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Topic: Achievements?

Posts 341 to 360 of 425

EvilLucario

I mean, I personally don't give a rat's ass about them one way or another. I'll do them if I like a game a lot. Like I'm going for the Bayonetta not-achievements right now, but if I didn't love Bayonetta like I do I wouldn't care.

They're still skinner boxes of fake content, though, unless you're actively getting something for them, and perhaps that's why other people don't like them. But whatever, that's not my prerogative to assume. I think if there were to be achievements, they need to mean something more, like Odyssey's Toadette Moons.

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MarcelRguez

@EvilLucario Skinner box is the exact term I used to describe them earlier in this thread, so at least in my case you'd be correct in your assumption.

I think yours is a healthy mindset to have about them. I was the same, but I ended up dropping them altogether regardless.

MarcelRguez

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EvilLucario

@MarcelRguez Ah damn, I don't intend to copy word-for-word but then again, "skinner box" is a pretty apt label imo.

Anyway, I think people wouldn't have a "problem" with Achievements/Trophies if they were all system-integrated and was more substantial like Odyssey or Sakurai-developed games. It'll mask the skinner box aspect pretty well, and you'll still get something in the game from them, be it Moons or whatever.

That leaves out third-parties, though, where they don't adhere to those rules on Sony/Microsoft and they probably wouldn't bother for Nintendo. Meh.

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shaneoh

Ryzaerian wrote:

For the majority of players, they improve the gaming experience.

Do you have any research to back that statement up?

Ryzaerian wrote:

I, and the majority of players like me who want achievements, don’t have a choice. We deserve one.

The universe owes you nothing.

EvilLucario wrote:

Anyway, I think people wouldn't have a "problem" with Achievements/Trophies if they were all system-integrated and was more substantial like Odyssey or Sakurai-developed games.

I wouldn't have a problem with them if I could opt out, which no implementation of achievements has done so far. Am I repeating myself here?

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Octane

@shaneoh Just ignore them

Like the countless Moons in Odyssey, or the Korok Seeds in Zelda. If I can ignore achievements, so can you. I wouldn't even know how many trophies I have on my PS4, that's how little I care and how little they affect my gaming experience. Nobody is forcing you to collect them.

Octane

MarcelRguez

@EvilLucario Exactly, I don't have much of a problem when it's done in such a way because in those cases the feature isn't part of a larger (platform-integrated) system and chances are it was the developers' intention to add them. They are part of the game ar that point, unlike Achievements and Trophies.

MarcelRguez

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Ryzaerian

shaneoh wrote:

Do you have any research to back that statement up?

Yes, I have 15 years of double-blind, empirical studies I’ve collected and compiled alphabetically for your ornery ass. Your opinion is that important to me.

The universe doesn’t owe you anything either, jackass.

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Dogorilla

Personally I'm fine with in-game achievement/badge systems like in Wii Sports Resort, Animal Crossing New Leaf, Shovel Knight, ARMS and many others. However if they do add system-level achievements to the Switch I think it would be cool if some of them unlocked exclusive profile icons. That would help make them more rewarding than just an arbitrary points system like on Xbox. (I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this but I haven't seen anyone else mention it.)

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EvilLucario

@shaneoh Here's my thing. I'm not talking about the type of achievements Sony/Microsoft/Valve implements in their systems. Rather, a different type of achievement that Nintendo tends to implement which beats the crap out of all the other types of achievements.

When you do achievements everywhere else, all they do is just show a completion rating and maybe give you credit (apparently for the PS4 if you platinum stuff). Big whoop. I still don't care, that's just fake content that doesn't give any new actual, meaningful game content. (Which excludes the golden turd from BotW's Korok seeds)

BUT. In something like Kid Icarus: Uprising which DID implement achievements of its own, they actively reward you with tangible gameplay items. Do an achievement, you could unlock a power that you could use in stages that can really help you out during gameplay. Maybe a weapon, too.

Smash Bros Brawl and 4. Do achievements, you could unlock stages in addition to the trophies and music.

Basically, give meaning to achievements that makes sense.

Even Xenoblade 1 and X's achievements, one of the more egregious examples of skinner box content Nintendo produced, still gave you XP so your efforts weren't wasted. And Xenoblade 2 fixed achievements from previous games to instead go on Blade affinity charts, which actively power up your Blades with stronger skills and attacks per "achievement", giving you an actual gameplay incentive to do them.

By that point, it becomes less of an arbitrary thing to artificially pad out game time and more of an actual gameplay goal that unlocks stuff to use. If you consider games done after the credits, that's that and the unfinished stuff won't bother you at all.

That's basically my point here. Why should achievements just copy-pasted like what other platforms do? Can't we actually implement these into gameplay in natural ways that make sense?

