Topic: So NX Is A Home Console Afterall?

Well the general internet conclusion from the digital event because of the lack of new heavy-hitting announcements is NX release holiday 2016 so without NX mention, something like @rallydefault's comment would make sense as a general internet conclusion.

Darn tootin'. Honestly, though, yea - without the NX announcement, I can tell you right now that Twitch/Youtubes/Twitters would be awash with people declaring the final year of Nintendo's hardware adventure, marked oh so symbolically by a final Zelda release at the end of 2016.

BUT, they put the lid on that discussion before it could even happen by announcing NX. Good move.

Its not just a mistake of announcing NX. I meant the NX itself is a mistake. They need to focus on the Wii U strongly for the next few years. The Direct should have reflected that.

They should focus on a sinking ship? Why?

I have said this many times elsewhere but here is the short version. They need to make the Wii U look like it was at least worth the investment in order to make the next home console succeed, without building consumer interest in the Wii U the next system will not succeed.

They can do this in other ways. They could have some sort of ambassadors program to appease current owners for example.

Their whole E3 presentation was about a) showing people that they still have a number of great games to look forward to in the next 6-12 months and b) the fact that by and large any development after that would move on to their N(e)X't big thing. The reason being that it proofed to be all but impossible to build consumer interest for the WiiU. The success of the NX is not contingent on that of the WiiU, just as the success of the Wii, was not contingent on that of the Gamecube.
So what they are doing is the right move: Trying to appease their core fanbase and "early adopters", and then moving on from a sunken ship - because that is exactly what the WiiU is, a sunken ship with a bubble of air left for a couple of months and quite a few valueable gems on board.

No, don't you get it, Nintendo needs to make a PC gaming rig and bribe EA and other big publishers so they can get their big games on the system. It's the only way they can survive and people will for sure bin their Xboxes and Playstations and flock to Nintendo if they do this!!!

exactly. You guys are asking Iwata to right a sinking ship. I love the system but ultimately it is a dud. E3 2015 has made it clear that they're moving on.

Honestly, I don't think most of the general public would bat an eyelash if Nintendo releases a new home console holiday of 2016 - most of the public doesn't even know the Wii U exists or what exactly it is lol If Nintendo would market their next home console "correctly" (whatever that means), I bet you most people would go straight from Wii to NX (or whatever it turns out to be), completely and blissfully skipping a console generation.

There would be people like us who bought and loved the Wii U that would be a bit miffed, yea, but I kind of understand that they can't stick with this thing much longer. Pikmin didn't turn it around, Mario Kart didn't turn it around, Mario World didn't turn it around, Bayonetta...didn't even sell, Smash didn't turn it around... and these were all EXCELLENT games. Perhaps even "better" than games that came out on the other two systems at the same time. But nothing worked. And if those games didn't work, the only hope left is Zelda, and that doesn't come until 2016.

It's time to move on. Nintendo should NOT shovel more money into the Wii U - and that's coming from a satisfied Wii U owner.

That's because the assumption that "software sells hardware" that Reggie kept throwing around was partly a fallacy. I mean, software does sell hardware, but when a piece of hardware is completely tanking, it's usually an indication that something else is wrong.

With the Wii U, that "something" was Third Party support, marketing, the Gamepad. The Wii U hit a lower point in 3rd party support than Nintendo has ever seen before. You can say Nintendo is about the first party all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that even the N64, GC, and Wii U had a pretty solid number of 3rd party gems, and some decent multiplats. Nintendo still hasn't re-learned how to market a home console. If you tell everyone that "This console is for families", then you send the message that "This console is ONLY for families". Lastly, the Gamepad is one of the first instances where Nintendo designed hardware before software ideas came into play. The logic for the Gamepad wasn't "This is a revolutionary piece of tech with which the possibilities are endless". It was "This is an important convenience feature in modern society; plus we'll figure out gameplay ideas later.".

Nintendo failed with the Wii U because they didn't correct this stuff. Nintendo has NEVER been good at correcting problems after the fact, because they are very conservative about making big changes (the 3DS is pretty much the only exception I can think of). We have seen from the PS3 and XB1 that Sony and Microsoft are a lot more willing to make drastic changes to bring their systems to success.

