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Topic: 2 Major Things That Go Against Having A Smash Bros. "Deluxe Port"

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backup368

skywake wrote:

Smash Bros is a fighting game, it's not a game that I get excited about a new release for because of all the new things. It's a game that I get excited about a new release because it means I can play it on the new hardware. It's not that I'm opposed to the idea of Smash Bros 5 so much as I don't see why you are so opposed to a deluxe release of Smash 4.

Thanks for joining us. To answer your question, there have been over 30 new first party games that have released since the previous Smash Bros. game, and a port would make it seem like most of those games do not matter to Nintendo.

Secondly, to release a port of a game to help promote a paid online service when the original game has free online would be unethical and useless. If you already have the Wii-U or 3DS version, what would make you pay $20 a year?

Glad I answered your question.

backup368

Switch Friend Code: SW-3852-6842-9110

Hikingguy

@backup368 Not true.
Timing is everything. Why would Nintendo want to release all their big franchises at the same time? Spread it out. Maximize their IP's. The first year it was Zelda and Mario (and Splatoon), and why not. Zelda is still selling very well. Mario Kart is selling very well. Odyssey is doing more than good enough. What would Nintendo have gained by releasing Smash even if they could?

As Zelda BotW has shown us, Nintendo is more than willing to wait for the right time to release a game.

If a port of MK8 has already sold as well as it has on the Switch, Nintendo knows very well that a port of Smash would do similar. All they need to do is polish a few things up and add some nice updates, unite both the Wii U and 3DS content and it will also sell similarly.
Companies will typically do the least amount of work they think is necessary to sell the maximum amount of a product. There is a lot more to squeeze out of SSB WiiU/3DS.

Hikingguy

19Robb92

I think we'll get a "Deluxe Port", but I think Nintendo will simply name it "Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch" and advertise it as a new game. My main argument is a pure (very simple) cost-benefit analysis, and there are a lot more benefits in porting the WiiU/3DS game than not doing so.

First, the port of Mario Kart 8 has sold incredibly well and was most likely cheap to produce, so Nintendo will obviously look at SSB4 thinking they can achieve the same success with a port of that. Second, the 3rd party characters included in SSB4 are likely licensed to that specific game and simply porting it would ease the licensing burden and guarantee the same rich roster while allowing them to add more of their own franchises. Third, they already have a online infrastructure in SSB4 and if they port it to the Switch they can put more resources on simply improving that existing layout a lot, rather than having to focus on creating a whole new layout from scratch. Fourth, Nintendo is going to want to have a big online game available when launching their new online-service and a port will be a lot easier to keep on a strict deadline in order to guarantee a release at the same time, compared to a whole new instalment that could potentially be delayed for who knows how long. etc. etc.

Edited on by 19Robb92

Looking forward to: No More Heroes: Travis Strikes Again

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backup368

@Hikingguy I never said that a Smash Bros. game was going to release this year, and that is what they should not do. The reason why they decided to release Breath of the Wild for Switch is because the Wii-U flopped, just like Gamecube flopped and they decided to release Twilight Princess for Wii as a launch game. Then Nintendo decided, "Hey, we need this console to sell well. Let's re-release Mario Kart 8 to fill in the gap between Zelda and Arms." Now that they have sold over 15 million consoles, why would it be necessary to have this "deluxe port" of Super Smash Bros for Wii-U? They always had time to do it, but why would it be necessary to push a paid online service when you can already play that repetitive 1 on 1 For Glory for free? How revolutionary, right? This is what people are willing to pay $20 a year on?

backup368

Switch Friend Code: SW-3852-6842-9110

Hikingguy

@backup368 That is right, you said that Nintendo would have already released it. I say they release it when they think the timing is right.

I think you are way overemphasizing the need for some major game to justify online. It is 2018 and at this point people who play video games expect to pay for a console's online service. It does not matter if Smash comes out or not. Heck just give me the same abilities I had on the Wii U and I would start to be happy.

Nintendo does not need to be revolutionary, they just needed to do "something" better than the competition and give the people what they want. In this case, that something is a console quality device that has the ability to be mobile.

Nintendo's online service will not be revolutionary. Nintendo is only now doing a paid online service because they can and people will pay for it. There is a reason they waited well over a year to start the online service. If they would have lead with a paid online service, I am sure sales of the Switch would not have been as robust. But now they have a hit on their hands, they can easily charge less than the competition and people will think they are getting a deal.

People are like lemmings. Everyone says they want to be unique or they are their own person, but in reality most people will follow what is popular. If the world would have loved the Wii U, then everyone would have bought it. People obviously enjoyed Smash, but the vast majority of people were not going to buy an unpopular console just to play it. People are heaping praises all over the Switch, so now everyone thinks it is cool to own one. So now everyone who was on the sidelines before will be more than happy to pay the price to play a Smash game.

