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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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rallydefault

@skywake
Lol "rants" - so if we have stuff to say you assign it a negative word? People are making good points, my friend. And it's kind of a huge deal. If the NX isn't capable of not only running games at 4k, but running them well, Nintendo can very much find this sparkling new system of theirs stalling out a couple years down the line when its competitors are anchored in with capable tech.

rallydefault

skywake

@rallydefault
I didn't mean any negative connotations. I only used that word because my response was going to be short and dispassionate by comparison. The simple point is that 4K, whatever you think of the merits, is about as big now as 1080p was in 2006. Which is to say that it doesn't matter much at this very moment. But like 1080p it might matter a lot very quickly.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

skywake

I was looking for a source to back up my claim that UHDTVs now are where HDTVs were in 2006. But if you go based on these numbers? It's actually moving quite a bit faster. Though to be fair this is the sets themselves. I'm pretty sure content isn't moving anywhere near as fast. UHD content barely exists....

Untitled
http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/19/4k-uhd-tvs-are-being-adopte...

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

rallydefault

@skywake
Yea, 4k content is pretty darn slim right now. But based on what you're showing, actual hardware adoption is on the ups. I expect to see some aggressive bumps in available 4k content through 2017. I am starting to see advertisements for certain programs being available in UHD on some of the main channels here in the U.S. (Fox/ABC/NBC/CBS). I believe certain portions of the Olympics this summer were available in UHD, too.

And we know Sony and Microsoft have it firmly in their sights.

@BiasedSonyFan
"The market that they're trying to appeal to doesn't even care about that." Seriously, man? Some of the stuff you type just makes me shake my head. As a Nintendo fan firmly in Nintendo's target market, you certainly do NOT speak for my feelings on the matter. You've gotta stop making these absolute statements that assume YOU know what EVERY consumer wants.

rallydefault

Moshugan

The NX will most likely not be able to run games in 4K out-of-the-box, but that's what the Supplemental Computing Device is for, isn't it?

My Super Mario Maker 2's Maker ID: R7B-M93-5GF

Nintendo Network ID: Moshugan

gcunit

@Moshugan Yes, that's right - 4k, and toasted sandwiches.

SCD = Sandwich Crisping Device.

Edited on by gcunit

You guys had me at blood and semen.

What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

My Nintendo: gcunit | Nintendo Network ID: gcunit

Therad

BiasedSonyFan wrote:

@skywake

4K is being adopted faster than 1080p. Just 46% of American households had a HD TV in 2010. HD TVs entered the TV market in 2000, I think? So 4K TVs are expected to be in 50% of American households in about half the time it took for HD TVs reached the same adoption rate (by 2020).

With that said, the faster adoption rate seems to have alot to do with networks trying to push 4K as the standard for programming and TV manufacturers following suit. However, diminishing returns are a thing, and it's difficult for a typical American household even with a video game console to justify getting a 4K TV. Even a 70-inch 4K TV display (which is not exactly a small TV) doesn't provide the full benefits of improvement over a 70-inch 1080p display unless you're sitting less than 5 feet away from the TV (the average TV viewing distance is 9 feet).

To be fair, people really don't understand 4k. They only know it is better than 1080p. With the right marketing, it will sell. Just look at any gamer forum, many want 4k. Not because they benefit from it, but a perceived benefit.

I think 4k can pick up speed fairly quickly, since the price has gone down rapidly. I bought a second TV recently, and the difference between 1080p and 4k with hdr was quite small.

HDR btw, is where gamers could gain better graphics. That is what we should hope for.

Edited on by Therad

Therad

Therad

Moshugan wrote:

The NX will most likely not be able to run games in 4K out-of-the-box, but that's what the Supplemental Computing Device is for, isn't it?

The SCD patent is really misquoted. It is more about sharing cpu power over the internet than graphics processing. For me it sounded like a way for someone to more or less outsource their server infrastructure. So a box like that could be used for replacing Mario kart servers for example.

Therad

rallydefault

@BiasedSonyFan
I can speak for some, at least. Your argument, though, is highly illogical: That you know what 100% of Nintendo's target market is thinking/what they want. And you try to criticize me speaking up? Give me a break.

And yea, the Wii wasn't HD. But why do you people keep going back to the Wii? The Wii was brilliant on Nintendo's part. Yes, they hit a bubble at JUST the right time and bottled lightning. It was amazing. But that didn't happen previous, nor has it happened since. Comparing everything to the Wii, in MY opinion, is also illogical. It's like comparing every football play to that ONE TIME your guy threw for an 80-yard touchdown. Yea - everything else is going to be terrible in contrast. And for you to expect that kind of thing again just doesn't make sense. It ain't gonna happen.

