Forums

Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

Posts 4,721 to 4,740 of 69,962

Bolt_Strike

IceClimbers wrote:

@Bolt_Strike You assume Nintendo is trying to compete with Sony and Microsoft. If that's the case, then they might as well cancel the NX as they've already lost that battle.

If the NX is as rumored? Then the Pro and Scorpio are of no concern. The latter of which doesn't even come out for another year.

If they're not competing with Microsoft and Sony, then their only other option is to compete with mobile, and that might be even tougher. Those are pretty much their only two options, no other market is big enough to be sustainable.

My guess is that Nintendo's going for a little bit of everyone with the NX. They can't compete with console and mobile directly, so the NX is targeting a compromise market, one that is just powerful enough to get the same kind of support as consoles without being bank breaking, follows the development philosophy of casual games and includes a bit more general purpose apps that the casuals might enjoy, and retains that same Nintendo charm that we've seen throughout the years. If they can do that I think they have a winner.

skywake wrote:

I don't think there's some sort of FIFO queue system for news. I don't think Nintendo are trying to sell this thing to the same audience. Frankly I don't think Sony and Microsoft's new hardware is being thought about as "new hardware" either. Basically, I get the argument you're trying to make here. I'm listening to it. I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree with it on any level.

Well unless this thing is some kind of Nintendo iPhone/iPad they pretty much have to sell this to the same audience. Nintendo is going to keep being compared to Microsoft and Sony until they go full on mobile.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

FragRed

@IceClimbers Nintendo may not be competing against Sony and Microsoft in terms of specs but they are in terms of which system does the parents buy when they walk into that shop. In my local Game store, down the left of the shop is Xbox and down the right is PlayStation. Nintendo is a shelf in the middle which you wouldn't notice unless you actively wanted to buy Nintendo. And no one goes there, not even parents of children. They go to the other two systems when thinking about the console to buy.

So from that point of view, Nintendo is definitely competing. They may aim to be a second console but most people don't own a second console and would actively prefer Nintendo to be third party as it's far easier and cheaper for them to buy.

NEW WEBSITE LAUNCHED! Regular opinion articles, retro game reviews and impression pieces on new games! ENGAGE VG: EngageVG.com

TuVictus

I've noticed that Nintendo "isn't competing with Sony or Microsoft" when discussing the wii u and its bad sales. But I have a feeling alot of the same people that say that were proudly comparing wii sales numbers with the ps3 and 360.

TuVictus

rallydefault

Bluefiregamer wrote:

@Octane Well moot point or not we all saw the lackluster presentation that was well your right, about the history of 4k televisions instead of the actual console. LOL

Yea, but honestly, man, you're making the HUGE mistake internet people make: the internet and internet forums DO NOT represent the majority. By any stretch.

In fact, there's something out there like the 1% rule or something like that. Internet forums and news sites like IGN and even Nintendolife represent 1% OR LESS of the actual market that would be looking at any of the games/consoles/whatever we're talking about here.

And then you take into account that a bunch of people on internet forums seem like they have nothing better to do than to nit pick every miniscule thing... and yea. I'm not surprised THE INTERNET had a poor reaction to the PS Pro. But I'm not silly enough to believe that the internet's reaction will have anything to do with the actual reception and success/failure of the thing.

rallydefault

Grumblevolcano

Well I noticed that XB1 sales have increased by 1000%.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

faint

@Bolt_Strike this isn't as true as you think. The wiiu has some great games but as a console it's not interesting. The other to have something interesting in terms of hardware promised from the get go or began to do something interesting after release. If it was all about power the vita would be where the 3ds is.

[email protected]
friend code: 0103-9004-2456

Bolt_Strike

Operative wrote:

I've noticed that Nintendo "isn't competing with Sony or Microsoft" when discussing the wii u and its bad sales. But I have a feeling alot of the same people that say that were proudly comparing wii sales numbers with the ps3 and 360.

