Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

We're talking about self driving cars here where there's a lot of image processing involved. Something where you need low powered and reliable parts and where GPUs are particularly efficient. It's not a small market. Also I don't think they particularly care about how it'll impact their "reputation". Nor do I see how partnering with companies like Audi and Tesla is going to hurt them.

BTW, their reputation is pretty solid. If you are someone working in any sort of media field professionally? Odds are you have an NVidia GPU. If you walked into Pixar and grabbed a PC from under one of their desks? It's going to have an NVidia GPU in it. If you walked around the back to their server room? That would also have NVidia GPUs in it. And you'd probably find the same if you walked into other animation studios, film studios, TV networks and even the Universities where they teach this stuff.

And for PCs it's largely the same. You pay a premium for NVidia GPUs because they're made by NVidia. They're a little bit quieter, a little bit cooler and a little bit more reliable. Which you pay a premium for. I have an AMD GPU in my PC because it was better value. No doubt about it, AMD is usually the one with a better value part. But despite that, if you look at the Steam Hardware survey? 18% of gaming PCs have an Intel GPU, 25% have AMD, 57% have NVidia. They need NX to build up their reputation? NVidia are already the kings.

PS4 isn't going to last forever. What you're saying makes sense for this mid-generation upgrade, and developers cannot make Neo-exclusive games, they have to work on the base PS4. But eventually the industry will move on, including Sony.

Andrew House, president and CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment, told the Financial Times that the "high-end" version of the PS4 — rumored to be codenamed "Neo" — would be more expensive than the current $350 model. House added that it was designed to "sit alongside and complement" the standard version of the PS4.

"We will be selling both [versions] through the life cycle," House said.

http://www.polygon.com/2016/6/10/11902000/ps4-neo-confirmed-s...

PS4 has a life cycle. That implies it will eventually have an end, which implies PS4 will eventually be replaced by a next generation console. I don't think Sony will have a PS4 Neo 2.0 meaning "an even higher-end PS4".

At some point the base PS4 will be completely obsolete. Sony will introduce a PS5. Whether that's 2020 or 2021 or 2022, nobody knows, but it will happen. With x86 architecture PS5 will be backward compatible with all PS4 games, but at the same time, it will be a new generation where developers are able to make games that would be impossible on the base PS4 from 2013.

Why would Sony restart their install base? Because developers won't keep making games for PS4 forever once the market is saturated with PS4s and there's no way to get anything more out of the base hardware. That's a long way away but even the mighty PS2 came to an end, after 13 years of production (2000 - 2013), and even though PS3 launched halfway through PS2's run (2006).

@parallaxscroll Sony and Microsoft can say what they want, but I think they both have plans to start having games stop supporting the original XB1/PS4 at some point but continue with the upgraded versions. In 4-5 years, at the latest, I think we will start to see exceptions being made for certain games and those exceptions will continue to expand to the point where no games support the older model. By then, the next hardware versions will be released and they could be called XB2/PS5 but the XB1.5/PS4.5 will still be compatible. It will basically turn into the mobile hardware releases but a bit slower and more impactful.

@DefHalan

That is a reasonable expectation - Exceptions could be made for both Neo and Scorpio where new games only run on the newer iterations. In that sense, PS5/XB2 could be out as early as 2019.

@parallaxscroll You didn't really answer my question, what do they benefit from restarting their install base? The answer is nothing. By only doing incremental upgrades, they get a much more stable revenue stream instead of high fluctuations. An added benefit is for developers, they can be sure their work on a title stays relevant, even if hardware gets upgraded. And customers can start upgrading when it suits their wallet. Some may buy every third, some might buy all iterations. Win-win for everybody. Except people that wants console wars.

It isn't like it is unheard of PCs have been doing it forever and smartphones are even better at it.

And even if Sony hasn't caught on to it you can be sure MS has, especially in light of all their games coming to PC.

I think, for the sake of appearances and "customer loyalty" (which honestly I have always believed is a crock, especially coming from large enterprises), that Microsoft and Sony will stick to their words that ALL games will be playable on both versions of the systems... for a time. A year, maybe two.

But like @DefHalan said, we'll start to see, maybe one game at a time, that they start to go back on that "promise," and we'll have a sort-of Destiny situation: Sure, the game may launch for both versions of the console, but there will be big limitations and, eventually, no support in DLC or patches for the older console. So, theoretically, they didn't LIE when they said the game would be playable on both, but they're also sure as heck not encouraging people to stay with the old system.

Like I said - respect to both companies and both are crucial to our hobby, but I wouldn't put it beyond any of them (including Nintendo) to go that route. It just stinks that if they really want to release new consoles because they figured out their currents ones aren't capable of 4k and VR, that they don't just come out and say, "Look: these boxes just aren't as future-proof as we thought, so we want to move onto something new that we know can stick around with these new technologies."

^^ agreed. I suspect they'll support the older versions through 2017/18, and we'll start seeing Neo/Scorpio exclusives by 2019, with that being the norm by 2020 imo. Might even happen sooner than that

And we all thought it was a fake...

@GrailUK Well it is, that video clearly says 2016

This

To be fair they got one of the technical aspects of it completely wrong. And wrong in the same way a lot of people who liked the hybrid idea always got it wrong. A hybrid was always going to be a portable that plugged in to your TV or docked. It wasn't going to stream to the TV. And short of Nintendo porting their games Wii U BC was never really on the table.