Also, why are you bringing size of the TV into the matter? I own a 50-inch HDTV. That is not "gigantic." And I run my Xbox One/PS4 on it with excellent results, in my opinion. Yes, 4k TVs only come in larger sizes, but again, you're being illogical. There IS a very noticeable upgrade between HD and UHD. Twice the difference, to be very technical. And you CAN see the difference. You're like one of those standard-def holdouts: "Well, I can't see the difference <grumble grumble>" while literally EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM thinks you're insane.

Come on, man. You're up to your usual antics: being contrarian just for the sake of raising some cane.

And your statement about them seeming to not be concerned with 4k for the NX? We literally know NOTHING about the NX aside from it being Nintendo's next gaming hardware. Every comment you make is just pure emotion and "I feel this way" on your part: You seem to care nothing for the actual facts.

rallydefault

gcunit

My God, Nintendo! Can't you see what you're doing to us? We're so burnt out on premature hype we're bickering about whether there's an appreciable difference between Full HD and UHD image quality!

End this now, Nintendo, we're just not gonna last much longer...

You guys had me at blood and semen.

What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

My Nintendo: gcunit | Nintendo Network ID: gcunit

Moshugan

@gcunit Wouldn't mind that - I get hungry gaming! ;D

@Therad This doesn't sound like "just" a outsourced cloud server for online games. It specifically mentions local computing and cloud computing for graphics and such:

The Patent: wrote:

A gaming system, comprising: a game console comprising one or more processors configured to locally execute a game and provide video output of the game to a display and audio output of the game to a speaker, the game console including a physical network interface and a wireless communication interface; and a supplemental computing device configured to detachably couple to the game console via the physical communication interface, the supplemental computing device comprising: one or more processors configured to provide, over the physical communication interface, processing resources to the game console to assist the game console in locally executing the game; and memory for receiving data associated with the game from the game console and storing the data for later access by the game console wherein the game console is further configured to couple, via the wireless communication interface, to another supplemental computing device, the another supplemental computing device including one or more processors to provide processing resources to the game console and memory for providing storage resources to the game console.

...Relatively close supplemental computing devices may be able to provide services at a nearly real-time speed (e.g. processing real-time graphics and sound effects), while relatively far away devices may only be able to provide asynchronous or supplementary support to the events occurring on the console (e.g. providing for weather effects in games, artificial intelligence (AI), etc.). In some cases the supplementary support provided by the supplemental computing devices could be based on a best-effort basis. For example, in a computer chess game, some amount of onboard AI may be possible on board the console to provide relatively quick analysis, but supplemental computing devices may perform additional AI analysis. If the additional analysis is not received from the supplemental computing devices within a threshold time, the console can use what is available to it (e.g. the analysis done by the console or by any supplemental computing device that has returned its respective AI analysis).

@BiasedSonyFan Maybe Tegra could upscale, but it can't do native 4K for anything except media.

My Super Mario Maker 2's Maker ID: R7B-M93-5GF

Nintendo Network ID: Moshugan

skywake

BiasedSonyFan wrote:

@skywake

4K is being adopted faster than 1080p. Just 46% of American households had a HD TV in 2010. HD TVs entered the TV market in 2000, I think? So 4K TVs are expected to be in 50% of American households in about half the time it took for HD TVs reached the same adoption rate (by 2020).

Which is why I said UHD-TVs are about at the point HDTVs were in 2006

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Therad

rallydefault wrote:

@BiasedSonyFan
I can speak for some, at least. Your argument, though, is highly illogical: That you know what 100% of Nintendo's target market is thinking/what they want. And you try to criticize me speaking up? Give me a break.

And yea, the Wii wasn't HD. But why do you people keep going back to the Wii? The Wii was brilliant on Nintendo's part. Yes, they hit a bubble at JUST the right time and bottled lightning. It was amazing. But that didn't happen previous, nor has it happened since. Comparing everything to the Wii, in MY opinion, is also illogical. It's like comparing every football play to that ONE TIME your guy threw for an 80-yard touchdown. Yea - everything else is going to be terrible in contrast. And for you to expect that kind of thing again just doesn't make sense. It ain't gonna happen.

Also, why are you bringing size of the TV into the matter? I own a 50-inch HDTV. That is not "gigantic." And I run my Xbox One/PS4 on it with excellent results, in my opinion. Yes, 4k TVs only come in larger sizes, but again, you're being illogical. There IS a very noticeable upgrade between HD and UHD. Twice the difference, to be very technical. And you CAN see the difference. You're like one of those standard-def holdouts: "Well, I can't see the difference <grumble grumble>" while literally EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM thinks you're insane.

