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Topic: So NX Is A Home Console Afterall?

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dumedum

TwilightAngel wrote:

dumedum wrote:

Its not just a mistake of announcing NX. I meant the NX itself is a mistake. They need to focus on the Wii U strongly for the next few years. The Direct should have reflected that.

They should focus on a sinking ship? Why?

Because it's not a sinking ship. It's a ship that had rough times, that went through troubled water, and some other ships passed it, but it's a ship that shows some extraordinary success and resolve... it's still leading in Japan, its attach rate is magnificent, it has new hits like Splatoon, and a booming and quite amazing amiibo business. It's also profitable. It's not sinking at all, it's doing just fine.

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rallydefault

dumedum wrote:

TwilightAngel wrote:

dumedum wrote:

Its not just a mistake of announcing NX. I meant the NX itself is a mistake. They need to focus on the Wii U strongly for the next few years. The Direct should have reflected that.

They should focus on a sinking ship? Why?

Because it's not a sinking ship. It's a ship that had rough times, that went through troubled water, and some other ships passed it, but it's a ship that shows some extraordinary success and resolve... it's still leading in Japan, its attach rate is magnificent, it has new hits like Splatoon, and a booming and quite amazing amiibo business. It's also profitable. It's not sinking at all, it's doing just fine.

No. The Wii U, AKA "the sinking ship," is not doing "just fine." Please. Listen to reason.

I love my Wii U, as well. I love the games on it. I love it to death, as do you, I can tell. And that's great. But it just didn't take off. And as much as you and a few others around here obstinately refuse to accept time and time again, the video game market IS a COMPETITIVE environment.

And the Wii U fell face-first onto a rock right out of the gate.

It's behind - WAY behind the other competitors, and even if they are turning a profit on the hardware (that they sure aren't selling a whole lot of), the employees and marketing that go into the "sinking ship" behind the scenes are being wasted on a lame horse that may "just be getting by," but isn't doing much else. Nintendo managed to post its first profit in a long time last quarter, but the word "managed" needs to be stressed - as in, just barely. You can't tell me that Nintendo's board is fine with "just barely" posting profits. The Wii U didn't pan out, it isn't contributing much, and Nintendo's investors and most people aside from us want a new piece of hardware.

rallydefault

jump

They have posted a profit the last few quarters, I think you mean for the first year on year rather than quarter.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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iKhan

@Ralek85:
You are assuming their system is only going to be as powerful as the PS4/XB1. If that's the case, releasing it at any point would be a huge mistake. They install base would be so far behind and their momentum so low, that they STILL wouldn't get third party support.

2017 is a 5 year life cycle just like the SNES, Gamecube, and N64. If Sony and Microsoft also follow 5 year lifecycles, their next systems would be out in 2018. So as long as Nintendo is competitive with the NEXT generation of consoles, they should be fine with that.

The Wii U has been making money for a while now. It's just not successful in a "units sold" perspective.

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Cia

@rallydefault
"It's behind - WAY behind the other competitors."
It would be more accurate to say that it's way behind PS4. Currently, Wii U has sold 9.7 m, with it's closest rival Xbox one dragging at 12.6 m. The gap between 'em ain't that large I think- at least not yet.

Cia

Ralek85

@arronishere: The NDS did succeed because of dual-screen?

As for the Gamecube, well aside from the fact, that it was not a DVD player, it's ridiculous to argue it had "3rd party multiplatform support and big name exclusives" when it was competing against the PS2, against which it needs to be compared then. Everyone, and their mom, and her best friend were making games for the PS2 - and owned one. It does not matter if were are talking about an onslaught of niche Japanese RPGs or big budget western games. PS2 was Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Grand Theft Auto, Gran Turismo, Kindgom Hearts, Dragon Quest and dozens of other huge selling franchise ... were most definitely not on the GC, and most of them were not 1st party either.
The 3rd party support was amazing compared to the WiiU, but crap compared to the PS2, so the argument about the power of a Nintendo console + 3rd party is still neither proven nor disproven either way. But yeah, it was technically the most beefy system out there, not that I can recall Nintendo ever making any big fuss about that, or advertisment, but that could just be my memory ^^

As for your last argument, I would simply say, that the Wii was a singular home console product, it did not happen for them before, and it did not happen for them since. What you are suggesting, is exactly what they have been doing: chasing this moment ever since.
What most people don't seem to get, is how that moment came about, and what changed since. The simple truth is, that the Wii's success is due to games like those:
Wii Fit 2007 22.67 Million
Wii Fit Plus 2009 20.86 Million
Wii Play 2006 28.02 Million
Wii Sports 2006 81.99 Million
Wii Sports Resort 2009 31.89 Million

Some of the biggest sellers on the system. Those were games sold to a bunch of people who did not necessarily previously buy consoles ..... and, this is THE point, don't necessarily do so since that day. One part stuck to Wii, and still plays Wii Fit or Just Dance on that system, since nothing the Wiiu or anyone else does, really makes it worthwhile to upgrade for them (if they even care anymore), the other part went on to play similar games on smartphones, and tablets, and these days on phablets, as well as on any other device.