The fact that this current rumour addresses those two points? Along with the fact that it's not being shot down by anyone. That's what makes it believable. That video seriously lacked that sort of credibility. It's just a shame that good artists and people who understand the tech rarely overlap. Though to be fair if I had made a render of the NX at that point? It would have been exactly the same thing... minus the "Wii U mode" at the end.

@skywake @DefHalan The message of 'play everywhere' is very strong. I can't see how Ninty can mess it up.

I can play everywhere. I have a smart phone. I also have a 3DS.

@Gamermole

I'm not sure we will see a physical home console button anymore. They're going to try and make this look and feel like a proper tablet to possibly interest people from that angle too. I expect the thing will therefore be virtually bezelless. Most likely the home button will be a virtual button on the screen that you can access by swiping up from the bottom like you would on your phone etc.

@DefHalan Then you are alright then. As you were.

@dtjive Why would "tablet owners" be interested in this? They already have a tablet that plays free games, and if they want to play quality games, they would've gotten a dedicated gaming system already.

Nintendo can never compete with tablets unless they go for the Android route. Tablets and smartphones are used for so much more than gaming. They simply can't compete with Android or iOS, it isn't enough that it has exclusive games.

And it is not only having the right apps, it is about having a choice that suits me. For example, I listen to podcasts. Would a Nintendo tablet have that? If they do, will they have one that feels better than my current?

How about Media players? Remote controls? Bank apps? Mail, calendar, web? Netflix, YouTube, HBO Nordic, viaplay?

No, I hope they won't even try to appeal to tablet owners, it would be a losing battle. Apple and Google are even harder to topple than the power twins.

I honestly don't think the NX is at all targeting the "tablet market". I think it's more of a 3DS successor that happens to also be a Wii U successor. Those are the two main markets its going after. And if it's cheap enough it's also going to be an attractive second system for people who have a PC/PS4/XBOne.

You buy a tablet for Netflix, Youtube, Facebook, Spotify and so on. You buy it for region specific catch-up TV services. You buy it for high-end remote apps for big and sometimes not so big electronic devices. Yes you also play silly little free to play games and the NX will do a better job of that. But for most of the things you get a tablet for? I don't think a Nintendo console is going to do those things as well. And they shouldn't try to.

edit: what @Therad said

"You buy a tablet for Netflix, Youtube, Spotify, Facebook and so on"

Don't consoles already offer Netflix, Spotify and Youtube? Don't they also already offer some basic ability to do internet searches and browse the internet too? So why wouldn't an NX handheld device offer these too? In fact, the form factor of the NX would make these applications so much better because (when the controllers are detached) it would be a touchscreen tablet!

The argument you presented makes no sense. Prior consoles already offer those sort of apps. The NX will too but will likely use its touchscreen abilities in being able to use them hence making it have some sort of tablet-functionality.

Does that mean I think (or Nintendo for that matter) that they can topple Android or Apple? No but for some consumers the fact that they could consider this device both as having the ability to offer tablet-like browsing/viewing and some basic apps, but also as a dedicated console might interest them. It will offer consumers another possible reason to purchase that might give some the little push they are looking for.

In fact, I use my tablet for nothing else but chrome and a few basic apps (facebook, netflix). An NX tablet would be perfect for my needs because I could ditch my other one and have one device that caters to both my needs.

There's a complete difference between "targeting" the tablet market and having the ability to "function as a tablet".

Well consider how many bits of technology people need nowadays. Most people would probably have a mobile phone, laptop (for work/school), tablet/chromebook (for light browsing/some apps), xbox/ps4 (for major 3rd party titles). It's plausible to think that a lot of people have all of these at home and perhaps consider spending another $200-300 on another device is too far. Maybe they simply can't afford it. Maybe, their parents refuse to spend more money on more tech gear for them. Maybe, they can afford it but feel a fifth tech product is too much given how much they might use it for.

However, if an NX can cater to both the aspect of being a games console and also have some basic tablet functionality then perhaps people might give it more of a go as they could see this as one device that caters to two of their needs thus making it affordable to some, or just more of a worthwhile purchase to others.

And again that isn't to say that the NX can compete with Samsung/Apple, nor is the intention to. But I believe there is a market there for Nintendo to target. Parents who don't want to keep shelling out hundreds of dollars on various tech for their kids. Instead they can just get them this as it offers both. Those who would ideally like both but can't afford both. Those who are interested in a games console (or second games console) but as a console alone they don't think they would get much use out of so never invest.

By offering the NX to have some tablet functionality, they might convince some consumers who are interested in Nintendo games but nonetheless have skipped out on prior generations (for whatever reason) to return or take another chance. People can consider it as an option that gives the ability to play games but also doubles up as a tablet too. The idea of having a games console or a tablet would no longer be an either/or for some consumers. They have the option to have both and that can't be a bad thing.

Edit: just to add, I speak from personal and vicarious experience of some of those above issues. For me, and many of my friends, a gaming console is just a little bit of a luxury item that comes after the need for a mobile, tablet and laptop. In part it then becomes a case of needing to part with an additional £200-250 to buy a console, but also a question of how much time I could realistically put into given my lifestyle. Of course a handheld that doubles up as a tablet suddenly makes the choice much simpler. I can either play games on my commute or surf the net. Same at home when I get an hour or two to put my feet up. And do I know I'm going to get a lot out of my NX now? Hell yes, because I use my tablet everyday- so even without the games aspect and how much of that I'd play, I know I'm getting good use out it for my money.