Topic: No Disk Drive?

Correction.

I'm saying that the reasons you've given for keeping used sales is the same reasoning people use to defend piracy. And that the arguments put forward against piracy apply equally to the used game market. If a pirated game is a "lost sale" then a used sale is surely even more-so. Particularly given that in the stores I frequent the used prices are only 10-20% less than the prices of new copies. And still more than new games on PC. The very definition of a lost sale.

The reason I'm labelling you as a pirate is because it annoys the hell out of you. And the only reason it does is because it's an argument that adds up. Even if you refuse to admit it if you were being honest about it you'd agree. And again, I don't have an issue with used sales in general. I don't have an issue with physical media either. There are situations where that's the only option available. The problem I have is the idea that you'd choose not to give a publisher/dev your money because you "don't want to support" them but still want to play the game. Even more if you're actually paying for it. If that's the case then what you're doing is no better than piracy. And it's with that that I'm arguing that overall we'd all be better off it that market went away.

And calling me a lazy, immature, controlling, egotistical maniac? That's how you've lost the argument. Because I never resorted to that sort of name calling. Other than the "equivalent to piracy" bit. Which was more of a creative flair of point proving than an actual insult. Not to mention that before you came in to defend this position it was said that I was stoning poor people to death and other such hyperbolic nonsense. So I can take it

This is pure BS. Comparing someone who pirate a game for profit (which is only one reason people pirate btw) with one that buys used games is dishonest.

And micro-transactions, day 1 dlc, companies unwilling to take risks, etc has nothing at all to do with piracy, let alone used game sales. They all exists because the publishers wants to make more money. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not equating the sale of pirated material with the purchase of used games at all. I'm equating the purchasing of pirated material with the purchasing of used games. And only in cases where the game is still available new. In particular when the rationale for not buying new is literally an attempt to "not give them money".

With that said I think there's a strong case for removing stuff like region locking. Also with making sure that prices are more consistent across regions, opening up the market in that way. So I'm not anti-consumer by any means. I'm just stating what I think is the obvious.

It is all linked. Trying to stop people from trading in their games is the main aim of a lot of these things. And why does that help them make more money? Well because if they don't trade the game in then people are forced to buy the game new. Some publishers have even explicitly said that this is the main reason behind it.

The day 1 patches, registrations, accounts and dlc and transactions are a solution to a problem you are not aware of, that’s all. Of course it’s there to make money.

Because they sure ain’t making it by selling a game…

Is this really so hard to understand? I like the concept of no disk drive, digital only, single channel retail. It reinvigorated the entire pc game market, and will do the same for console games. Now if downloads are slow where you are it’s a bummer, but never impossible. Meanwhile, though, the used market is something I hoped had long gone but sadly hasn’t.

Watch the game world be off for the better five years after it disappears.

The idea of a modern console using cartridges might actually be a good idea.
1. Since you only have to make as much space as you need, games could become cheaper.
2. The cartridge model would give the developer more control over the finished product.
3. Anything optical discs used to do best, Flash memory could do more efficiently now.
4. The ability to download DLC, saves, and maybe even limited User Interface could theoretically be stored on the cartridge.

Return of the cartridge based console?

I know the likelihood of this is slim but with the NX most likely not coming with a disc drive, what if Nintendo went back to cartridge based games?

One thing that sparked my interest would be if Nintendo went ahead with a rerease of a SNES hardware spec system. Limiting the horse power but providing open source game development similar to Steam.

i just love the idea of limiting hardware specs for developers and getting back to a golden age of graphics and gameplay of the 90s

One can dream

@MrMario02 exactly!

@OneBagTravel actually, the console has a slot for a cartridges. I'm not sure if it's for memory cards or cartridges, but knowing nintendo's skittish attitude toward online, I think that it's a cartridge-based system.

@skywake: One issue though....and yes it took this long for me to realize.

Even if they go digital only, it still would be even more costly to build a powerful system if that were the case. I'd wager that if Nintendo had a powerful console that just had a controller with no motions and nothing fancy, its not going to make them get any profit so they might as well include hard drives.

