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Topic: Could this be the NX's controller?

Posts 21 to 40 of 41

CaviarMeths

TheLastLugia wrote:

SpookyMeths: there's gimmicky, then there's just plain bad controllers. As much as you can't have a conversation (on the Internet at least) about the Wii in particular or Wii U without that buzzword being thrown around, I would say that they were good controllers for the majority of games I've used them for, compared to Sony's controller for that gen which I just find plain annoying and uncomfortable, and even the 360's d-pad made 2D games borderline unplayable. As you say it's just people brandishing a word around because they think they're clever and they know what it means, when in reality it is the opposite.

DS1-3 were a little uncomfortable, but I got very used to using them over 15 years. I'm used to the DS4 now and it's actually a big improvement in ergonomics over the DS3. Shape is better, weight, the way the buttons press and the sticks work, it's a much more polished design. Build quality isn't great though. Recently played some PS3 and it was actually quite shocking going back to the DS3, hard to believe that was the controller I got used to for so long.

And the 360 controller is a dream to hold. Such perfect weight, shape, and layout, but yes, that D-Pad is garbage. Battery pack on the back also cramps my fingers up. I prefer the internal packs of Sony and Nintendo controllers for that reason. Don't know if the XBO controller improved on that, haven't used one.

Edited on by CaviarMeths

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

Shinion

@SpookyMeths: yeah Xbox One's default controller is great, I even managed to get up to the rat race on Battletoads using its d-pad. Haven't tried the elite one, and I don't think it's needed. I'll agree with you about DS4 too, a big improvement.

Shinion

Nicolai

Yes, please, this idea is cool! Though tell me what the price is before I completely sign off on it.

Therad wrote:

One thing I have wondered is do we really need the D-pad? Isn't it really just a waste of space? The things it is usually used for could easily be a button or two.

No, no, I hate using the joystick for precise platforming! And have you ever tried playing a retro top-down game like Legend of Zelda on the joystick? Fighting darknuts are nearly impossible.

Edited on by Nicolai

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Spin

If they could find a way to make the display show behind the buttons so the buttons can have custom icons or something that'd be amazing. My only note is that they HAVE to be buttons. Mobile games lack the feedback that's normally desired from a standard controller. I'd hate to lose that snappy feeling I get from physical buttons.

There is a problem with some of that though. Your fingers would cover some of display making it hard to see some enemies in that area. Basically it would produce blindspots in the players view.

Edited on by Spin

Spin

Nintendo Network ID: Spindash712 | Twitter:

WebHead

@Spin: Exactly. Which begs the question if this is really practical or not. Porting games from other systems would be a hassle.

WebHead

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iKhan

I think this is an AMAZING idea for a handheld, and a TERRIBLE idea for a console.

The Wii U didn't work because the concept of dual-screen gameplay didn't work. However, if Nintendo is making a new handheld, then this is an amazing way to increase screen space and increase immersion.

The only major benefit I can see for console is that it would allow developers to customize the button interface for the player, and eliminated the need for much of the on-screen HUD.

Edited on by iKhan

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Spin

@iKhan: I think the concept of the second screen on the Wii U is amazing and very under-utilized. The only problem with the Wii U is it's name. Everyone I know that doesn't have one calls it a Wii and isn't aware that it's actually different. But that's another topic.

As for this being used a controller for a console. I see that it may be a bit weird. The whole point of the Wii U is to take a quick glances at it for more info, it's touch screen, or as an extension of it's gameplay. This concept appears to be designed in a sense that it should be used exclusively.

Spin

Nintendo Network ID: Spindash712 | Twitter:

iKhan

Spin wrote:

@iKhan: I think the concept of the second screen on the Wii U is amazing and very under-utilized. The only problem with the Wii U is it's name. Everyone I know that doesn't have one calls it a Wii and isn't aware that it's actually different. But that's another topic.

As for this being used a controller for a console. I see that it may be a bit weird. The whole point of the Wii U is to take a quick glances at it for more info, it's touch screen, or as an extension of it's gameplay. This concept appears to be designed in a sense that it should be used exclusively.

