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Topic: No Disk Drive?

Posts 101 to 120 of 261

skywake

I don't think the cost would be that much lower. If you remove the optical drive then you have to add a bigger HDD to cover it. And besides, it's not like the optical drive is the most expensive component in there. Looking at the PS4 cost teardown (because the PS4 also has a HDD):

  • Processor: $100
  • Memory: $88
  • HDD: $37
  • Optical Drive AND Wireless: $28
  • Controller: $18
  • Other components and manufacturing: $110

Which is also reflected at retail if you're shopping for those components:

  • Blu-Ray Drive: $70AU
  • 2.5" HDD: $60AU for 500GB

... there are plenty of advantages to going digital, reducing the cost of the console is not one of them

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

skywake

In a nutshell, in order of best to worst:

cost of distribution: #1 digital, #2 optical media, #3 cartridges
cost of the console: no significant difference
performance: #1 digital SSD, #2 cartridges, #3 digital HDD, #4 optical media
noise: #1 digital SSD/cartridges, #2 digital HDD, #3 optical media
wear: #1 digital SSD, #2 cartridges, #3 digital HDD, #4 optical media
cost per GB: #1 optical media, #2 HDD, #3 cartridges, #4 SSD

The thing that's changing? Optical media still wins on all measures to do with cost except for distribution where it loses to digital. As internet connections become faster? Digital distribution opens up to more consumers. Then on the $/GB side of things? Optical media stopped getting bigger, HDDs and flash keep going. Every day optical media is losing that advantage.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

LaserdiscGal

The cartridge comeback is upon us.

LaserdiscGal

3DS Friend Code: 0688-5519-2711 | My Nintendo: pokefraker | Nintendo Network ID: pokefraker

CaviarMeths

skywake wrote:

The thing that's changing? Optical media still wins on all measures to do with cost except for distribution where it loses to digital. As internet connections become faster? Digital distribution opens up to more consumers. Then on the $/GB side of things? Optical media stopped getting bigger, HDDs and flash keep going. Every day optical media is losing that advantage.

Yeah, this is the thing that's going to define the future of storage and media delivery. Optical discs are a dead end. They're not getting any better. A BD 10 years ago is identical to a BD today, and the cost hasn't really changed either. Carts though?

Untitled

This ad is from 2004. We're now paying the same price for 1000x the storage capacity.

Dat 256mb RAM tho.

Edited on by CaviarMeths

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

KingMike

Artwark wrote:

HollywoodHogan wrote:

Artwark wrote:

Considering how hard it is to pirate cartridges, this would be the best thing Nintendo can do if they make carts store just as much memory as Discs.

I can't think of one single cartridge based console that has NOT had its games be easily pirated.

what about the virtual boy? You can argue that its a failure but it has quality games in it and one of which is Wario Land....which I would love to have on the 3DS even if its red and black.

Going off topic on your own point.
I'm doubting the lack of Virtual Boy piracy has to do with security measures and more with it just not being popular enough to have a market for the system.
(then again, Famicom pirates will bootleg literally anything. Name the crappiest game you can think of and it's probably still been pirated. I guess maybe the difference is that once they have a setup to ripoff good games, it costs them little to counterfeit the garbage as well.
Not condoning their practices, just responding to this point.)

KingMike

CaviarMeths

^ also the reason that there are still no 3rd party Vita memory cards. I'm sure some 16 year old in China has reverse engineered it by now, but then realized that the market for 128gb+ Vita cards just wasn't big enough to bother.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

skywake

CaviarMeths wrote:

Yeah, this is the thing that's going to define the future of storage and media delivery. Optical discs are a dead end. They're not getting any better. A BD 10 years ago is identical to a BD today, and the cost hasn't really changed either. Carts though?

I think part of it also has to do with game sizes. There's a wikipedia list of games that spanned muliple disks and you can see the change. On the Playstation there were a lot of games that spanned multiple disks, the Final Fantasy games in particular. And not just two but 3 or 4 and in one case 5. Go to the PS2 and the disks are quite a bit bigger, far less games spanning multiple disks. None more than 2 disks. Then there's the PS3 where there are none. Other than collections.

At this point even the biggest games like GTA V can fit on one disk. So the fact that flash is getting to the point where it could be affordable at the same capacity as disks? Means quite a lot more than it did when games were regularly being sold on 4 disks.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Therad

There is a real difference between flash media (which in the end, will be in the cartridges) and discs; loading the game onto the media is much much slower with flash. Basically they need to write byte for byte to the flash, while the disc is pressed.

