Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@Octane Yeah, 3rd party support will be minimal and tailored to the casual audience. So Ubisoft's support will be stuff like Just Dance, Just Sing and Rabbids.

Hrm, I don't know. If NX is decently priced and sells well, even to a "casual" audience, I think we'll see a ton of third-party stuff. I still think this is an incredible idea that hinges on price. If they hit the sweet spot and have a few awesome launch titles (which the same rumors are saying they will or within 6 months), I can see people picking this up because it's a portable OR you can just leave it connected to your TV and pretend it's a home console, and it can play Nintendo games on the cheap.

If you look at feedback from the so-called "hardcore" crowd that own PS4/Xbox One and seem to mock Nintendo, the big thing that keeps coming up is: "I would buy a Wii U for a couple games, but the price just isn't worth it." That's it. I've also seem the very same people salivating over the possibility of a $200 price point.

I just don't see how they can make this a $200 purchase at launch, especially when they've said they don't want to sell these things at a loss. Best case would be they aim for somewhere below $250- say $229.

@rallydefault I agree with you, I think a lot of people view the Wii U as a 'console they'd like to own' but for the price/number of games worth playing it isn't worth investing in. That is why I think a hybrid system is the way to go. If people had access to Pokemon, A Link Between Worlds (+OoT and MM remakes), Fire Emblem, Luigi's Mansion, Monster Hunter, Animal Crossing among other titles that came to the 3DS, the argument that there aren't so many games 'worth playing' holds less water and therefore the system becomes more justifiable in price.

And if the NX is a success in getting a decent install base then you can be sure that developers will become keener on putting their titles on it. For Nintendo, this won't be a direct priority, but probably viewed as a positive upside of the hybrid system if it takes off. Fundamentally though, Nintendo are aiming to support this system mostly off the back of their united first-party titles.

@dtjive I don't think being a hybrid will necessarily solve the problem of being not enough games. I think the problem isn't so much just the lack of first party games that came to the Wii U (and this may not change all that much even with all teams working on a single system now) but also the sheer lack of third party games. And that's going to be the same reasoning why many won't buy the NX. It won't get the third party support outside casual stuff.

@FragRed Nah, NX will get Japanese 3rd party support as well.

@dtjive
Exactly: let's keep looking at these people that Nintendo clearly missed with the Wii U. They like Nintendo games. They really do. Most of them will freely admit it.

But look at how long it took the Wii U to put out some of its "bigger" titles that appeal to all sorts of gamers: Mario Kart 8 was probably the first title on the system that made those "I already own a PS4, but I do enjoy a good Nintendo game..." people consider buying a Wii U, and that didn't come out until May of 2014, a year and half after the system launched. Before that, we had... NSMBU (viewed largely as "just another" side scrolling Mario, nothing new), Pikmin 3 (let's face it - a relatively small franchise that is popular among the Nintendo faithful), Tropical Freeze (wonderful game, but received terrible word of mouth, even from some of us at the time who were angry it was ANOTHER DKCR game) and... Nintendoland?

The pickings were pretty darn slim. The install base never stood a chance at expanding outside of the Nintendo faithful in its first two years, which is the crucial time to get the ball rolling. At that point, the door closed on SO MANY of those gamers who would've happily ponied up even $300 if it meant they could play a new Zelda, Mario Kart, and Smash.

So, if these reports are true, Nintendo seems committed to releasing a bunch of their major franchises within 6 months of NX's launch, which could flip the story around.

I think one of the big problems with the NX not having a lot of "Big 3rd Party support" is there is less of a gateway for Players to transfer to Nintendo. I know a lot of people say, "if you want X game buy Y console," but if you look at that from outside the Nintendo fandom, you run into a situation of I want to play X game, but also wouldn't mind checking out Nintendo games, if Nintendo games doesn't have X games then they don't have a gateway.

We will see what happens but the list of "on board" publishers for NX sounds the same as Wii U at launch, all we are missing is an "impressive" collaboration between Nintendo and EA

@DefHalan I think you're right. Currently it's the Wii U games vs virtually every other PS4 and XOne game. Whereas if the NX got all the multiplat games, it only would be Nintendo's exclusives vs PS4's exclusives or XOne's exclusives. I have friends that bought a PS4 or XOne just to play FIFA, or COD and Battlefield for example. But they also love Nintendo games, once in a while we still hook up an N64 or GameCube just to play Mario Kart or Smash for example. If those games were on a Nintendo system, I know they would've picked one up instead of a PS or Xbox, just so they could also play Mario Kart, Smash or maybe even a regular Mario game.

@DefHalan Thing is, that gateway for the big blockbuster western AAA games doesn't exist on Nintendo's platforms anyways - those people already own a PlayStation or an Xbox to play those games on or will buy the system their friends are on. Therefore it's not an incentive to pick up Nintendo's system.