So .... these people are NOT going to come back, maybe they will buy some Nintendo stuff once they have mobil games out, quite possibly, but that is it. Your advice to chase the "magical Wii moment" of a money printing console, which everyone buys, no matter if a gamer or not, is foolish, since that market is saturated entirely. It's more saturated than the "hardcore" market ...
Basically you are saying Nintendo should make another WiiU, and take another shoot in the dark, hoping to by chance hit the magical unicorn rumored to be still running around out there. Unfortunately, the unicorn went home a long time ago, sitting comfortable before it's TV, with a tablet and an old dusty WiiU under the TV. Nintendo can shoot at the darkness all it wants ... well, until they run out of bullets anyways.

Nintendo failed to seize the parts of the market, that are now seized by Sony and Microsoft. I don't know if there is a way out of it, maybe it should aim to be another "accesible secondary devices", but honestly, what is the WiiU, if not that ... one can only hope it was really just bad advertisement/ PR and the coinciding rise of tablets that screwed the WiiU, as Miyamoto suggested. It's going to be an uphill battle for them no matter what, luckily the Wii and NDS made enough cash for them to take more than two shots at this particular problem!

@iKhan I don't know if the WiiU is making money, that is actually hard to judge. They are not selling it at a loss, and they probably recouped their development costs, but looking at Nintendo having run at a deficit for years after the WiiU launched, if I recall correctly, I doubt anything short of failure is an approriate term. The worst damage of course, is not the financial one and the devaluation of stock, but the loss of image and presence in the consumer market.
Nintendo said repeatedly, that they have no interest in entering the "technological arms race", so frankly, I have no idea if they will make a system more powerful than the current gen of Microsoft and Sony consoles. The PS3 lasted 7 years, and the PS4 will last as long as it possibly can. In fact, we are seeing a profound shift, with the Ps3 still seeing support to this day, so in some terms it will maybe even last 10 years or so, although this year we will see that not next to everything sees a parallel last-gen-current-gen release thingy happening unlike 2014
If they are planning to compete against a Ps5, which might not be around until like 2020, they would have to launch one beefy system I'd say. I think they won't do that, but rather plan for another console after a couple of years, but yeah, that is anyone's guess. More importantly though, they should aim to make it easy to work on and adapt a architecture similar to the other two.

Your point about the SNES, N64 and GC lifetime is well taken, but it's also true, that each of those consoles was a worst performer for them respectively. SNES lost like 12 Mio sales vs the NES, N64 lost 16 Mio sales vs the SNES, and GC lost like 12 Mio sales vs the N64, so there were increasingly good arguments for keeping the cycle short. The WiiU is actually looking more like a N64 in terms of sales for now.
Anyways, there are other factors in play here, than what they have done in the past quarter century. Circumanstances certainly changed quite a bit since then.
To me, the NX still seems like a panic reaction of a kind, and not like a long planned "it was all part of the plan" once-a-decade platform transition. That is just my impression though. On the other hand, if they had planned all along to launch a new console mid-cycle (vis a vis their two competitors), than this was simply a pretty bad plan ^^

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rallydefault

@Cia: If you don't count 2 million as a "large" gap, then maybe not. But you're also not taking into account the Wii U had a full extra year... and they are still 2 million behind Xbox One. Ouch. Not good.

@arronishere
Yea, that's what I meant.

rallydefault

Sean_Aaron

Given the NX will likely be a bit above 3DS in power I don't think dev times need to be that long, besides they'll have the entire Android 3rd party library at launch and in the future to keep the system flush with software that will appeal to their target market. I also rather doubt you'll have any kind of video out port on the device itself; more likely a module that video gets streamed to using something high-density like WiFi - it might even support AirPlay and work with devices like AppleTV to appeal to a broader range of consumers.

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kyuubikid213

If the rumors are to be believed, I think it'll be a portable/handheld console.

I mean, what have the rumors said so far...?

  • July 2016 launch
  • $150 price point

And with what we actually know with confirmation from Nintendo...?

  • Dedicated Game Platform
  • DeNA deal

I bring up the rumored release because while Nintendo's home consoles typically launch in Fall/Winter (for NA and JP), their handhelds have launched more often around Spring/Summer with the 3DS launching in March. A July release would be just fine for a portable console.
On top of that, by 2016, the 3DS will be 5 years old and the New 3DS revision will have had its time (like the DSi before it and the GBA SP before THAT).

If it is a home console, I'll be surprised.

Also, to everyone holding on to the "console" bit that Reggie said to give the home console argument some legs, you know they're called portable/handheld consoles, too, right? Not saying there's absolutely no way it'll be a home console, just saying the word "console" doesn't necessarily mean it'll be one.

