Topic: Attach Rates are Stupid and Games Don't Need to Sell Millions

I would argue Kirby and the like appear on systems as a justification for the purchaser - I want a PS4 it has this awesome shooting zombie game AND I can play little big planet with little Dave............

As for the (ace) posts above, look at the love Nintendo are giving Nindies and Skyrim - says to me someone has noticed we need to change.

It goes something like this.....

Think of the install base as simply a function of how much space is under that line. The time since launch is the X-axis and the type of consumer is labelled. For a console with a low install base like the Wii U? Typically most of its sales came from early adopters because it never hit a majority peak. The same is true for a new platform like the Switch which has yet to hit its peak.

Why does this matter? Well it explains why the Wii U had such a high attach rate for games. It also explains some of why the Switch currently has such a high attach rate for games. Most of the users are early adopters. When the Switch hits that early majority peak? The attach rate will shrink as the proportion of early adopters shrinks. But those early adopters don't disappear so with the bigger install base sales of games will be higher.

Unless the Switch does a Wii U and only manages to appeal to early adopters.....

There are some great posts on here. Can I just add that for some time now.... N64 that is...Nintendo have made it harder and harder for 3rd parties to release games on their systems. The N64 stuck with cartridges which were more costly than the alternative at the time. The Wii was severely underpowered compared to the competition,which the Wii U and Switch have followed suit. It goes back to what someone said earlier games are stupidly expensive endeavours now. If I as a company were to make a game if said game can be played on PC, PS4 and XBONE with only a few adjustments for each port it's very hard for me to justify throwing extra money at a somewhat more complicated port for Nintendo hardware.

Once over I thought it was a smart idea to underpower the console as so many publishers and games industry analysts were decrying that games were becoming too expensive to make for not enough gain. In that climate I thought (stupidly) that reducing the hardware therefore limiting the cost of making games was a good solution. But ppl still go on about graphics even though imo the jump from PS3 to 4 didn't seem that impressive to me an now look at the excitement over XBONE S etc. I still kinda think that devs are missing a trick when it comes to not getting too caught up in pushing graphics and lighting and blah blah blah as they could save money but still make very good games. But that's just me and I don't think anyone shares the same opinion except maybe Nintendo lol.

Another point I want to raise is because the 3rd party games are mostly ports to me seems like such a stupid idea. I think a lot of Nintendo owners realise if they want to play some of the big AAA titles they need to own 2 consoles which I have done for a long time now. So why would I buy a brand new gimped version of something I bought ages ago.... if I do end up trying something like let's say Batman Armored edition for instance I wait to buy a preowned cheap copy because I may have interest in trying it but I'm not gonna invest a lot of money into it.

Which brings me to my final point. Preowned games, that market is so big now that it seems like a lot of people don't buy day one and wait till cheaper copies show up in the preowned section I've always wanted to know just how much money is made from preowned compared to brand new games. Something which I think is pretty much impossible as there are so many ways of buying games 2nd hand.

Anyway just wanted to throw in a couple of my ideas into the mix as so many seem to have already brought up excellent points.

In two years, the smart devs should be making Switch temporary exclusives that get slightly upgraded ports a year later. Srsly, just make games that will cost less money and then port them later.

Of course literally like 98% of devs have no reason to make a game that's too powerful to run on Switch in the first place when Minecraft and GTA 5 still rule the world.

@Filth_Element
So why would I buy a brand new gimped version of something I bought ages ago

That may have been true during the Wii/Wii U era, but I don't think it holds any weight now. Unlike past consoles, Switch actually makes the other versions seem like the ones that are gimped. Even if I already own a game, I still want to buy it for Switch because in most cases, it's the first ever handheld version of that game released on the market. Disgaea 5, for example. Bought it on PS4, played it a little bit, but then it released on Switch with full parity to the PS4 version, alongside being a handheld version- and a full console quality handheld version of that. But it's not just the fact that these games are offering themselves as a handheld version, it's the fact that you can switch between the two at will. You could buy a handheld version separately, but have no save transfers between your console version and your handheld version, and even if you did you'd have to go through the painful process of uploading to the servers and then downloading and all that crap- whereas with Switch, it's seamless.

So I think a lot of that conventional reasoning has gone right out the window this generation. Even if a game is releasing later on Switch, there hasn't been a single instance of a game where I wasn't willing to wait to get the better version- and I say better version because the value offered by a full console and handheld version with seamless transition far outweighs the negligible benefits of say, a slightly better frame rate, or cut scenes in a sports story mode, or whatever the case may be.