@iKhan To play devil's advocate, I'd say that even if Nintendo had corrected those things, minus the 3rd party support as there was no fix to that on Wii U, there's still a pretty good chance the Wii U would have still failed. Just because Sony and Microsoft's drastic changes worked for the PS3 and XB1, doesn't mean it'll work for Nintendo with the Wii U.

This actually has nothing to do with current Wii U owners, this is about increasing all consumer's confidence in Nintendo products.

@Ralek85
I don't think so. If they really are slowing down development and 2016/2017 is really going to be that empty until the NX comes out then we can look forward to a repeat of what the Wii U was. Without increasing consumer confidence in Nintendo products before the NX comes out, why would people buy a NX?

Their advertising is still awful, and they still haven't made a single player experience that does something new with the gamepad. Most of the ideas were extensions of the Wii or DS's functionality. I will give you that the Gamepad problem is tough to fix quickly without dropping it, which comes with its own set of problems.

But they should have aggressively courted 3rd parties, dropped the price, and stopped advertising exclusively to families in their system ads.

Yea, I mean, I'm with you in the fact that Nintendo stands to lose a good chunk of gamers if they end the Wii U on the "wrong note," so to speak. It would be silly to think otherwise. People, including some on this board, could really feel short-changed with their investment and vow to not buy another Nintendo console.

BUT, as Nintendo, with the NX, you'd be hoping for a few things EVEN IF you launch the NX soon and kill off the Wii U early:
A. Hardcore Nintendo fans that will follow you no matter what (includes some of us...just admit it...they could launch the NX tomorrow and I'd buy it, but I'd do the same for Microsoft/Sony, honestly)
B. "Beefing" up the NX slightly beyond PS4/X1 specs AND carrying third-party support to catch attention from other segments (it IS possible to hit the same price point or lower of PS4/X1 if you're going without a gamepad that costs upwards of 100 dollars U.S.)
C. Advertising STRONGLY to catch the Wii people that completely missed the Wii U due to marketing failures, confusion, and just general lack of exposure

And I'll keep saying this: They have a STRONG NX launch title with the next Zelda game coming up holiday 2016, just like the Twilight Princes situation. It would slightly appease the Wii U diehards because they'd still get their Zelda game, and the other self-proclaimed "hardcore gamers" out there would have a REAL reason to look at the NX right away, especially if the Zelda game turns out to be amazing and just can't be ignored. I think they would be foolish to pass that up. Otherwise, how long would the NX be without a "true" Zelda game (not a remake)? And we see how well that went over with Wii U...

@rallydefault
again, supporting the Wii U from now until when the next console is released (probably 2017) isn't to improve Wii u owner confidence. It is to increase confidence in all consumers.

First, they have to slow down development for the WiiU, in fact they have to more or less abandon it. They simply don't have the capacities to support to two (!) HD consoles by themselves, plus additional content for a handheld (maybe even something for the N3DS) and on top of that (at least partial) development of completely new mobil games. It cannot be done. Furthermore, by end of 2016/early 2017 the 3DS family would tradtionally be due for a successor as well, if one looks at the timetable for the gba and nds family at least.

Secondly, I think it's a safe bet that the NX will launch in time for christmas 2016. It's too important a timeframe to miss out on, and delaying until holidays/ christmas 2017 is most definitely not an option, as a 2016 is very ill-timed as it is, with the market already settling into a comfortable pattern for the competition.

Third, Nintendo is already acting as if all of this is a forgone conclusion, since they are doing the logical thing here, as they are pivoting to low-resource projects. That means small games/spin-off (whatever that Animal Crossing Party game is), as well as some third-party developments/ outsourced Nintendo projects (Devils Third/ Starfox but also GIR#FE) and localization of existing content (like e.g. Fatal Frame). All of these put little strain on their main development ressources, which are like 99% sure to be working on NX titles right now, in some form at least. Zelda was also delayed to provide a compelling entry point for the NX - anyone still even disputing that much?