Come on, man. You're up to your usual antics: being contrarian just for the sake of raising some cane.

And your statement about them seeming to not be concerned with 4k for the NX? We literally know NOTHING about the NX aside from it being Nintendo's next gaming hardware. Every comment you make is just pure emotion and "I feel this way" on your part: You seem to care nothing for the actual facts.

Two things, 4k (2160p) has four times the pixels count of 1080p.

And biasedsonyfan is correct in this case. You must sit much closer or have a much larger tv to gain thevbenefit of 4k. https://www.cnet.com/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/

Notice the chart there, you can follow it to the source to get a more technical account. And yes, with a viewing distance of 9 feet, we see that a 70 inch is the minimum you need if you have perfect eye sight.

Therad

skywake

In terms of screen resolution jumps:

240p -> 480p = ~5x
480p -> 720p = ~3x
480p -> 1080p = ~7x
720p -> 1080p = ~2x
1080p -> 4K -> ~4x

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Therad

Moshugan wrote:

@gcunit Wouldn't mind that - I get hungry gaming! ;D

@Therad This doesn't sound like "just" a outsourced cloud server for online games. It specifically mentions local computing and cloud computing for graphics and such:

The%20Patent: wrote:

A gaming system, comprising: a game console comprising one or more processors configured to locally execute a game and provide video output of the game to a display and audio output of the game to a speaker, the game console including a physical network interface and a wireless communication interface; and a supplemental computing device configured to detachably couple to the game console via the physical communication interface, the supplemental computing device comprising: one or more processors configured to provide, over the physical communication interface, processing resources to the game console to assist the game console in locally executing the game; and memory for receiving data associated with the game from the game console and storing the data for later access by the game console wherein the game console is further configured to couple, via the wireless communication interface, to another supplemental computing device, the another supplemental computing device including one or more processors to provide processing resources to the game console and memory for providing storage resources to the game console.

...Relatively close supplemental computing devices may be able to provide services at a nearly real-time speed (e.g. processing real-time graphics and sound effects), while relatively far away devices may only be able to provide asynchronous or supplementary support to the events occurring on the console (e.g. providing for weather effects in games, artificial intelligence (AI), etc.). In some cases the supplementary support provided by the supplemental computing devices could be based on a best-effort basis. For example, in a computer chess game, some amount of onboard AI may be possible on board the console to provide relatively quick analysis, but supplemental computing devices may perform additional AI analysis. If the additional analysis is not received from the supplemental computing devices within a threshold time, the console can use what is available to it (e.g. the analysis done by the console or by any supplemental computing device that has returned its respective AI analysis).

@BiasedSonyFan Maybe Tegra could upscale, but it can't do native 4K for anything except media.

Observe, the "may". You are right in that a SCD could bump the graphical power if it is connected directly to the console, basically a SLI-setup. But they wouldn't be able to transfer graphics in this way over wireless. To be able to send and receive a single frame at 30fps, they have 33ms to send information to another unit, let it process it and send it back. This would mean that the SCD must be vastly more powerful than the console itself, since it would be able to render it much faster.

AI and server architecture is where the mythical SCD could shine, but don't expect them

An SLI setup could plug one of the problems Nintendo has, namely being cheap or powerful. But wouldn't it be easier to just sell two variants of the console in that case? Pro and Basic?

Therad

IceClimbers

PlayerEssence isn't a reliable source.

3DS Friend Code: 2363-5630-0794

gcunit

@Therad It was quite an optimistic take on things. Stuff mentioned incl 'twice as powerful as PS4, just under PS4 Pro', Vanquish 2, Final Fantasy 6 remake, an architecture that supposedly renders the differences between ARM and x86 irrelevant so anything goes....

You guys had me at blood and semen.

What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

My Nintendo: gcunit | Nintendo Network ID: gcunit

Moshugan

@IceClimbers Don't you mean that Tenkay isn't a reliable source?
I think PlayerEssence never claimed to have insider info. OJ is only reporting on rumors from other people.

@gcunit There was no "red herring" (i.e. implausible) bits in these rumors, but they also sound like soothsaying - exactly the kind of things fans would like to hear.
High powered home console, lots of third party support, two different devices which might share the same game library...

@Therad You're right about the potential uses and issues with an SCD, but I just wanted to show that the patent indeed has talk about graphics processing too.

My Super Mario Maker 2's Maker ID: R7B-M93-5GF

Nintendo Network ID: Moshugan

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