Yeah, Nintendo and their more apologetic fans tend to claim that they're "not competing" when they just don't have a good product. It's an excuse, the fact of the matter is that they're always competing as long as all three of them are selling dedicated gaming devices. You're going after the same market as long as that remains true.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

rallydefault

@BiasedSonyFan

Come on, man. You insult yourself. You're better than that previous comment. You know you're being ridiculous by saying "reveals don't matter." And that had nothing to do with my comment. You know why? Because big reveals get mainstream media coverage, not just stuff on IGN and Gamespot or whatever. Stuff like TIME and Newsweek. Slightly bigger audiences.

Anyway, I know it can be rough to face the truth, but I will say it again: Minority internet opinion by jaded gamers on forums much like these mean absolutely NOTHING. And yes, I do think your average consumer has a much different opinion on games/hardware than most of us, because they don't spend hours a day obsessing over the hobby. Just common sense there.

rallydefault

DefHalan

On my opinion, the "core" game market is the majority of the target audience. "Casual" gamers are not people that don't play games. The "casual" audience now is very different than when the DS and Wii launched. Everyone has apps on their phone and has access to easy to use, simple games. Now the "Casual" audience are watching the game industry, they are also buying games and playing them on systems. Mostly the "Casual" audience are people that buy 1 to 3 games a year and one of those is probably a yearly release, probably all 3 of them. So reveals are important, getting info out there and getting people talking about an actual product is important. People are more informed now than ever and Nintendo needs to give us information. When and how are up for debate but the reveal is important as that shapes the way people talk about it until launch and beyond.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

TuVictus

Yeah... I'm of the mind that "people like us" are underestimated in how we can affect certain consoles or games. I mean, wasn't it "people like us" that pretty much gave federation force no chance in hell of succeeding? Same for color splash? I'm sure if we had been much more receptive to those games when revealed, Nintendo probably would have put more muscle into marketing them.

Maybe. Or not. But I definitely disagree with the idea that we have no impact.

TuVictus

gcunit

@Operative I agree with your disagreement.

The gaming press feeds off user vibes. They take their cues from what the chatter is in places like this. They're influenced by what we say. Heck, some of them are probably active users on forums themselves.

Not only that, does anyone else notice how NintendoLife articles never seem to fail to pick up on some negativity. Pretty much every Federation Force article mentions how poorly received it was as a concept, same goes for Color Splash and many games (e.g. Star Fox Zero was never written about without mention of its 'controversial' control scheme) before it. Same goes for the Wii U as a console. They make sure they mention it because the negativity is a talking point, it generates debate, page hits etc.

As soon a negative aspect on a new product emerges, a spiral of negativity begins and it becomes very difficult for that product to shake it. The Wii U couldn't shake it, despite that golden 12 months that gave us MK8, Splatoon, Smash U, Bayonetta 2; Federation Force couldn't shake it, despite positive reviews.

When NX is revealed, users on sites like this will get straight on to picking it apart and deciding whether it's a winner or not. The gaming media will feed off what we say and build an early reputation for the system that will be very hard to shift. Not impossible, but if approx 50% of the early reaction is negative, that spiral will kick in fast, because Nintendo as a company is caught in its own spiral.

Fortunately, things like Pokémon Go and the deal with Apple on Mario Run are recent positives that have put the brakes on Nintendo's negative spiral, but the legacy of the Wii's shovelware, the Wii U bombing, and the 3DS sales slowing and not getting close to DS, is still a massive cloud over Nintendo. If early reaction to the NX is not at least approx 66% positive then prepare for the cloud to open.

Fortunately it will be positive and rainbows and sunshine will fill our lives once more

You guys had me at blood and semen.

What better way to celebrate than firing something out of the pipe?

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

My Nintendo: gcunit | Nintendo Network ID: gcunit

rallydefault

@Operative

Your statement of "Maybe. Or not" sums it up. If you guys who are "pro minority" or whatever want to argue that people like us have an effect, that's about the most solid thing you can say without being some kind of data worm working in the actual industry with cold, hard facts at your fingertips. Anything more is just stuff you believe in your heart of hearts because you, like me, love this hobby and want to believe that these words you are tapping on your keyboard and sending into the ether actually mean something.

