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Topic: If it's a successor to the Wii U- will we have backwards compatibility?

Posts 21 to 40 of 79

DualWielding

I don't think there'll be backwards compatibility, they'll probably change to the x86 architecture making it difficult (they'll be crazy to stand by Power PC at this stage)

PSN: Fertheseeker

Ryu_Niiyama

I don't feel that BC is required however I do like it (even though I keep all of my systems). However average joe gamer offloads all of his games. Unlike the dedicated gamer that will go "Oh hey I'll just pop this cartridge/cd into my old system" joe gamer go hey i want to play this last gen game I didn't buy. That is why last gen remakes are so popular. Personally I hate last gen remakes (I'm cool with older than that because there are usually nice changes that are made or a generation is experiencing it for the first time and wouldn't be able to otherwise) as I feel it is nickle and diming the customer until I remembered that just because I still play my SNES doesn't me some dude held on to his Ps3 when he bought a ps4.

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

DefHalan

Ryu_Niiyama wrote:

I don't feel that BC is required however I do like it (even though I keep all of my systems). However average joe gamer offloads all of his games. Unlike the dedicated gamer that will go "Oh hey I'll just pop this cartridge/cd into my old system" joe gamer go hey i want to play this last gen game I didn't buy. That is why last gen remakes are so popular. Personally I hate last gen remakes (I'm cool with older than that because there are usually nice changes that are made or a generation is experiencing it for the first time and wouldn't be able to otherwise) as I feel it is nickle and diming the customer until I remembered that just because I still play my SNES doesn't me some dude held on to his Ps3 when he bought a ps4.

The reason why PS3/Xbox 360 remakes are happening is that people want to play those old games on their new systems. BC fixes that. With BC instead of new systems being flooded with remakes ports of last gen games, new systems get new games and can still play last gen games that are still coming out or popular. With digital download it becomes even more important. Remakes can still happen but the market would be less flooded, in my opinion.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

Ryu_Niiyama

@DefHalan I think the issue is that since it costs money to make the hardware run old games sony and microsoft would rather that the dev (even if it is them) decide to spend the money to create a hd remake of a few games rather than trying to make 99.9 percent of a library work on a system. I don't think they feel they get a return on investment...and it isnt like the older games are easy to find. (If I get one more person walk into gamestop looking for a Ps2....) I do adore Nintendo for doing so (as it makes their region locking a little bit easier to bear) but at the same time I think that is was the true purpose of VC (until they realized it isn't easy peasy to put old games on the service...).

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

DefHalan

VC is great example of digital BC done right in my opinion. They are able to make your past purchase worth something, while charging for newer features. You can play all your Wii VC games on Wii U without having to pay anything extra, however you can pay a small amount to upgrade it to the Wii U version. The Wii U version lets you use new controllers and new features. It is a great way for Nintendo to make money and keep BC. I also think Streaming could be a solution to that problem, but streaming games isn't anywhere near what it needs to be yet. I am not saying that new consoles need to build the old one inside of it, but there needs to be a way to make your digital purchases not worthless when you replace your gaming console with the new version.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

DefHalan

foobarbaz wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

Backwards compatibility doesn't negatively effect people that hold onto their systems, only those that can't afford to hold onto them.

Backwards compatibility has a cost. The developer has to figure out a way to shoehorn it in there, possibly by literally inserting the old console inside the new one because of an architecture change. Companies aren't going to just give that away for free. I'd rather have the new console sooner and at a cheaper price since I have no problem holding onto my old consoles if I want to play games for them. I'd also rather Nintendo not be forced to develop their next console in such a way where it has to be compatible with the Wii U. I want them to have the freedom to do whatever they want.

I see BC as a dead feature since Microsoft and Sony already set the precedence that you don't need it to be successful.

This generation. You don't need it to be successful this generation.