I shouldn't have said only problem. The Wii U has a LOT of problems (Bad advertising, bad launch lineup for a Nintendo system, high cost, etc), but I think you are missing what I was getting at. When I say "Dual Screen Gameplay", I mean something beyond just using the Gamepad for quick glances of info, or a map, or a HUD.

Given both my own experience with the system, and the fact that even Nintendo has pretty much stopped trying, I don't think there is much there in terms of viable new ideas where you use both screens.

When you look at interviews about the Wii U, Nintendo didn't really too much in terms of gameplay ideas for the 2nd screen when the Wii U was revealed. The main justification for it was Off-TV play.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

CaviarMeths

Spin wrote:

There is a problem with some of that though. Your fingers would cover some of display making it hard to see some enemies in that area. Basically it would produce blindspots in the palyers view.

I don't think so. The main viewing area will still most likely be a regular 16:9 display, same as the Gamepad, Vita, or 3DS. That's where all the prime real estate will be. The stuff on the sides, the stuff where the buttons/sticks are is just a bonus. Developers won't put vital information in that area. It's more like peripheral vision, and extended field of view.

I think of it more like a 2560x1080 monitor with the sides of the screen partially obscured, but all of the essential visual information is in the 1920x1080 section in the middle. The outer 640x1080 is a touchscreen HUD.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

Spin

@SpookyMeths: Let's say you are playing an FPS though and some dude is shooting at you right where your fingers are. That could require some more HUD adjustment to make a player realize that there is vital areas in view where his fingers are. It's kind of like taking your tv and then covering the left and right portions of it. You miss some stuff. There are some tricks to get around it for sure, and it's possible the trade you get from immersion is a necessary sacrifice.

@iKhan: All I'm saying is that the gamepad is severely under-utilized. That doesn't make it a bad idea. It's just not a fruitful one. But you can play gmaes like NintendoLand and Game & Wario and definitely see the benefits of using the gamepad. There's even a Nintendo Game Seminar where students were tasked to come up with unique ideas for the gamepad. I'd like to see some more Ninidies get their thinking cap on and push some games out that use the gamepad well.

Spin

Nintendo Network ID: Spindash712 | Twitter:

Joeynator3000

...I think that goes to a Sony system.
...lol

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GrailUK

One of the criticisms of the gamepad was that it was too bulky and big. I think this patent would let Nintendo make a gamepad the size of a pro controller and still have the ability to have some touch screen / second screen functionality. I think it was forward thinking from a developing the Wii U brand stand point and we may not see it now the Wii U was not a commercial success. Whether this continues on the NX remains to be seen.

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Ralizah

NX confirmed to be PS Vita 2.

I'm actually OK with this.

Ralizah

skywake

If you guys want to go into a Wii U post-mortem I think you're laying too much blame on the GamePad. The GamePad was not even remotely close to being the big issue with the Wii U. Nor was advertising or even the games on it. The problem was that it sold itself as a successor to the Wii built for gamers but it lacked the one things gamers wanted in 2012-2014. It didn't have a significant jump in performance above the PS3 and 360.

It also didn't get any of its killer apps (Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart, Smash, Splatoon, Super Mario Maker, Zelda) until AFTER the PS4 had already cemented itself as the "system to get". Early on it was a case of "get the Wii U for games not out yet". Or worse yet "buy the Wii U to play games you already have at about the same spec".

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iKhan

skywake wrote:

If you guys want to go into a Wii U post-mortem I think you're laying too much blame on the GamePad. The GamePad was not even remotely close to being the big issue with the Wii U. Nor was advertising or even the games on it. The problem was that it sold itself as a successor to the Wii built for gamers but it lacked the one things gamers wanted in 2012-2014. It didn't have a significant jump in performance above the PS3 and 360.

It also didn't get any of its killer apps (Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart, Smash, Splatoon, Super Mario Maker, Zelda) until AFTER the PS4 had already cemented itself as the "system to get". Early on it was a case of "get the Wii U for games not out yet". Or worse yet "buy the Wii U to play games you already have at about the same spec".

I don't think the Wii U had one big issue. I think it had a whole host of issues big and small, which all culminated in piss poor sales.