And even then, say they don't do hard drives, how someone from Asia can get their products? How Asia works with Nintendo right now is getting US region games only as of now. Now granted, compared to US and UK, Asia is the least targeted but if Nintendo wants to go global, they might as well use physical copies. Credit cards are another issue. You can't just use your own credit card because Nintendo only accepts ones from US, UK and JPN. So if getting virtual funds requires you to buy it online and get it shipped if its something you can easily reveal through online and yet they won't do it, then wouldn't it make more sense to ship physical copies instead?

@Artwark:
For a start digital distribution is not more expensive at all even with the hardware itself. On a modern piece of hardware storage is nowhere near the highest cost set of components. Both for HDDs and Optical drives. There's a teardown of the price of the PS4 where they estimate that 50% of the cost of the PS4 goes into CPU/GPU/RAM. Only 10% went into the HDD, less than that into the optical drive. So the idea that going digital or not would at all influence the sort of spec it would be really doesn't add up. Especially given that any costs they would wear would be more than compensated by cheaper distribution.

As for the distribution of goods into other regions? Surely digital has quite a few advantages. I wouldn't assume that the way things are wouldn't change if this was their goal. Otherwise it would come back to bite them. But as someone who is in one of the more screwed over regions? There are still clear advantages to digital distribution if the kinks can be ironed out. I don't think any of my games were actually printed for Australia, some are even in European boxes with an Australian rating sticker on the front. Some games weren't released in high numbers so you had to import anyways, some just straight up never came here. With digital distribution? There's no risk. They don't have to worry about distribution. We're far more likely to see the game appear in our own currency and not have to go through shipping.

I expect a new appletv to be announced today that is going to be digital only, like the app store is now. It's gonna nibble some of the gaming market away for sure. Once that happens, the mindset of a lot of people will gradually change and lean towards digital distribution.

That doesn't mean the downsides for many as listed in this thread are going to be gone, but acceptance towards the concept will increase once other products start doing the same.

@skywake: even then, the fact that you'd have to use a hard drive of your own proves that the storage can be very annoying. Sure for the 3DS, its flexible but for Wii U? And while I haven't gotten one yet, I can tell that getting more space after getting a LOT of them filled up is going to be even harder. In which case, more ports have to be made in favor of that. I don't know if consoles can handle more than one hard drive but I'm positive that such overload is stretching it.

Whether you release the game digitally or not, there's no difference except the companies deciding the cost of the games rather than retailers. Retailers are more forgiving because you always get discounts from them.

Also, let's not forget warranty issues when going digital. Suppose the game that you buy digitally doesn't work properly, what needs to be done here? Atleast in physical, you can always buy a replacement and play that instead but digitally, its likely to be impossible.

The ability to sell/ trade your games will vanish because selling your games digitally isn't something that Nintendo would allow you to do. While its a minor thing that has to be adjusted, it is a big thing in the long run. Suppose you want to sell your games when you feel you can make a lot of money on them, how can you do that digitally unless you can claim that you can get these games but they can't get them because doing so would mean you are letting the buyer access your ID something which you seriously won't think of. Unless old games are ported or remastered, the only way to get them is to buy them used since getting new is too damm expensive. Also, if you are to buy games digitally, doesn't that mean you would have to rely on the hard drive for the smooth FPS and gameplay? That can be a disaster if only certain hard drives are to be bought for consoles only.

While we're at it, let's make reviews more digital instead of them being physical. Let's make virtual money as means of paying your taxes, shopping etc. Heck, let's even make the whole world as digital so that you won't see currency at all in one bit but you will just use cards that have limits on how much of virtual money you can hold for each one. Its ridiculous to think of it like that and obviously, we won't see that coming anytime soon.

It does make me wonder how Famitsu sticks around and yet Nintendo Power isn't.

Consoles can handle more than 1 HDD, they are simplified computers. And rest assure, if they would go digital only, the console will have a big HDD in it from start. Would be suicide otherwise.

Always get discounts?

Anyways, you would still have a middleman, in this case the e-shop. Nothing stops Nintendo from doing their own discounts and sales in the same vein as steam. And if you really are cost-sensitive, you shouldn't play console games at all.