Steam has been proving that old games can still sell well. The problem of hardware costs is something the manufactures need to figure out. Whether the future of BC be in VC type services or Streaming there should be a way for us to access older games. Letting those older games just disappear into nothingness is not a good approach. There should be a way to play older games, especially digital games, on new systems. It shouldn't be PC's job to keep these old games running, consoles should do it too. Just imagine if Halo or Super Mario Bros couldn't be played in 20 years. There is only a certain number of cartridges of Mario out in the world, once they stop working should we be ok with the game being gone forever? Should it be up to Nintendo to remake the game? We get remakes because people are interested in playing those older games. Steam has shown that old games can still make money. All we need to do is figure out what the future of BC is and how to deliver it on the home console.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

Ryu_Niiyama

@DefHalan To @foobarbaz 's credit it proved to be unwanted by the masses last gen. Both sony and Microsoft dropped BC support quickly. Sony kept ps1 support but they had to kick out ps2 to save money on the EE since it kept the ps3 price high...(and the cell processor). It is a nice idea but since you can't easily go to a game store and buy games from any gen it isn't very useful. Even Nintendo kicked BC last gen. I suppose If every system was BC for the first three years (which is usually how long the previous gen shambles around) but then the prices would be insane.

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

DefHalan

I feel like there is a big disconnection here. I am not talking about hardware prices. including basically the last gen hardware in your current machine is a expensive process that isn't worth it, it doesn't mean BC isn't worth it. Through a VC type system or Streaming it is important for games to last through time. I personally want my digital game collections to have some value in a new generation console but that isn't even the important part of the discussion, the important part is allowing people to play classic games.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

CrazyOtto

If it's not backwards compatible, then I hope at least one of these make up for it:

  • Everything Wii U related becomes much cheaper in price
  • Keep all of the Wii U features up for Wii U owners that don't plan to get the NX right away
  • A port of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U for NX at launch

CrazyOtto

3DS Friend Code: 4511-0465-7453 | Nintendo Network ID: MrSRArter

DefHalan

foobarbaz wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

I feel like there is a big disconnection here. I am not talking about hardware prices. including basically the last gen hardware in your current machine is a expensive process that isn't worth it, it doesn't mean BC isn't worth it. Through a VC type system or Streaming it is important for games to last through time. I personally want my digital game collections to have some value in a new generation console but that isn't even the important part of the discussion, the important part is allowing people to play classic games.

That's different. We're talking about whether or not the NX (if it is a console) should be able to play Wii U games. Cost and hardware development is a very real part of that discussion. Nobody's arguing against the preservation of old games and that will be an issue, especially for games that require a server to run. That's a different topic. That will probably be solved with things like emulators, streaming services, etc. Having a current gen's console being capable of playing the previous gen's games doesn't do anything to preserve them in the long run.

Being able to play old games on current hardware is very important to preserving games. If you just want to ave a conversation on whether the NX will Play Wii u games then I would say it is about 50/50. If it is a portable system then no, if it is a home console then it should. But I thought the conversation was about whether or not the NX (and possible future hardware) should be able to play older games, commonly called Backwards Compatibility, which they should. Not allowing older games to be played by newer hardware is a terrible idea.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

Rumorlife

Having a "WiiU Menu" is almost positively going to happen at least so they can maximize their profits and sell all the Wii/WiiU related stuff off. They'll just tell us it's because they want us to continue to enjoy our WiiU games on the NX.

I'm more curious to see if they bring the Wii along again as well or if they'll just give us Wii VC games that allow you to use the Wii remotes still. Mostly because the Wii controllers are basically WiiU controllers as well. It's not the same as GameCube to Wii imo. The Wii controllers are used way more in the new games than they ever gave GameCube a 2nd go around for (aside from Smash) and plenty of WiiU games call for you to pick up a Wii remote.

Edited on by Rumorlife

Rumorlife

DefHalan

foobarbaz wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

Being able to play old games on current hardware is very important to preserving games

I said the previous gen's games, not "old games" in general. My definition of backward's compatibility, when it comes to consoles, is being able to play the previous gen's games which usually requires different technology (i.e. playing the game directly without the use of an emulator) than something like Nintendo's Virtual Console (using an emulator to play the game). That's what I, and I'm guessing most here, have been talking about.

I believe that line of thinking for Backwards Compatibility is wrong and I feel like I have expressed that.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

iKhan

foobarbaz wrote:

iKhan wrote:

And if the PS4 had PS3 BC, I'd own one right now.