That also indirectly fixes the "problem" of "no way to opt out of participation", though personally I find the need to opt out of participation to be redundant considering you can already turn off notifications, and that's really all you need. On my Steam page I have like rows and rows of uncompleted achievements and you can't pay me to do them willingly unless I really feel like it, which is rare.

Barely anyone brings that up. Barely anyone talks about actively changing achievements to be something else entirely. It's always "bring it as is" or "don't bring them at all". It's not always clear-cut.

Edited on by EvilLucario

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MarcelRguez

EvilLucario wrote:

Why should achievements just copy-pasted like what other platforms do? Can't we actually implement these into gameplay in natural ways that make sense?

I know this is a rethorical question and all but I think it needs to be stated anyway: it takes a lot of effort to implement features like that organically into every game. It's obviously much cheaper and faster to implement on a system level, as a one-size-fits-all solution. Nintendo and other devs are willing to go the extra mile to implement it when they feel it adds something to the game and avoid it when it doesn't, and I think that's commendable, but it can't be argued that, if they just wanted to add an achievement system to their games that's removed from any other system, aping what other platforms do would be the smart thing to do.

Which is enough proof, I believe, that the vast majority of people value achievements enough as as what they already are, and they don't care as much as in-game rewards, sadly.

MarcelRguez

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EvilLucario

@MarcelRguez I understand, but it doesn't make that fact suck any less regardless.

That said, if Nintendo can specifically pull it off with all their games, I'll be happy with that regardless. And all the third-parties can find alternatives, like how Bayonetta adapted their achievements into the game, though idk how many would be willing to do that.

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shaneoh

@EvilLucario
I'm still not a fan of the way Nintendo does it either.

Ryzaerian wrote:

]Yes, I have 15 years of double-blind, empirical studies I’ve collected and compiled alphabetically for your ornery ass. Your opinion is that important to me.

Cool, now I just need to teach my donkey to read and then he'll be able to tell me the results. Might take a while, as you said, he is quite ornery. Good to know that your statement about achievements improving the experience for the majority of gamers is well researched. I'd hate to think that you were making it up, it would damage my opinion of you, which is already at a record high.

Ryzaerian wrote:

The universe doesn’t owe you anything either, jackass.

I'm not the one going on about "deserving" something. Might suggest that I already know that. Donkeydonkey.

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ValhallaOutcast

Achievements are lame 90% of the time, achievment for completing the tutorial, one for completing various part of the story that are manditory parts of the game, one for beating the game on every difficulty level, etc etc

most games would have 10 achievements if they only had cool or ones that took effort to achieve

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mowerdude

I think it would be great if Nintendo did release a system wide achievements/trophies kind of system it add's some replay-able to alot of games. Even though I don't really care if they come or not they are just a optional item that you can turn off notifications for and forget about them. It's really that simple.

Edited on by mowerdude

mowerdude

EvilLucario

@shaneoh Then nothing will change your mind, especially since they're built into the game and not to a profile. So it's meaningless to really debate any more, especially considering Nintendo Life always gets heated over achievements, more than any other community on the planet.

Regardless I'll end by saying I still maintain that if you don't care about achievements, don't pay any attention to them. You dictate when a game is done, not the game itself. They are completely optional and only provide extra gameplay time to those that really care.

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Lethal

Achievements/Trophies are great for gamers and especially the developers. Many people have an addiction to collecting these trophies. This means games are purchased that would never be purchased by these gamers because they want the trophies.

Nobody should have anything negative to say about them because they are optional. Don't like trophies? Then don't worry about them. These absolutely prolong the life of a game for people. They give you a reason to keep playing.

Nintendo really should launch a similar system.

I even got the platinum trophy in Hannah Montana on the PS3 because I wanted the platinum trophy. That is proof enough that trophies create more sales. I also found some real gems out there that I never would have found. And it was all due to the trophies I wanted to get.

Edited on by Lethal

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Ryzaerian

shaneoh wrote:

Lethal wrote:

I even got the platinum trophy in Hannah Montana on the PS3 because I wanted the platinum trophy.

Really, does any more need to be said?

A guy played a game he probably would not have otherwise had any interest in, simply because he wanted to get the platinum trophy. I’ve had similar experiences.

So, not only are trophies fun as hell to chase, but they have the added advantage of encouraging people to play games they might not have otherwise even tried. And oftentimes, those people end up genuinely enjoying the game.

No, nothing else needs to be said. Take your foot out of your mouth and stop imposing your terrible opinion on other people.

Edited on by Ryzaerian

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shaneoh

@Ryzaerian
That's a convoluted way of saying a man bought and played a terrible game because he was conditioned to get that pop up rather than because he felt he would enjoy the game.

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