To quickly summarize what you just said, "the Wii U did not sell well". Stop gap or not, if your logic was 100% accurate then everyone who wanted to play MK8 would have already done so on the Wii U. If Nintendo had the choice as to what game they wanted to port first, Mario Kart is the right game. MK games have an appeal to a wider audience. So if they had two big Wii U franchizes that they wanted to port and had to decide between Smash or Mario Kart, I believe they would always go with Mario Kart.
15 Million Switch consoles is a good number, but if they want that number to continue its rise, they need to keep selling good games. Just like MK8 and Zelda, Nintendo has invested way too much money, time, resources on Smash 4 to ditch it already. The game looks and plays more than acceptable by today's standards and for them to start over with a brand new game would be foolish. No one in their right mind is going to buy a Wii U just to play Smash 4 just because it is there and online is free. But if they release an enhanced port unifying both the 3DS and Wii U content, people will think they are getting a deal and it will sell like mad. I do not think there is any necessity to tie it to the online service. But if they do, that is fine too.
Personally I would rather Nintendo give me value to the online service for my $20, than just another game that would use it.

Hikingguy

backup368

@Hikingguy Well, Nintendo is about to do that as well, but it needs to succeed, or else they will lose a lot of money. They aren't doing this to expect people NOT to subscribe to it. And so far, what they are offering isn't enough to make consumers choose their online service over XBox Live. I don't need online to enjoy Smash Bros, but I do need online to enjoy Fortnite, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch, Grand Theft Auto Online, and many other games, and thus, paying $60 a year for XBox Live sounds like the better investment.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe was a big seller for the fact that many people didn't own a Wii-U. The same cannot be said about Smash Bros. in 2014, because it was also on the 3DS. The 3DS version was head and shoulders the better selling version, and the 3DS was the better selling system with 72 million consoles sold. Mario Kart 8 was never available for the 3DS. Mario Kart 7 was. They could have just made "Mario Kart 7 Deluxe" for Wii-U, but clearly the Wii-U had hardware that was more capable than the 3DS, just like the Switch has more capable hardware than the Wii-U. Don't you think that maybe you would like to have new games for your new console?

Thanks to the 3DS, 2014 Smash Bros did more than enough to succeed. But isn't it possible for Nintendo to make something that is even better? Netherrealm made Injustice 1 which is an incredible game, but they didn't say "We don't need to make a sequel. The first game is fine as is. We'll just port that to next gen systems and include Blue Beetle and Firestorm, and we can just kick back and watch money pile up. I'm sure it will be a huge system/online subscription seller."

Because it's a developer's job to develop new games. Ports are usually low effort, low risk investments when developers are busy at work making something entirely new. There are a myriad of PS3 games ported to PS4, but that isn't to say that it's their main priority.

Edited on by backup368

backup368

Switch Friend Code: SW-3852-6842-9110

Pazzo-TheFool

On the topic of amiibo, I hope the game actually has less characters than Smash 4. This'd help out with making the entire cast into amiibo, maybe even producing some alt. colors.

'The shortest route was a detour. It was a detour that was our shortest path.'
Tell me your favorite plant.
~~youtu.be/r0HnIr6jYWU~~

backup368

@Pazzo-ZaFool I think they are willing to manufacture even more, as long as they have the manpower to do it. If not, they can always just print cards in amiibo form.

backup368

Switch Friend Code: SW-3852-6842-9110

Hikingguy

@backup368 I would not say the jump between the 3DS and Wii U and Wii U and Switch is a fair comparison.
I have owned both the 3DS and Wii U version of Smash and there is nothing to compare. The Wii U is by far and away the superior version. Although Nintendo most likely made money on the 3DS version, it is not nearly the optimal way to play. And I know if the 3DS version of Smash was my only version that I have ever played, a Switch version would be a HUGE improvement and I would be more than happy with that game, if not nearly thinking it is an almost entirely new entry in the series.

People are already trained to pay for online. You are worrying about nothing. People will see the $20 annual cost as a discount. And if Nintendo does a good job, the other online services might have to reconsider their cost.
If you want to play SSB4 Switch online, you will have to pay. Most people will gladly pay even without Smash.
I see not needing online as a bonus. I will not need online to enjoy the game. All those other games will be a shadow of themselves once the online portion is shutdown, but SSB4 Switch will be playable in full long after any servers are shut down. Win for gamers. So paying $60 a years sounds like a deterrent to me.

Comparing Nintendo to Netherrealms is unfair to Netherrealms. Smash is on its 4th installment and has its game play and mechanics already worked out and for the most part, everything is well established. The Smash crowd is notorious for being incredibly finicky to changes to the formula. Why would Nintendo want to gamble on a new game by make another game that might anger the establish crowd? That sounds like a risk I would not want to take.
Now if this was Super Smash Bros (1999), there would still be plenty of room to grow. I mean, people clearly are still playing Super Smash Bros Brawl from 2008. So the standard for how the game plays has been ironed out.
Anyway, talking about time frames,
SSB 1999
SSBM 2001
SSBB 2008
SSB4 2014
Besides the release of Melee, there has been many years in between releases. And since it is only been about 3.5 years since SSB4, it seems like history would tell me that Nintendo will want more time to work on any sequel, especially since, according to you, the vast majority of people have only played the 3DS version. That means that most people have not really experienced the full blown game. Hence a well timed enhanced port would be the fasted way to get the game into the most people's hands and make Nintendo a lot of money.
Anyway, it is not like this is a bad game. SSB4, arguably might be the best version to date. There is no way that a new game would make any kind of jumps in quality or game play to demand a 5th sequel.