And it is for this reason that I believe we are going to see a lot more third-party support than we have in the last 10 years. We see the benefits- everyone is talking about how they'd like this game on Switch and that game on Switch- everyone wants the games they enjoy to be on Switch because it's just the best console to have a game on now. And I think that appeal is pretty obvious- so these developers likely see that the same as we do. And will likely capitalize on the demand for games on a hybrid console.

@JaxonH Who is this ‘we’ and ‘everyone’, and why is the Switch suddenly the best console to have a game on nowadays?

Granted, it is the most technically impressive portable system on the market however, it’s nowhere near to being the best home console. If you are purely talking as a handheld device, then that should be clarified.

Needs more ‘IMO’ in your posts.

@Snaplocket I know Sony make and publish their own (often very good and very successful) first party games. I just think there's a difference in emphasis.

Sony makes most of their money from PlayStation via 3rd parties paying them a fee to release on their platform. So they can prioritise that. In Sony-land 1st party exclusives are designed to sell consoles and encourage brand switching from XBox so that 3rd party games sell more.

If Uncharted only sells 2million copies and just about breaks even but attracts a lot of plaudits and adds to the positive perception of PlayStation then, from Sony's perspective, its successful.

Nintendo have to sell their own first part games in big numbers. The format is just a means to that end. It's a subtle but very important difference.

Well if the game can run on the Switch that extra convenience makes the Switch the best place to have that game. And if you want to argue that convenience means nothing then you're basically arguing that a decent gaming PC is the best platform. Clearly that's not the case given the number of times you see people blasted when they try to argue the merits of PC gaming on forums like this.

Speaking for myself? There are some games I'd rather play on PC but mostly for the flexibility of control options. If a game can run on the Switch and is suited for a traditional controller? The Switch is the platform I'd want to own that game on. Hands down. If convenience matters more than visuals for a game why wouldn't I want it on the most convenient gaming platform?

It's very subjective, but I'll take the exact opposite opinion. Portability doesn't usually bother me, so I'll prefer the version that is the best graphically or has the most content.

@JaxonH I'm sorry but what?!?!? I love my Switch and want the platform to do great, but what you saying doesn't make sense at all.... If what you are saying is true then why are they finding it so hard to port Steep, why have some devs come out and flatly said no f ing way is our game coming to the Switch..... because it is not powerful enough to get their games on.
I love the enthusiasm but it's just crazy talk lol.

@Filth_Element
Um, it makes perfect sense. Steep and certain games not making it is completely irrelevant to what I said.

I never claimed the system was on par power wise, I never said every game would come. No idea what you're talking about

@crimsontadpoles
There are some people like that, but I think the majority of Switch owners who claimed such are now backpedaling that viewpoint. Even the most staunch anti-portable gamers are finding the portability a huge asset. Of course, it took actually owning the system for them to see that.

When you can just grab the system and walk downstairs with it, or take it to work, or the bathroom, or wherever, there's no reason not to. Wii U tried doing the "in the house" thing but lack of consistent methods meant never knowing what button to press for off tv play, and poor range and sub HD put people off. When it's grab and go, full HD without compromise, it's too easy not to.

@JaxonH True, but saying the majority of all Switch owners likes this Switch feature is the mother of all sampling biases. If I cared more about portability, then I might have grabbed a Switch by now.

@crimsontadpoles
Well, the polls showed only 1/3 Switch owners cared nothing for portability when they got it, and all I read is people saying "Ya I was one of those people who didn't care about portability, but now I see the light". Even the people at my work who've never owned handhelds, use it almost exclusively in handheld mode.

So, just speaking from my observations here. Maybe you'll never care about it, but I've got a feeling you very well might. Most people who don't care about portability, what they actually mean, is I've never cared about it thus far. But we've never had a hybrid system thus far. We've never been able to play full console games with real, separate controllers from anywhere. No one has ever had the opportunity to, when they're super into a really great game, keep on playing it anywhere. Home, work, friends house, downstairs, you name it. And play it like you actually are at home. There's no reason not to care about portability. If you like playing games, why limit yourself to a small window of time when you don't have to. If you can prop it up in tabletop mode and enjoy that very same game, with real controllers, leaned back in a chair... from anywhere. Who would rationally be actively against that.

