Topic: Achievements?

From my sig:

Can't form a rebuttal so resorts to (rather poor) personal attacks. I love it.

Might want to look up the definition of optional.

I do understand why people enjoy them (re: conditioning), which is why I don't think they should be on any system. But then you'd know this if you took more than a cursory glance at anything I've typed.

@EvilLucario On a positive note, I’m really digging Xenoblade Chronicles 2, so I’m glad I listened to your opinion on the subject. xD

Dangit, man - I've actually always respected your opinion, but right here you really blew it this time around. This just isn't true for everyone (and you probably know that), and you're really putting yourself on a pedestal also: not exactly helping your case to cast yourself as the only one not getting personal in this back-and-forth. There are plenty of people out there, like me, that do enjoy certain aspects of achievements but by no means are "conditioned." I couldn't tell you what my gamerscore or trophies or whatever are, and I sure as heck couldn't tell you what my whatever is on Steam. But hey, having the systems around is sometimes cool.

To quote Hale from The Crucible: "It's a lie. They are innocent."

It's really that simple, man. Achievements as we know them in all their current iterations are optional. They are optional. Done. There is no gray area except for what is created in someone's own mind.

Mental health issues and certain types of personalities DO interact with achievements in unfortunate ways, though, but to not implement something because of a minority is a complex decision that most companies in the world must make with their products.

Anyway, I think you're stretching yourself here. Take a rest, man, and come back later.

(Serious side note, though - are you well-versed in studying and claiming mental health issues? Because if you want to seriously talk "conditioning," there's A LOT more to the topic than what you're stating.)

I also see the argument about lazy developers and game design being effected by an achievement system. As 90% of the third party games on Switch have an achievement system on other systems, I cant see how this would change. Pretty much only Nintendo itself avoids them. Minecraft has Xbox cheevos in there. I just cant get my head around that reasoning. Anyway, I'm betting on Nintendo implementing this in some way once online comes around. Its an easy thing to implement, but would certainly be notable in its absence once online infrastructure becomes more comparable through paid subscription (although thankfully cheaper).

You're saying you don't have insecurities? Considering the response when I asked you to back up your argument, I would say that isn't the case. But then, find a person without insecurities, and you've found a corpse.

If true, I'm surprised the respect lasted this long (I have enjoyed our occasional clashes, very stimulating, but I'm well aware I can often be belligerent). If not please use sarcasm tags.

Exactly, the statement is BS, and I admit it. I can't back that up. Calling BS on that wasn't shooting fish in a barrel, it was shoot the fish from inside its stomach, a blind man couldn't miss. I do believe some form of conditioning (whether intentional or not) has played a part in Lethal's case, but even that I can't back up. Playing games you know you won't enjoy for an "achievement," seems really unhealthy to me.

Emphatically no. I haven't once said that I haven't thrown out any insults in all this (that would be a losing fight), however I have tried (haven't always succeeded) to keep my snide comments in keeping with the topic at hand, rather than a commentary of the person as a whole.

Optional: left to one's choice; not required or mandatory. None of the major implementations have "achievements" as a choice (it's possible GOG does, but I wouldn't say they're a major player yet). You play the game, you are most likely going to trigger an achievement, whether you want to or not. That is how it isn't optional.

Agreed. However I've been saying a while now, give people the choice. You can keep both sides happy. But if it boils down to yes OR no, then I pick no. Speaking as someone how did harvest achievements for a good while.

Not my finest response, I agree. Didn't have time to put much effort in to it this morning.

I did study psych for a bit, though certainly not qualified to practice it. But yeah simply shouting "Conditioning!" isn't meaningful without looking at how the behaviour is reinforced and the disposition of people involved.

Count me among those who could care less about an implemented trophy system in the Switch. The 3DS had one and I did not particularly care for it.

I happen to play a game more if there are trophies to earn than when there aren't trophies to earn. Although some are too long or too hard that I'll never do them.

@shaneoh
Hey, sorry - system never told me you replied to me for some reason.

You have a lot of text going on there, man. Not gonna read it. But I'm sure whatever you said is great and all that.

(Eh, honestly, just not in the mood to get riled up by some random person over the internet. Like I said, I usually like what you have to say, and I'm sure you're a swell guy in person, but yea... having a good day right now and don't want to ruin it lol)

@rallydefault In Nintendo Life, quotes never tag people for some reason. You have to directly @ them. Kinda annoying since I was sure we used to get tagged for getting quoted in the past, but whatever.