Considering how well the PS4 is selling, I'd say you're very much in the minority. The sales are proof that users don't really care about BC or at least not care about it enough to not buy it which is all that really matters.

I wouldn't say they are proof at all. If the PS4 had BC, it may have sold 25-50% more. The big benefit of BC to sales is for the people who don't own the last gen system. It essentially expands the library multiple times.

For people who have the last gen system, you are right, BC doesn't matter much at all.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

unrandomsam

Tasuki wrote:

I didn't by a PS4 to play Batman Arkham City if I want to play that I would have bought a PS3.

I think that game is a bad example because the PC version of it running maxed out at 60fps has the kind of quality that this gen should have had but has yet failed to. It is far more enjoyable playing it like that. (I tried the Wii U version as well due to it being dirt cheap). If you have already played it that it is one thing.

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

DefHalan

I still think being able to sell your old system to help pay for your new one is important, with BC you are able to do that without losing your investments. If the Xbox One was BC, I would have purchased it by now but without it all my purchased games are gone and can't be used. BC is a good way to keep loyalty in customers, without it there is no difference between PS4 or XbOne for me. Each has exclusives that I would be satisfied with and neither has a large enough library for me to get excited. If BC was a thing then I would already have thousands of games for my XbOne and plenty of games I missed on last gen, playable on my PS4.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

DefHalan

foobarbaz wrote:

DefHalan wrote:

I still think being able to sell your old system to help pay for your new one is important

The Xbox one and PS4 would not be the same price if they were BC. Manufacturers are not going to just eat the cost difference to include that feature especially considering that in these cases it means including another processor. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they would have charged more than what you would make by trading in your old console at a place like gamestop or even possibly selling it on eBay. You might have a point if the previous generation's architecture is the same as the current generation's but that's not the case here nor do I think it will be the case with the Wii U vs NX.

And as I have said before, that is a old way of thinking for BC. If it is just an emulation of the hardware or a streaming service that lets me still use my old purchases, then it doesn't add to the hardware costs. Yes, including old hardware is expensive, but it isn't the only way to deliver BC.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

Ryu_Niiyama

Emulation costs money as well and may still add to the hardware cost as the system has to be powerful enough to handle it. Emulation tends to require hardware to be many times more powerful than the hardware it is trying to emulate.

Don't get me wrong I adore BC but I'd rather Nintendo focus on moving forward as the market as a whole doesn't really care about BC.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

DefHalan

Ryu_Niiyama wrote:

Emulation costs money as well and may still add to the hardware cost as the system has to be powerful enough to handle it. Emulation tends to require hardware to be many times more powerful than the hardware it is trying to emulate.

the PS4 and XbOne are many times more powerful than the PS3 and X360. I understand BC is not important to some people. It is important to me. I don't have much space so I have switched to buying my games digitally and I cannot hold onto many consoles, maybe 3 at most. So for me BC is a very important feature and the lack of it is the reason why I have not gotten a XbOne or PS4. Now I only have a PS3 (which I never play) and Wii U currently, so I still have room for the NX if it doesn't support BC but it is still important to me. If the 3DS wasn't BC then I would have waited a lot longer to buy it as well. To me BC is for the early adopters, so if the feature disappears over time, like last generation, it doesn't effect me but I still want it.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

DefHalan

foobarbaz wrote:

You can't have it all. Everything has a cost.

I am not asking for it to be free. I am not even asking for it to happen right now, but in the future BC needs to be important especially for digital collections.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

PK_Wonder

I have a question regarding the NX and backwards compatibility for tech-savvy people.

Obviously it's in its best interest to ditch the PowerPC architecture and focus on something more advanced. This would mean it isn't able to read Wii and Wii U discs. My question is, however, is it possible to drop physical backwards compatibility, but keep digital backwards compatibility, bringing over literally the entire (or at least most) Wii U eShop (including retail, VC, and indie games)? Basically, keep the current eShop for the new console. Obviously it would have some NX-exclusive content just like the New 3DS does, but it gives the console a huge library day 1, and allows Wii U owners to transfer all of their digital libraries.

Sony and Microsoft didn't do this, and it seems it would've been preferable if it's possible; so is it?

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