Fourth, it's not empty ... what are you talking about? Currently they are posting the best exclusive line-up out of all the big three for like the next 12 months, and by now no one expects them to offer major 3rd party support anymore, or pretend they could compensate that by quadrupling their own output, which - once more - is not feasible given the ressources they have. What might be empty is the summer (always rather barren though) and fall 2016 timeframe, but that is not new for a console on it's last legs and really ... what is going to happen? People will stop buying the WiiU? Big deal.

Fifth, consumer long-term memory is a myth. Like I said, Nintendo had it's ups and down before. Gamecube was a failure as well, and that is not that long ago, and look at the Wii ... it was the most successful console - more than they could have dreamed off. Nintendo needs to make a compelling case for the NX, not for a WiiU successor! To be frank, that is the very thing they should not be doing, they need to break away from the WiiU. What they need to achieve is not to pi** off existing WiiU owners, to a point, if they'll manage that and come up with a compelling line-up for the NX at launch (window) is anyones guess at this point.

(Personally, I'm ok with the WiiU lifetime catalogue as things stand, Xenoblade and GIR#FE, as well as Fatal Frame, Starfox and so on are going to tide me over just fine!, but yeah .. that is just me)

Last but not least, I would argue that they are pretty much out of options by now, but if anyone has a smart idea what else they could possibly do, I'd love to hear it. The way I see it, it might already be to late to launch a new platform this cycle, but it willl definitely be to late in 2017, because that would mean competing against new hardware iterations of the Ps4 and X1 and with that obviously some form of price cuts if need be. If not 2016, that would mean they'd have to sit out the whole cycle, and we might be looking at like 7 years here, when all is said and done, thus 2020. Therefore 5 (!) more years where they have basically next to no presence in the home console market and being completely cut off from business relations with major 3rd party developers ... it's NOT going to happen, and frankly, it's hardly up for debate Reggie himself said as much during the E3 direct. He all but announced the NX for 2016, so it's not even speculation at this point, more like a very, very educated guess The question in terms of further support is simple math, look at the development teams and studios Nintendo has at it's disposal and then allocate those to two homeconsole, at least one handheld, and a completely new field mobil, add to that the increased duration and cost of HD development and then consider the amount of output per system this leaves you with .. it simply does not compute, the numbers don't add up. If they are going that path, games like Animal Crossing Mario Party mashup is the kind of game were are going to get, or something like Starfox with like 18 months development time at best by an outsourced team. That would risk hurting the very core of their business concept, quality, fun and polished game - without compromise. Again, not going to happen, therefore deductive reasoning leaves us with little room for imagination here, at least in my view.

@rallydefault Pretty much my though process as well. I would be willing to bet money on Zelda being another Twilight Princess, I think the fact they have indirectly admitted to that by saying it's "still going to be on the WiiU", tells us as much as well. Aside from that, we will see a new game from Retro Studois, and some internal teams that have not released anything big in some time. Adding to this a hopefully competitive system and ecosystem (Club Nintend replacement, cross-buy and stuff like that, backwards-compability etc.) at a fair price, I would NOT count them out. One thing I still disagree on is that whole notion of long-term consumer memory. If something compelling and shiny and new comes along, people care very little about what might have gone wrong last time around. Nintendo should not risk running afoul of current customers, no more than need be, but they are clever aboit it, by going for localizations, outsourced developlemts, little spin-off games, indies, VC and "games as service" (more SSB, Splatoon, and MK8 DLC is all but guaranteed). So, I doubt that is going to be an issue, esp. since mostly they sold to their core fanbase, which will not likely abandon them .. I mean by now the WiiU has a good catalogue and in 12 months it will be even better, so what's really the issue here? The one thing that could hurt them is bad communication. They have to - for once - be clever about how they are going to communicate that transition and what kind of PR they are going to run for the NX! That is a sticking point, but frankly, nothing anyone can do here but have faith

Dude, I couldn't agree more.

This is arguable, we don't know enough info. For example Devil's Third in the US seems to have just disappeared, apparently Fatal Frame is eshop exclusive, etc.