system transfer without the original machine. So $20/yr for peace of mind, instead of practical use.

Most likely cloud saves work the way we think they do, but Nintendo's bungling of communications as they try to make NO suspenseful makes it unclear. And since they're locking games to harware for now rather than accounts....it's entirely believable saves are hardware locked unless fully transferred as well. Who knows.

My guess is they contracted NO to DeNA and have no idea how it actually works, themselves.

They lock to account and hardware combined, as far as I can tell. With the 3DS at least a given account instance is hardware locked, and needs a fairly lengthy transfer process to move it to a new system. I would guess the Switch is likely the same way. Not that I can foresee needing to move my account from one switch to another very often.

@FaeKnight On Switch someone else can log into your Switch and play any of your games on their own account, but that seems to have no effect other than leaderboards twitter integration, and having your own save files on the system. You can't install any games on a system that's not your primary, and nobody else can install games on your system that is your primary. The games are hardware locked, but not account locked insofar as another account can't play on your Switch. It's basically just like WiiU.

Unlike WiiU you can change any Switch to primary at any time by deactivating your other primary and activating the new one as primary. I suppose that's a workaround to install your games, though you do need to first deactivate the other unit. It's very 1999.

Edit: Oh and the catch that for anyone to play a digital game on the console, the owner of the content has to have that console as their primary.

We still don't have "unified accounts" at least pre-NO. We still have the old NNID rebranded as a Nintendo Account.

Edit 2: This is the current pre-NO FAQ, so maybe, just maybe, it will be modernized when NO launches, but I'm not holding my breath:
Key Points:

You can activate one console at a time for your Nintendo Account. Your games are only playable on the current active console.
While a console is active for your Nintendo Account, everyone on the console can play the games you’ve purchased.
If you change the active console for your Nintendo Account, your games will not be playable on the deactivated system unless you make that the active one again for your Nintendo Account.
Save data (for digital AND physical games) cannot be transferred between systems.
Physical games are not tied to a specific console or Nintendo Account, and can be played on any system you like.

Granted I still am optimistic "cloud saves" really means "cloud saves" and not "system backup for online system restores to a new console"......but still....it's such a facepalm. I love Switch but the digital side of it isn't even worth paying attention to.

I'm still a little up in the air on Nintendo Online, but for $20 a year I may as well subscribe to it next month. I do occasionally play Mario Kart online after all. And having access to old NES games without sketchy rom sites sounds appealing.

@NEStalgia
The difference is purchases across accounts is something that could be abused fairly easily. Theortically putting your account on multiple consoles soyou only have to buy the game once. Saves across multiple systems is just you going to your mate's place and wanting to start a game with characters unlocked.

@skywake true. To us that's logical. To Nintendo, circus bears in a trampoline are logical. . If like to think the obvious doesn't illude them. The text in their email gave me pause. That said they honestly should be allowing one game on two consoles like ms and Sony and steam all allow. And Nintendo did it at times with 3ds download play as well.

@NEStalgia
I think you're reading into it a bit much. Them outlining a use case doesn't mean that's the only way it can be used.

With how affordable decent sized micro SD cards are, I am tempted to just get digital games, and end up with a stack of micro SD cards linked to my switch. Which, to be fair, I am considering doing with my 3DS too. I'd have to experiment first to see if that would work first though.

Eh, the micro SD card in my tablet doesn't actually have anything on it right now. As such it's basically just being used to speed up the system.

wanders off to experiment

EDIT: Experiment is a sucsess. Looks like the "buy digital, use multiple micro SD cards" plan can work out nicely.

@skywake your probably right, and I'm optimistic... I've been anxious for real cloud saves since launch day. I'm actually counting on it, planning to start octopath on#2 tomorrow and finish xc2 on #1 (physical both) hoping beyond hope to be able to sync the saves in 5 or 6 weeks. If i can't, my octo save will be worthless.

But it's Nintendo, and that email listing in a colored table the description of each feature showing only system restore was distressing. Though the website shows, for that feature only, "Details about this feature will be available before the paid service launches in September.". That gives hope. Otoh how does it take them a year and a half and only until the eve of launch to tell us how cloud saves, a concept over a decade old, works?

It's simple really. A News Embargo to keep details quiet until the official press release.

There are two factors no one has mentioned:

1. Digitally downloaded games on a microsd has faster read/write speeds than physical cartiges. AKA loading time will be decreased ~10 seconds.

2. In the highly unlikely event that nintendo shuts down it's online service, YOU WILL STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE GAMES YOU BOUGHT.
Look at the WiiU as an example. You will not lose yohr games if online connectivity is disabled. You can still play your games whenever you want.

@SKTTR your posts are mind-numbingly vapid. You haven't made a single contribution to this thread. Every one of your comments are either flat-out lies or spreading misinformation. Do your research before posting. Don't let your misguided bias skew your judgement.

I have been 99.9% digital on PS4 for several years now. Several years ago I was able to get a 2TB HDD for $100.

I would be 100% digital on the Switch if it weren't for one thing...
Expensive microSDXC memory. I was able to get a 128GB one on sale for $30 after I bought my Switch. But I can't even get close to what I have on PS4. Heck, even if I could score a 500GB microSDXC for a reasonable price I might go back to all digital. But it's just not there yet.

So basically, if it's available physical, that's what I get.