Therad

Socar

@DiscoGentleman: Yeah. That's what I thought since they make their own consoles, why couldn't they just manufacture the carts themselves? I think that its only the chipset that they would have to buy but other than that, I don't see them avoiding manufacturing carts because otherwise, why even have physical amiibo when you can just use it digitally?

skywake wrote:

CaviarMeths wrote:

Yeah, this is the thing that's going to define the future of storage and media delivery. Optical discs are a dead end. They're not getting any better. A BD 10 years ago is identical to a BD today, and the cost hasn't really changed either. Carts though?

I think part of it also has to do with game sizes. There's a wikipedia list of games that spanned muliple disks and you can see the change. On the Playstation there were a lot of games that spanned multiple disks, the Final Fantasy games in particular. And not just two but 3 or 4 and in one case 5. Go to the PS2 and the disks are quite a bit bigger, far less games spanning multiple disks. None more than 2 disks. Then there's the PS3 where there are none. Other than collections.

At this point even the biggest games like GTA V can fit on one disk. So the fact that flash is getting to the point where it could be affordable at the same capacity as disks? Means quite a lot more than it did when games were regularly being sold on 4 disks.

So they made multiple disks for more of the game and yet couldn't do the same for the carts at the time? Yeah I get that carts were a bit costly at the time but if you're putting more cost of the game by having two discs, wouldn't it be risky to pay more for development?

Edited on by Socar

After so long...I'm back. Don't ask why

Nintendo Network ID: ArtwarkSwark | Twitter:

skywake

Artwark wrote:

So they made multiple disks for more of the game and yet couldn't do the same for the carts at the time? Yeah I get that carts were a bit costly at the time but if you're putting more cost of the game by having two discs, wouldn't it be risky to pay more for development?

Well that's effectively what a larger capacity cartridge is. More chips in the same package. The size limit has a lot to do with how many chips they can afford to cram into it before they can't make any money off it.

For disks there isn't really a limit. Disks are so cheap that they can cram heaps of disks in one box and it doesn't matter. If that wasn't the case then it wouldn't be possible to buy movies for $20 new that contain four disks. But when they pushed the size limits in the N64 era? Some of those games retailed for $120AU. It was kinda crazy.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Shy_Guy

Going all digital wouldn't be a good idea IMO. Not everybody has internet or great internet...

Shy_Guy

Nintendo Network ID: Sparty84 | Twitter:

Bass_X0

@Shy_Guy: Then how do mobile phone and ipad users download their new apps?

Edgey, Gumshoe, Godot, Sissel, Larry, then Mia, Franziska, Maggie, Kay and Lynne.

I'm throwing my money at the screen but nothing happens!

6ch6ris6

@Bass_X0: are you comparing the download of a 5MB app with a download of a 30GB game?

Ryzen 5 2600
2x8GB DDR4 RAM 3000mhz
GTX 1060 6GB

LaserdiscGal

6ch6ris6 wrote:

@Bass_X0: are you comparing the download of a 5MB app with a download of a 30GB game?

I have a few apps that are 10+ GB on my tablet.

LaserdiscGal

3DS Friend Code: 0688-5519-2711 | My Nintendo: pokefraker | Nintendo Network ID: pokefraker

DefHalan

Darth_Vader wrote:

6ch6ris6 wrote:

@Bass_X0: are you comparing the download of a 5MB app with a download of a 30GB game?

I have a few apps that are 10+ GB on my tablet.

Like what? I will probably have to avoid those lol

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

LaserdiscGal

I have MKX running on it, and a modded version of Kotor 1 and 2.

LaserdiscGal

3DS Friend Code: 0688-5519-2711 | My Nintendo: pokefraker | Nintendo Network ID: pokefraker

Jacob717

@Bass_X0: They have internet. And if they don't they go to a place that has Wi-Fi.

Jacob717

DefHalan

@Jason723: Not my tablet. I have to have Wi-Fi to download anything. I am not paying to have a phone connection on a device that is always at home. My 3DS comes with me everywhere, but just waiting for Wi-Fi when I get home to download my games is fine.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

skywake

As someone who has ~8Mbps Australian internets?

3.6GB -> 1 hour
10GB -> 2 hours, 50mins
25GB -> 7 hours

I can deal with that, 7 hours you can start the download in the morning and be playing it in the afternoon. Or start it the night before and have it ready for you the next day. 3 hours is enough time to just do something else for a bit. 1hour is nothing. So even with my crappy connection the size of the game for downloads is rarely the reason why I get a physical copy. In all of these scenarios the act of waiting for the stores to open, waiting in line, getting the game and driving back? Is more of a hassle than the download. However.

60GB: 17hours

GTA 5 I got on disk.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

NinChocolate

Don't forget preload is now a thing and eliminates the waiting around for bigger games

NinChocolate

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