Honestly. That's all it is.

In the grand scheme of things, places like this mean nothing. Let's take your example of Federation Force. That game didn't fail because some people on the internet had a good whine over it. The game failed because it received zero main-stream marketing (I don't even know if I saw a single thing for it on Youtube or outside of Nintendo-centric sites). THAT'S why Federation Force failed. Not because @gcunit and @Operative on Nintendolife wrote some very moving diatribes about its faults.

Games sell over millions of copies when they have main-stream marketing. That's why CoD sells despite the overwhelming negative internet image. That's why Madden sells despite the overwhelming negative image. That's why games like The Division and Destiny and whatever else sell multiple millions despite bad internet press and terrible reviews and forum discussion. That's why ... get the point?

And that can even take us back to the classic "Why did the Wii U fail?" question. People love saying the negative image. What about the more common-sense approach? I saw maybe two - TWO - Wii U commercials on my television during the launch window. And behind me on the TV right now, literally, I can hear an Xbox One commercial playing. Yet we all want to say "It's because of IGN being biased against Nintendo and the forum comments are so toxic and wah wah wah." Get real. It's because Nintendo totally failed at main-stream, wide-reaching marketing.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

TuVictus

@rallydefault but why did federation force not receive more marketing? Maybe it's because people like us completely demolished it at every chance we saw it as these "minority" events like e3 or the Nintendo directs. Maybe if reception had been more positive, Nintendo would have sent more than two copies to each gamestop and bothered to talk about it more. To say the things the dedicated loyalists such as those on this forum or other sites like kotaku or destructoid don't matter AT ALL is... Disagreeable. Word of mouth is a powerful thing, and Nintendo often relies on it. And who starts talking at first? The people that watch the Nintendo directs and e3 and other gaming event presentations.

Also, I get the feeling that you view me as a typical Nintendo fan boy. In which case you couldn't be more wrong considering I'm usually the one at odds with many people on this forum. I just find it absurd to say Internet reaction has absolutely zero effect on a company or how it provides its products. Or do you mean to say that it wasn't the ridiculous backlash that made a giant corporation like Microsoft do a complete 180 on the original xbox one vision.

That said, yes Nintendo Sucks at marketing in every form.

Edited on by TuVictus

TuVictus

skywake

BiasedSonyFan wrote:

@skywake

What puzzling decisions?

I like Nintendo as much as the next Nintendo fanboy, but your question reeks of either ignorance or denial. Just this video game generation alone has several examples of ineptitude from Nintendo; even their current president has suggested that.

I think Nintendo did a good job to manage their blunders, but that doesn't mean that no blunders were made.

As I said, people make this claim but they can't back it up. They just vaguely gesture to the Wii U and talk about how bad their decisions around it were. But get specific. What puzzling decisions were made in regards to the Wii U? List them out.

You know why I know you don't have any decent answers? Well, you're already retreating. You're already saying that Nintendo did a good job of managing the failure that was the Wii U. They've moved onto the next thing, they've pulled development across. The games they did push on it before that decision? They were all pretty solid. As you said, the Wii U was managed well despite its failure to grab a decent sized audience.

And if it was managed well...... how have they also made puzzling/bad decisions regarding it? Management is nothing but a series of decisions. Something can't be managed well despite bad decisions. Something that's managed well is being managed well because the management are making good decisions.

Operative wrote:

I just find it absurd to say Internet reaction has absolutely zero effect on a company or how it provides its products. Or do you mean to say that it wasn't the ridiculous backlash that made a giant corporation like Microsoft do a complete 180 on the original xbox one vision.

Here's the thing. The reveal is important for gathering information about how the product will be received. It's one of the reasons why I personally think they should have unveiled the NX at E3. What better focus group for a game console than a gaming convention? As you said that sort of feedback matters.

But the discussion here isn't really about that. Instead we're talking about what impact a reveal has on the actual sales of a console. And really, I don't think it matters that much. There are extreme examples where it has mattered like the PS3's E3 2006 or the XBOne used game/kinect fumbles. But usually it doesn't. Ultimately what matters more is price, content and marketing. The reveal is certainly part of the marketing but it's only one part.