Edited on by kyuubikid213

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WebHead

If NX is a console, sounds like it'll be to Wii U what Wii was to GameCube. Repackaged, a bit more powerful with some new gimmick. I can see this. Yes it wouldn't be competing with ps4 and xbone but Nintendo doesn't care. They're a different market now. Their own niche.

WebHead

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JLPick

I know fans like backing up the Wii U, but as a business point of view, the system is a headache for them, and they probably would want to just move past it. I like the system, but it's lacking so much and I don't feel that it'll ever pick up enough grace to keep it going for a few more years. I think, after the E3 showing, they're just making enough games to keep people happy with it, so we know that we didn't just invest of all the money into it to be left down. This kind of stuff didn't bother me...I have a dreamcast, and that ended fast, but I still play and enjoy it, so why should people be disappointed in the Wii U...if you'll find yourselves enjoying it 10 years or so down the road, then we've got our money's worth out of it...the only thing that I see happening, is the screen dying on the controller, and the system won't work after that, but that's yet to be seen. I know they're not making the big budget games, but, do you really blame them, when that game could flop or not give them the money that they'd be hoping for? If their next system does well, and gets a stronger fan base and install base, I could see the bigger games coming and a better E-Shop line up of games too, which could mean more N64 titles, and what they announced for the first year in the Wii U's life...gamecube games could finally come. They just need to make a normal controller for gamers to come back to their love. I hate to say this, as I love nintendo and have been a fan of theirs since Atari and their Cassette Tape Music labels...this next system will make or break them.

JLPick

6ch6ris6

i just hope we will get a new handheld from nintendo. that would get 3rd party support. a new nintendo console propabably not if it isnt on pair with xboxone and ps4

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WebHead

Whatever the gimmick is, be it handheld or portable, I hope it's simple and practical.

WebHead

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rallydefault

@JLPick: Oh yea. I mean, if this rumor turns out to be true, and we have a new "console" on our hands around this time next year, I wouldn't be upset with my Wii U purchase at all. I got TONS of gaming out of this puppy - I put more hours into Mario Kart 8 than any game in recent memory (probably have to go back to Ocarina or FF Tactics...or World of Warcraft lol). My friends and I had a blast with the party games from time to time, and the Windwaker remake finally gave me a chance to beat the only Zelda game I never gave its proper due. This system really did have a ton of games on it for anybody willing to look past the garbage the internet loved to spout about it.

rallydefault

erv

rallydefault wrote:

@JLPick: Oh yea. I mean, if this rumor turns out to be true, and we have a new "console" on our hands around this time next year, I wouldn't be upset with my Wii U purchase at all. I got TONS of gaming out of this puppy - I put more hours into Mario Kart 8 than any game in recent memory (probably have to go back to Ocarina or FF Tactics...or World of Warcraft lol). My friends and I had a blast with the party games from time to time, and the Windwaker remake finally gave me a chance to beat the only Zelda game I never gave its proper due. This system really did have a ton of games on it for anybody willing to look past the garbage the internet loved to spout about it.

This. The wii U reputation being down is nothing but over repeated internet sentiment based on other peoples nothing. The console is great, the library is great, there's lots of fun and there was lots of fun from day 1.

I understand the business sentiment is down, but I don't care for my enjoyment, only for figuring out what might be next and when. All good times for me as a nintendo fan - as a gamer, the wii U is definitely great. It'll be replaced sooner because of that business element to it, but as a gamer, the wii U has been consistently awesome.

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iKhan

What if NX really turns out to be a 3rd pillar micro console like PSTV?

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kyuubikid213

iKhan wrote:

What if NX really turns out to be a 3rd pillar micro console like PSTV?

This is a very logical outcome. I'd probably stick with my Wii U and 3DS if that were the case, though (I know nothing about PSTV).

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AceDefective

iKhan wrote:

What if NX really turns out to be a 3rd pillar micro console like PSTV?

This, so much.
Everyone is ignoring NX was mentioned as a "third pillar", namely because they (understandably and realistically) expect it replace something.
But if it home console, why would Nintendo mention continued 3DS support? Would that be a given then?
There's definitely more to this.

Edited on by AceDefective

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Ralek85

@iKhan: My first question would be, what this would do for them? The PSV is the niche version of a niche console, and it's selling accordingly, which kinda leads to my second question, how are they going to sell a third console to people?
The WiiU would still be mess, they would have to support a forth platform with software besides the WiiU, 3DS and mobil, and potentially, they would compete against themselves. I also fail to see how this would inspire any revival of third party support.

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Grumblevolcano

kyuubikid213 wrote:

iKhan wrote:

What if NX really turns out to be a 3rd pillar micro console like PSTV?

This is a very logical outcome. I'd probably stick with my Wii U and 3DS if that were the case, though (I know nothing about PSTV).

PSTV is basically a way to play Vita games on the big screen so if applied to Nintendo it would be a way to play 3DS games on the big screen.

Grumblevolcano

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