In the case of gaming, it is most likely a programming fault if it doesn't work. So buying another unit will not solve the issue. You should be able to get a refund in this case. It is probably easier to get a refund if it is downloaded, since for some reason they think you are a stinking pirate if you go back with an opened game case. And if you cannot get a refund, then it is a legal issue and your laws should be changed.

This is is a real issue.

Hard drives are faster than disc-drives. Especially if it is a SSD.

Reviews are already quite digital? I am not even sure I can get nintendo reviews in paper format where I live.

Ps. Currencies are already digital. When they say "print more money" they actually mean they increase the money pool, they do not actually print more money. Ds.

Maybe they patented the Apple TV before Apple can.

@Artwark:
Pretty much what @Therad said. But to make a quick response given it was me you were replying to

• Mass storage is not an issue, it's not going to be a struggle. They would just build it in as they already do
• digital doesn't mean one retailer, buying codes is a thing. I believe it's already a thing for the eShop in Japan
• with digital there are less people in the chain trying to make a buck. Thus lower prices.
• I don't want to bring it up again but used sales? Like it or not, you do pay for that convenience
• returns are a thing for digital products. And if a store isn't offering it? They should. A lot of countries require it
• Speed? Blu-Ray = ~30-40MB/s < HDDs = ~60-80MB/s < SSDs = 400MB/s+. Also storage doesn't really impact "FPS"
• The whole world being digital? umm... hate to break it to you, the whole world kinda is digital

There are games like Dream Team which have some bugs that corrupt saves and what not. So if doing that is difficult, then the game itself can't be playable.

@skywake lots of things can't be digital. Reading comics digitally makes less sense than reading them physically as it requires a lot of power consumption in order to read comics digitally so honestly, can you call that convenient?

I want it physical simply because I don't have to download it and take hours to finish it. It could ruin business for stores and stores exist to sell things that are physical.

Its going to be chaos if things go digital only unless the cards are played right which is unlikely.

The negative is power, the positive is having thousands of comics/graphic novels in a tiny tablet that I can take anywhere with ease.

@DefHalan: Another negative is straining the eyes through the phone unlike in books. And another thing to add is many retailers can run out of business.

On phones, or tablets, you can zoom in on images which means less straining. The Marvel Unlimited App actually lets you view the comic 1 panel at a time, rather than a whole page.

@DefHalan: @Tops: I'm not talking about straining as in zooming or being in a well lit area. I'm talking about straining at the screen which can strain eyes a bit after a few hours reading them.

This is a bit of a red herring. How does this relate to games? Games are already played on a screen, if anything things like power consumption are higher when you play off a disk. As I've said in this thread already I still buy CDs because I like the format. However I never actually listen to my music off those CDs. I convert them to mp3s as soon as I get them. I can't really rip my games but still, with games movies and music that distribution method is just a means to the same end.

Now what I'm going to say now is a political point of view. On this topic and quite a few others I'm 100% in favour of just letting the market do its thing. Adapt or die. Yes, digital only gaming would kill businesses that rely on used sales if they don't adapt. But what's the issue with that? Ultimately they are responding to what consumers want. And if we demand less local shops selling digital wares and more internet infrastructure? That's the direction things will move. If the internet infrastructure is inadequate? Then they'll have to work something else otherwise they will lose potential customers.

Trust free market capitalism to always find the most efficient solution to a problem. And more efficient for them means lower prices for us. In some cases that's a frightening proposition for sure but for distribution of games? Not so much.

PC gaming has been effectively digital only for a good decade. The entire mobile space is also digital only and has been every since the iPhone. About half of the music industry is digital, some regions it's quite a bit more and others less. And to top it off Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft already have digital store fronts for both indie and retail games. 20% of the sales of Smash Bros for Wii U were digital. It's not a small part of the market and it's a growing part of the market.

So why would you think they'd do it wrong? They've had plenty of time to work out all of the little details. Retailers have had plenty of warning. We've even got to the point where companies like Nintendo are giving peace offerings to retailers. Merchandise, Amiibos. You think that stuff is just to keep us happy?