@rallydefault
Lol, understandable, no point getting riled for no reason. Enjoy your day.

I'm sorry I have to say this but I am very glad there are no achievements/trophies on Nintendo Switch.
For people with OCD - like myself - they can be the bane of our existence.
I think Nintendo realizes that and it might be one of the reasons why they don't want to implement them.

You have to remember that Nintendo is a family company, a status they regard very highly and don't want to lose. Achievements/trophies go against that philosophy because it encourages addictive behavior.
For a time I too was addicted to achievements in games on Steam. Mostly because I felt the compulsion to collect them all for every game I owned. Now I know I'm an extreme case in this regard, but surely I can't be the only one.

And before anyone says to me I should ignore achievements... that's not how it works, unfortunately.
If they're there, they're there and the compulsion sets in. It's really annoying, I know, but that's just how it is for people like me.

As a side note: once I realized what achievements were doing to my well-being a couple of years ago, I decided to stop playing games on Steam and returned to Nintendo consoles and handhelds.
And I'm very glad I did.

@LossyQuote So a feature should be denied to everyone because some people have issue with it? I understand that people can have significant problems with things like OCD. But why should the whole community be denied a feature because a minority of players take issue with it? And if so where do we draw the line? There are plenty of games and features that people could take issue with it. If we abandon all of them, we kill gaming. Now that is a slippery slope fallacy but my point stands. Basically anything in gaming has a minority or people who have problems with it. Where do we draw the line with what gets cut and what doesn't? Another example was Swapnote - the 3DS app that used to let people send messages to each other over 3DS's online. But that function had to be removed because an extreme minority abused it(sending dirty pictures). Everyone got penalized because a small group had an issue. It might even be because of that "scandal" that we don't have voice chat or messaging on Switch.

I am not trying to dissmiss you, but to play devil's advocate and ask, where do we draw the line?

@Heavyarms55

Look, I'm not one of those that goes like "if I don't like it, no one should have it". I only stated my opinion on why I'm glad there are no achievements on Nintendo consoles and why I believe there shouldn't be.
If Nintendo changes their mind, I will be happy for those that enjoy them but I will also get worried about the well-being of myself and others with similar issues.

As to where do we draw the line? That's tricky.
Let me give you the example of lootboxes. More and more countries, and even the European Parlement, are running studies to figure out what those monstrosities are doing to the minds and behavior of children and how they can forbid those practices from happening any further.
Now lootboxes are of course much more harmful than achievements (there's real money and actual gambling involved with those), but both are a relatively new phenomenon in gaming and I have to ask if games have gotten better with them? That's where I am willing to draw a parallel between achievements and lootboxes. Games are addictive enough as they are, we don't need these extra mechanisms to draw the gamer back in time and time again.

@LossyQuote I actually completely agree with the harmful nature of loot boxes and gambling. As to your comment about what achievements bring to the game however, I always thought of them as the milestones the developers mark. These are the things the guys who made the game think are noteworthy. Sure - some could be silly, I have played games on Xbox 360 that gave me an achievement just for turning the game on - and some could be absolutely outrageous or even borderline impossible. But in general, I have felt they have added something positive to gaming. Like the developer patting you on the shoulder and saying "nicely done!".

All that said, I do understand how someone with OCD could find them distracting and negative and can see why you would not want them.

Thank you for your understanding.
I'm happy to meet someone who's willing to defend his opinions without reverting to shouting and name calling.

I don't buy that excuse. They are part of the game and just like all games, there are optional objectives inside the game. Trophies are just categorized differently and someone with OCD can simply not bother to view the trophies since they are shown outside of the game.

I have OCD and I view the trophy lists for each game I play. I then decide if I feel I am able to achieve all the trophies in the game. If I feel I can, then yes I push myself to keep playing so I can earn them all. If I feel the trophies might be too hard or take to long, then I just play the game for the story and not worry about the extra challenges the trophies are offering.

That's...not how OCD works. If you don't feel an obsessive compulsion to complete said task(s) - you do not have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (..or, at least, not in this area of your life)

@NaviAndMii
Yes, thank you!

I'm sorry but I am diagnosed with OCD. Maybe you didn't read my posts on the previous page, but I thought I made myself clear.

Maybe a feature like this might work for people like me. Not sure, but it's an interesting thought.