But I might be totally wrong. Maybe a new game is absolutely needed.

Hikingguy

Pazzo-TheFool

backup368 wrote:

@Pazzo-ZaFool I think they are willing to manufacture even more, as long as they have the manpower to do it. If not, they can always just print cards in amiibo form.

This is true.

Look man, I'm desparate for a more non-character content-filled Smash, lol.

EDIT: By this I mean that less characters tends to equal better non-character content. Smash 4 was never going to have individual Break The Targets, Board the Platforms, or maybe even Race to the Finish if there's 50+ in the roster.

Edited on by Pazzo-TheFool

'The shortest route was a detour. It was a detour that was our shortest path.'
Tell me your favorite plant.
~~youtu.be/r0HnIr6jYWU~~

skywake

backup368 wrote:

skywake wrote:

Smash Bros is a fighting game, it's not a game that I get excited about a new release for because of all the new things. It's a game that I get excited about a new release because it means I can play it on the new hardware. It's not that I'm opposed to the idea of Smash Bros 5 so much as I don't see why you are so opposed to a deluxe release of Smash 4.

Thanks for joining us. To answer your question, there have been over 30 new first party games that have released since the previous Smash Bros. game, and a port would make it seem like most of those games do not matter to Nintendo.

Secondly, to release a port of a game to help promote a paid online service when the original game has free online would be unethical and useless. If you already have the Wii-U or 3DS version, what would make you pay $20 a year?

Glad I answered your question.

1. Why do you think a deluxe release would have no new content? How many of those 30 games are not represented? How many would be represented in a Smash 5 compared to a deluxe release?

2. You're yet to explain why online is part of this discussion. Infact you said it wasn't about one game earlier....

Edited on by skywake

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backup368

@KaiserGX Not my problem. It isn't about one game to sell an online service, with that considered, it isn't likely they are saving a port for such occasion.

Raise you hand if you think there will not be a Smash Bros. game coming this year. 🙋

Now raise your hand if you think there should be a variety of games to be available in a paid online service. 🙋

Yep, the two ideas can perfectly co-exist.

backup368

Switch Friend Code: SW-3852-6842-9110

Euler

Meowpheel wrote:

There's the thing, nothing really suggests that a smash bros game will come out in september.

Not a port, not a new game.

The other thing: if it were to happen, it would likely be a port, if only for the fact that these games don't usually get announced and released in the same year.

But... but... but... Emily Rogers says it's coming out this year!

Euler

KaiserGX

@backup368
Raise your hand if you think it's possible that a deluxe port of Super Smash Bros. 4 could come out this year. 🙋
Now raise your hand if you think there should be a variety of games to be made available in a paid online service. 🙋

Yep, two ideas can perfectly co-exist.

Edited on by KaiserGX

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backup368

@KaiserGX So if there are multiple games that will be releasing after the paid online service takes effect, that just makes a Super Smash Bros. 4 port that less necessary. I'm sure I have said this before.

@skywake I never said that it wouldn't have new content, but what people are expecting, with all the DLC and all the content from both games, and only a couple of new characters and stages, it's far from enough considering how much time it is taking and how many new games are releasing. And on E3, there will be even more game announced.

Why is online part of the discussion? I don't know, just ask me. I started the discussion.

backup368

Switch Friend Code: SW-3852-6842-9110

Grumblevolcano

On the 1st party front, all Nintendo can really do for online is Smash and/or Pokemon. We've already got all the other big 1st party online multiplayer franchises coming before then except other Mario sports games but we're getting Mario Tennis Aces in Spring so it's not like Mario Golf will follow soon after.

So either a Smash 4 port will be a major part of promoting the paid online service or Nintendo's managed to get some massive 3rd party support like fully featured versions of Overwatch, Hearthstone, CoD, FIFA, etc. for the fall/holiday season with crossplay on PC/XB1 (Sony's not going to budge on the crossplay front, at least for a few more years).

Grumblevolcano

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KaiserGX

@backup368 Honestly man I don't care what you have to say anymore. You're just spinning yourself in a circle and contradicting yourself and switching topics.

The thing is Smash could easily just be a platform where they can just keep updating it and bringing in new stuff. I think this would solve both problems. Besides new characters and stages, Smash 4 didn't really bring anything that was really new and anything they did bring, didn't really stick or mattered to the core gameplay in the longrun.

Edit: I know a lot of people hate Josh but he's having a discussion livestream about a Smash Port right now with Rodger's Base.
https://gaming.youtube.com/c/NintendoBeyond/live

I know I'm not allowed to advertise myself but am I allowed to link to other people's pages? If not I'll take it down.

Edited on by KaiserGX

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