Bottom line is, the NX was never going to get the big western AAA 3rd party games, even if it was a PS4 clone. Period. Nobody cares about buying a Nintendo system for those games. That's the market reality, and has been for the past two decades. They were always only going to get the Japanese third party support, indies, and minor western third party support.

Those are the types of games an alternative platform gets. Nintendo is an alternative whether they like it or not. Therefore they need to make a platform that is appealing as an alternative. A PS4 clone is NOT an appealing alternative platform.

@IceClimbers The thing is that Nintendo once was in the position Sony is now in, before Sony entered the market actually. There's no reason why Nintendo can't be the go-to system anymore. It takes a lot of effort, marketing and offering better deals than the competition. And it isn't going to happen overnight, but it's certainly possible. People say that Nintendo cannot compete with Sony and Microsoft, but let's be honest, when was the last time they made a serious effort to compete with those systems? Maybe the N64? But even that system was held back by expensive cartridges. Nintendo has never had the easy-to-develop-for platform and that has been one of the big reasons why third party support and their relations with third parties have dwindled over the years.

That is the problem. they don't have that gateway. There are people buying game systems everyday and the less options Nintendo has, the less likely those people will buy a Nintendo system. If Nintendo had those games then Nintendo could become an option. Without those gateway games, how are people supposed to discover Nintendo? Nintendo has seen they are missing gateway software, and this is why they are targeting Mobile platforms. Having 3rd Party would give them another gateway.

If the NX had the power for easier ports, as easy as from PS4 to XB1, then why wouldn't NX get those ports? The cost of ports would be very low and companies would be able to recover that cost, and make profit on those ports, a lot easier. Wii didn't have the power and Wii U was late to the game, then was quickly over looked because of a lack of power. We can't say for certain if Nintendo had a system with PS4 power (or higher) if they would or wouldn't get 3rd Party support. Without this power, without these ports, Nintendo won't have a gateway.

Wii U should have been a good choice for an alternative platform. It got different games than the other two and mostly backed by strong 1st party titles. However, we all know how the Wii U panned out. People would rather own a PS4 and XB1 instead of a PS4 and Wii U, or XB1 and Wii U. If Nintendo was getting these gateway games, people could be tempted to get a Nintendo system as their second system. "Well, I hear good things about this game (multiplatform) and I am interested in this series (1st party) maybe I will get a new system to play both these games." I have heard a lot of people talk like this. You look at facebook comments on popular games, like Rocket League, and people talk about owning the same game on multiple systems. There are people that own it on PS4/XB1/PC and why is Nintendo not on that list? Because Nintendo doesn't have the game.

_{The lack of Rocket League on a Nintendo system probably has to do more with install base, but if porting was easier, then maybe they would have taken that risk. A easy port or large install base leads to more 3rd Party, but even with the Wii's large install base it didn't get the big 3rd Party games...}

@DefHalan I think Rocket League is more a case of the fact Nintendo had explicitly given the Wii U its grave before the game could've even been released on that platform.

@Grumblevolcano We may never know the exact reasons why particular games don't come to a system, but why would a company want to give developers reasons not to support their hardware? Nintendo seems to go out of its way to push developers away as far as possible.

@DefHalan Nintendo wants all the glory if it exists. If NX succeeded with very poor 3rd party support then that really shows the sheer importance of Nintendo's IPs. If however NX succeeded with very good 3rd party support then that kind of diminishes the importance of Nintendo's IPs.

So basically the mindset they had back in the 80s where there was a forced restriction on the number of 3rd party games created by each developer. The downside of this logic is namely what happens if the console doesn't succeed.

@Grumblevolcano I think they already proved how well a console with barely any third party support does on the market..

@Grumblevolcano Even if a console succeeds without 3rd Party support (look at Wii. it didn't have most of 3rd party support) it doesn't mean much for Nintendo IPs. If the NX succeeds with 3rd Party support but 1st party software was still the best selling software on the system, then doesn't that still show the importance of Nintendo IPs? It just doesn't make much sense to release something that pushes developers away anymore. With the Wii they tried something new and it worked, with the Wii U they tried something new and failed. Both times they pushed away support and hurt themselves in the long run.

@Octane @DefHalan I know but that doesn't stop Nintendo trying again. If you look at comments made by Nintendo about why Wii U didn't do well they always talk stuff like it not being advertised well or the 1st party lineup was weak. They want the 1st party games and console gimmicks to be the reasons people buy Nintendo consoles.

@Grumblevolcano and that is fine, but I don't think that has to go against giving 3rd party an easier time supporting your system too.

There's rumours suggesting Nintendo will start NX production in early Q4 2016 which would be January 2017 I think?

Early Q4 2016 would be October, which would make sense if they want plenty of units on store shelves by March. I don't know how production schedules for hardware works like this, but I think January would be too late.