But I do think the GamePad was one of the big issues. When you sell a console, there has to be a key improvement or feature that gamers are promised. For the Wii U, that was the GamePad, but the GamePad wasn't an attractive improvement for a brand new console with $50-100 dollar upcharge. As shallow as improved visuals are as a feature, they are much easier to market to an audience. The Gamepad didn't really offer anything super new or revolutionary aside from asymmetric multiplayer, which, really didn't seem to be the focus. Motion controls had been done with the Wii and are already pervasive in mobile apps. Off-screen HUDs and menus had been done twice already with the DS and 3DS.

This combined with power that didn't come across in visuals as much better than the PS360 made the system appear underwhelming to the market.

Edited on by iKhan

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

skywake

@iKhan: So basically you agree

Though I will add this thought to the pile. The idea of streaming games to a smaller and less capable device is far from dead. The Wii U is the poster-child for it and I think that its failure to grab the market (largely for other reasons) will hold people back. Just like the Virtual Boy held back the idea of 3D and VR. But game-streaming is an inevitability one way or another. It's here to stay whether it's with an all-in-one solution like the Wii U or via software with consoles streaming to PCs or PCs streaming to micro-consoles. And it's only going to get cheaper.

Edited on by skywake

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, TFS
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

McGruber

I agree with @skywake that game streaming is the future. This whole discussion has me wishing Nintendo would just release something similar to PS4, and let the amazing Nintendo games be the innovation, as well as the connectivity with My Nintendo, Amiibo, and the smartphone apps. I think Nintendo underestimates how many gamers would and will buy their system if they put out a distinctly Nintendo system, but also the kind of games, graphics, and infrastructure the others have. When I had a Wii U, most of my friends had NO interest in buying one, but they all loved playing it, and none of them outright disliked Nintendo. I feel there's so many people out there who WANT to buy a Nintendo system, but the systems just aren't appealing enough...

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Therad

skywake wrote:

If you guys want to go into a Wii U post-mortem I think you're laying too much blame on the GamePad. The GamePad was not even remotely close to being the big issue with the Wii U. Nor was advertising or even the games on it. The problem was that it sold itself as a successor to the Wii built for gamers but it lacked the one things gamers wanted in 2012-2014. It didn't have a significant jump in performance above the PS3 and 360.

It also didn't get any of its killer apps (Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart, Smash, Splatoon, Super Mario Maker, Zelda) until AFTER the PS4 had already cemented itself as the "system to get". Early on it was a case of "get the Wii U for games not out yet". Or worse yet "buy the Wii U to play games you already have at about the same spec".

Of course it wasn't only the gamepad, but it has gotten much of the blame. It was really a perfect storm as @iKhan mentioned. And they will probably want to distance themselves from wii u, what better way then removing the very defining feature of Wii U?

Therad

Therad

skywake wrote:

Therad wrote:

VC I sort of understand, but does the indie-scene really use it that much? Things like platformers works just as fine with an analog stick IMHO.

Some releases from the last few years from the top of my head that are better played with the D-Pad:
Shovel Knight, Super Meat Boy, Braid, Limbo, SteamWorld Dig, Axiom Verge, Mighty Switch Force, Gunman Clive, Rayman Legends, Donkey Kong Country Returns, New Super Mario Bros, Yoshi's Woolly World...

I think you get the idea...

Well... I don't have any problem using an analog stick for those games. At least not the once I have played.

I have more trouble using it in apps like netflix...

Edited on by Therad

Therad

skywake

Therad wrote:

Well... I don't have any problem using an analog stick for those games. At least not the once I have played.

I have more trouble using it in apps like netflix...

Fair call on it being a matter of prefference. My niece never uses the D-Pad and I almost cringe when she insists on using the analogue stick for games like Super Meat Boy. Though she isn't that bad at it so it's hard to complain too much.

Still, sven if it is just a preference thing I think it's better having it for those that prefer it rather than not having it for purely aesthetic reasons. It's not like it's an expensive or bulky component. Especially for something that would already have at least A/B/X/Y + R/L + An analogue stick or two.

Edited on by skywake

Some good Aussie musics: King Gizzard, Pond, TFS
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

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