@JaxonH I still play my 3DS, so I know about portability. Portability occasionally comes in useful for me, but it's not a big deal to me.

Having a hybrid console does have it's disadvantages, such as the cost of the console, cost of the games, and graphical performance. My view is that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages in this case.

Um I was just reacting to what you said. Reread it and yeah I stand by my reaction, try reading it yourself. "Switch actually makes the other versions seem like the ones that are gimped."

@crimsontadpoles
Costs same as Nintendo's last console, and the graphics look pretty good. Arms could pass for a PS4 game. So could Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. They were never gonna make a more powerful console than this. Maybe it woulda been $50 cheaper is all.

I mean, if $200 for a 3DS is ok, an extra hundred to have current gen consoles games is a no brainer imo. Even without the portability.

edit
I should point out, I had a 3DS too, obviously, but only took it with me on occasion. Usually when I was into a game like MH. But that all changed with Switch. Having full console games, real controller, and the ability to play with others and/or play online via hotspot makes all the difference.

I'm with Jaxxon here.The Switch is the first console I've bought since the Gamecube that actually feels "next gen" to me.It and like a big upgrade.I never really had that feeling with my Wii or Wii U..The Wii U was my first HD console but after playing loads of HD games on my mates Xbox 360 for the previous 8 years,there was nothing impressive about it.The slow and clunky UI and Eshop meant it could never feel modern.The Switch though feels different.everything about it feels modern, it's a pleasure to use.Even though graphically it's no more than a souped up Wii U,it's versatility will impress anyone that gets that gets to spend some time with it.I've never really been much of a handheld gamer and if you asked me last month if I'd be playing it mostly docked or undocked,I'd have said 90% docked.Yet if I was to break it down now,I'd say 40% docked,40% handheld and 20% tabletop mode.I don't need to play it undocked or in tabletop mode but I do because I can and it's awesome.Zelda and Splatoon 2 on the TV with my Pro controller,ARMS on the TV with the Thumbs-up grip,MK8D sometimes on the TV with split Joy-con and other times on the handheld just because it looks and feels so good to play on the small screen,indie and arcade games on handheld,Puyo Puyo in handheld or tabletop mode with Joy-con in the grip,Namco Museum and the Psikyo games in TATE mode with split Joy-con.Having all these options to play my system combined with the silky smooth UI,faster loading times (most games,not all )and a stand by function allowing me to be back in my game in seconds makes this the nicest console I've ever had my hands on.Game-wise it's too early for me to say it's the best console I've ever owned but with the games I do already own and the ones I know are on the way,I'm fairly confident it could be.

I think you're missing the point here. When the Switch gets an equivalent version of a game? It's inevitably going to be the best platform to play the game on. Because of the extra convenience of the platform being portable. Frankly if given the option I'd buy the Switch version of a game over the PC version.

If the argument is that the Switch isn't as good because it lacks horsepower? Well that's a factor. But in general games that require more horsepower aren't going to be on Switch anyways. So it's a bit of a non-point really. But of course if a Switch v2 could run those games and got them I'd go for the Switch versions of those games also.

@skywake look I'm all for the Switch please don't misunderstand what I'm getting at. What I'm saying is that it will probs still really struggle to get that 3rd party support we all crave. If the Switch were to get something like Wolfenstien 2 or the next Battlefield you know big titles it will NOT be the best version available. Yes it may be portable and really good to be able to pick up your console and carry on playing but gameplay wise, graphically and content wise it will be a lesser version. I'm just as much a fan as you and love having console gaming on the go but I'm also realistic in looking at all the options on their merits and can see that some of what has been said is just fanboy chest beating.

I'm not trying offend anyone, not even @JaxonH, but what he was saying was utter rubbish. I hope we do see more 3rd party support than the last5 gens of Nintendo consoles have received but to say
"conventional reasoning has gone right out the window this generation."
Or
"it is for this reason that I believe we are going to see a lot more third-party support than we have in the last 10 years."
Because that argument doesn't hold any weight.
At least you @skywake have the sense to say
"Well if the game can run on the Switch that extra convenience makes the Switch the best place to have that game."
But what I'm saying is that is a big if.... and current games like Steep are proving that it is a big if. They are having trouble because they are having to downgrade to fit in with the Switch's hardware not because they are rubbish at their jobs.

Come on people I feel like I am on crazy pills here lol. I'm not trying to belittle the Switch or you just saying that's crazy talk.

Btw @skywake good choice in music! 😉