Basically what I'm saying is that I don't think it'll matter much what Nintendo says or does between now and the end of the year. That won't have much of a bearing on how well the NX does. What'll matter more is how they're talking about it in January and February. What they have on the shelves in March.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

TuVictus

Yeah, I can agree with that. Unless Nintendo did something really crazy off the wall like saying it'd be all digital or something similar to the Xbox one. But if the rumors are true, I think the reveal won't affect overall sales very much.

TuVictus

Bolt_Strike

skywake wrote:

As I said, people make this claim but they can't back it up. They just vaguely gesture to the Wii U and talk about how bad their decisions around it were. But get specific. What puzzling decisions were made in regards to the Wii U? List them out.

I can think of a few:

-The Gamepad itself. It isn't really capable of much that the DS and the 3DS weren't, and it caused a lot of problems for the Wii U including cost, confusion among non-Nintendo fans, and third party support.
-Subpar gaming lineup. There's a lot of different factors in this (the games didn't draw from the new hardware features enough, there were too many droughts, there were too many spinoffs and not enough main entries, etc.), but the games they released this generation in general failed to draw in anyone except core Nintendo fans, and several of them have been commercial failures.
-Mismanagement with VC. Starting from scratch and forcing people to buy games they already own all over again was not a popular decision among fans.

There's also a couple of other things Nintendo's done with its hardware and services such as region locking and staggering regional releases, poor support of MyNintendo, and draconian policies with fan content that make me question whether or not they can make good decisions with their hardware and software and properly promote it.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

skywake

@Bolt_Strike
I'll give you the GamePad as a "bad decision" even though I'm not convinced it was. Ultimately I think that the concept was good it just didn't take as well as it could have. Hindsight is 20:20. But I'll give you that one.

On the software lineup? I don't agree. There was an issue early on with not enough software out of the gate. Nintendo Land, as fantastic a game as it was, didn't spark people's interest in the way Wii Sports did. And while we can complain about New SMB U being a launch game I think it's kinda hard to complain given the sales of the series. But once they got over that? The output from Nintendo was solid..... until they started to pull resources away from the Wii U in early 2015. Which in the long run was a good move.

Third party support? That wasn't a decision on Nintendo's part. Third parties ultimately don't care about the hardware as much as people think. What they care about is sales. If there's a huge install base? They'll port the games. If the Wii U had sold have as well as the Wii did in those first two years? And by that I mean literally 20mill units sold by Dec 2014 rather than the 9mill they sold? Third party's couldn't have ignored it. But it didn't, so by that stage even Nintendo was pulling back.

The VC? Well now I know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel. I think of myself as one of the most vocal people about the VC on these forums. Particularly in regards to the lack of cross-buy. So I think it should say something that I think you're grasping as straws with that one. Frankly the VC doesn't even need to exist. People are going to complain about it regardless because some feel they're entitled to those games for free. Hell, people complained when at the launch of the service they sold VC titles for 30c each!

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

skywake

@BiasedSonyFan
The Wii U was not a Virtual Boy or Saturn. It was more a Dreamcast or Gamecube. There weren't really a series of huge mistakes that caused the Wii U to become a failure. The Wii U did poorly because it was the wrong product for the market as it was. Nintendo misread what the consumers wanted. They rolled the dice and came up with nothing.

Now you guys can rake over the coals if you want. You can come up with all sorts of things and point at them as the reasons why the Wii U failed. You can point out what Nintendo could have done differently. You might be right, you're probably not. We can't exactly test your different decisions in an alternate universe. But at the end of the day? What you guys are saying here amounts to three things:

Nintendo made a bad decision having the Wii U not sell well
Nintendo made a bad decision when third parties moved resources away from the failing Wii U
Nintendo made a bad decision moving their resources away from the failing Wii U

I'd argue that the first two weren't decisions Nintendo made. The third one was the right call.

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic