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Topic: sony's wand officially named "Sony Move", is the most innovative controller EVER

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LEGEND_MARIOID

61. Posted:

Raylax wrote:

mnementh wrote:

Nintendo can easily sue the rip-off repulsive Sony over this. i'm talking about the unbelievable sub not-nunchuk. If Nintendo choose not to it's only because of PR or concern that Sony might actually come up with something else. Which is unlikely because Sony are complete douche-bags.

I doubt it, I think Sony are smart enough to check up on what patents and copyrights Nintendo might hold before pulling a move like this. I'd assume that everything is technically above-board, even if it is very similar to the Wiimote and Nunchuck.

....else they can just sack their legal team for not spotting the obvious, lol

Edited on by LEGEND_MARIOID

"They say video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock n' roll."

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mnementh

62. Posted:

Raylax wrote:

I doubt it, I think Sony are smart enough to check up on what patents and copyrights Nintendo might hold before pulling a move like this. I'd assume that everything is technically above-board, even if it is very similar to the Wiimote and Nunchuck.

Well, we're talking patents, and I won't be surprised if it infringes on the nunchuk patent. The orb is different enough. But if Nintendo patented the nunchuk in a very extensive way, which is usually the way patents are, it might indeed infringe. Sony must have felt it didn't have a choice.

I didn't read the nunchuk patent or its collection of patents, but keep in mind that Nintendo didn't have to create all the things it patented - it just had to think of all the possible ways such a device will be used. Let's say I have some experience with this subject. Such a patent description could be:

"a device connected via a wireless, wired or any physical way or through electromagnetic waves to a motion controller, and which has an analog stick and any number of buttons on it, primarily to be used by one hand while the other hand uses the motion controller"... such a patent may be valid and it's a pretty strong case too.

Edited on by mnementh

So ends a saga older than time itself.
The World's oldest and fiercest army has been led to victory, and a lost generation
is delivered from its fear of extinction. As the sun sets over the
field of conflict the dinosaurs disperse, hoping never to set foot
in this place again.

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skywake

63. Posted:

I'm sorry if what I am about to say has already been said here but I feel I should say this anyways. I mean, I assume there are other CS degreed peoples, Computer Engineers and Devs floating around on this forum but I thought I would throw down some technical insight and speculation on this.

Firstly there is one glaring potential limitation that I spotted really quickly and has recently been confirmed here. The PS3 like the Xbox and Wii uses bluetooth to communicate with its controllers and excluding various playing around with how the default bluetooth works (and degrading performance) bluetooth is limited to 1 host and 7 slaves. With that in mind look at this promo image.
Untitled
Correct me if I am wrong but if they want 4 of these medovilackies, 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 is greater than 7 so the last dude is going to miss out. Either they are doing some kind of dual communication thing (PS3 -> Blue-orb-thing -> nunchuck-thing) like some third parties have done with wireless Wii Remotes, they are doing some kind of bridge thing or they are going to have one less handset for player 4. They went with the last option....

I am guessing there could be a few reasons why. They might have listened to the fans complaining about the Wii and realised that people disliked the nunchuck cable. They might have thought it was wise to try and make another key difference between it and the Wii Remote + Nunchuck . I think its probably more likely that they were trying to avoid a Nintendo patent. This isn't a huge deal I mean, I have only used 4 Wii Remotes and 4 Nunchucks two or three times in the time I have had my Wii. I only own two nunchucks. It is going to be a huge deal for some people however.

Now, I know it may sound fanboyish when I say this but the lack of a cord between the controllers is also quite literally going to double the lag. Bluetooth uses a round robin configuration so if you have an extra device the other devices are going to have to wait for one extra turn. This again isn't THAT big a deal but to some people (read fighter games and FPS) this could be a big deal, at least psychologically. That combined with the fact that it uses a camera with image processing to center it as opposed to the relatively quicker, but less accurate, IR method the Wii Remote uses and this device isn't going to perform very well. As far as I can tell this has been the general response from the hands on I have read..... I don't know if these hands on used 2, 3 or 4 players of if it was just the 1 player but I am pretty sure that the four player experience won't be anywhere near as responsive. I am very curious as to how good the multiplayer experience turns out of if they manage to somehow iron out these performance issues.

The augmented reality is nice but I don't see this out-performing the Wii Remote which is surely going to be a kick in the pants to the performance mad PS3 loyal. The price is also well outside of what a casual consumer is likely willing to pay.... My guestimates has a PS3 + Eye + Move starts at $650AU while a Wii + Motion Plus (with Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort) only costs $388AU. This seems to have everything going against it.

Edited on by skywake

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Sean_Aaron

64. Posted:

Reggie said it best: this shamless imitation is embarassing; better to do something completely new - especially this late in the system's lifetime. I don't expect this or Natal to sell many machines, but who knows, maybe the loyal fanbases of each system will put the Intellivoice take-up to shame.

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mnementh

65. Posted:

nice skywake, thanks for the information. What I don't understand is how the pointer control can be accurate. If the camera tracks the ball (does the camera move all the time or does it have a really wide angle to begin with?) then a slight movement will not be recognized because the orb's size is pretty big. this alone makes it awful at least for wii owners who are used to the sensitive movement.

also I read someone commenting about the "candle in the mirror effect". If you wave the remote really rapidly then the camera will capture some of the light that's no longer there and mess everything up. This doesn't happen with the wii remote! I guess if anything, there will some frustrated reviews of these titles and will make for a hilarious read. It is sad that the wii will lose its uniqueness and I do think that Nintendo should have sued or something, but at the same it's also really hilarious and will be great to read some comments about it in the future.

Edited on by mnementh

So ends a saga older than time itself.
The World's oldest and fiercest army has been led to victory, and a lost generation
is delivered from its fear of extinction. As the sun sets over the
field of conflict the dinosaurs disperse, hoping never to set foot
in this place again.

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Bankai

66. Posted:

Faron wrote:

Raylax wrote:

Faron wrote:

I hate Sony. And Microsoft. They are just copying nintendo year after year. I'll stick with nintendo to the end.

Your loss dude.

Well, i had PS2 once, and that's propably the best console after different nintendos i've ever owned. Anyhow, i selled the system along with games like shadow of the colossus, okami, san andreas and mgs 3... and felt absolutely nothing after giving that console away. That's how much it meant for me. Afterwards, i bought okami back for the wii and noticed that controls and graphics were superior to ps2 version (unlike some bad players claim), and the game just felt better when i played it with nintendo. I'll never gonna buy sony's or microsoft's consoles again, and i consider it a win, not a loss for me, since i don't lose my money for shit like playstation or xbox...

Lols enjoy FFXIII on the Wii, then.

Oh wai-

I thought this Website and its readers were above the usual fanboy crap. Seems I was wrong. Ridiculous accusitions and assumptions ahoy.

(BTW, the patent system doesn't work like this - "if something kinda sorta looks like something that already exists, it's a breach of patents!" Because if that was the case Sony could sue everyone for CD/ DVD drives in gaming consoles. The actual performance has to be the same, and the PS3 Move quite clearly functions in an entirely different manner to the Wiimote)

@ Adamant - you raise some good points, I hadn't thought about it from that angle.

I hope for Sony's sake that Move ends up being a hit like the buzz controlers.

Edited on by Bankai

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mnementh

67. Posted:

I studied patent law and I have experience in the subject. It's not "if something kinda sorta looks" but these are called Design Patents. Nintendo only had to think of other ways that this might work - the technology can be totally different and still be a breach. Sony did not invent CD or DVD drives in gaming consoles. CD was done by Philips (who also invented the CD's). The combination of using a driver with a gaming platform would probably be classified by the patent laws as too "obvious" and was not patentend as far as I know.

I hear FFXIII really sucks.

So ends a saga older than time itself.
The World's oldest and fiercest army has been led to victory, and a lost generation
is delivered from its fear of extinction. As the sun sets over the
field of conflict the dinosaurs disperse, hoping never to set foot
in this place again.

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ninsane

68. Posted:

pixelman wrote:

Hah, nice post. I'll stick with my Wii, thank you very much. I read IGN's hands-on and apparently there's quite a bit of lag and calibration issues, just like with MotionPlus. Neither MotionPlus nor the "Sony Move" really impress me. Controls have to work consistently or they simply become a frustration. Imagine if an analog stick's center digitally slid out of wack, just like MotionPlus does in WSR's Swordplay. The game becomes virtually unplayable. There really needs to be a permanent fix for this where you don't have to constantly be recalibrating the device.

Never has a problem with motion plus.

Sounds like you are just making up a problem to even the playing field for early Move software you havent played?

lol at the game being virtually unplyable. never had that, plyed it for hours and hours.

Sorry mate.

I am nINSANE!

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mnementh

69. Posted:

The more I think about it, the more I realize what a huge service Sony is doing to Nintendo. Sony is single-handedly stripping its "hardcore" status away , it's awesome...

read this comment from kotaku:

"Of all the spin and marketing this device needs to succeed I cannot fathom why this guy has to spend time talking about the magical color changing to match your in-game spells. Last I checked PS3s weren't being purchased by 13 year old girls. It is marketed as a high end entertainment device with Blu-Ray capabilities. The majority of the television commercials are targeted towards the power buyer segment of people in their 20s-30s and the "big titles" they are pushing are things like Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain and God of War 3.

And this guy is talking about a pretty light show? Does he think that Move is going to magically turn the PS3 into a more family oriented console with little kids asking Mommy for the more expensive console without Mario?

I love my PS3. I love my PS3 exclusives. I want Sony to remember who their actual market is and talk accordingly."

Isn't it incredible? They're alienating their 'hardcore' audience which is just like people were claiming Nintendo was doing. With the release of Metroid and Zelda , and Xenoblade and The Last Story, at the same time Sony will be trying to release and market their console to little children , except that it WON'T even work... so it's a huge service for Nintendo. Will we ever see a PS3 fanboy calling the Wii a TOY again after this colored wand is introduced to the market? This is a great twist that didn't occur to me.

So ends a saga older than time itself.
The World's oldest and fiercest army has been led to victory, and a lost generation
is delivered from its fear of extinction. As the sun sets over the
field of conflict the dinosaurs disperse, hoping never to set foot
in this place again.

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Bankai

70. Posted:

mnementh wrote:

The more I think about it, the more I realize what a huge service Sony is doing to Nintendo. Sony is single-handedly stripping its "hardcore" status away , it's awesome...

read this comment from kotaku:

"Of all the spin and marketing this device needs to succeed I cannot fathom why this guy has to spend time talking about the magical color changing to match your in-game spells. Last I checked PS3s weren't being purchased by 13 year old girls. It is marketed as a high end entertainment device with Blu-Ray capabilities. The majority of the television commercials are targeted towards the power buyer segment of people in their 20s-30s and the "big titles" they are pushing are things like Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain and God of War 3.

And this guy is talking about a pretty light show? Does he think that Move is going to magically turn the PS3 into a more family oriented console with little kids asking Mommy for the more expensive console without Mario?

I love my PS3. I love my PS3 exclusives. I want Sony to remember who their actual market is and talk accordingly."

Isn't it incredible? They're alienating their 'hardcore' audience which is just like people were claiming Nintendo was doing. With the release of Metroid and Zelda , and Xenoblade and The Last Story, at the same time Sony will be trying to release and market their console to little children , except that it WON'T even work... so it's a huge service for Nintendo. Will we ever see a PS3 fanboy calling the Wii a TOY again after this colored wand is introduced to the market? This is a great twist that didn't occur to me.

I love it when "gamers" try and talk business. It never works. It always ends up being a series wild guesses and unintelligent ranting.

Last I checked, Buzz controllers and EyeToy didn't stop "hardcore" games being released on the PS2. Anyone who thinks that 100% of the focus on Playstation 3 development in the future will be on Move applications is dull in the head.

Edited on by Bankai

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romulux

71. Posted:

[quote=Faron]

WaltzElf wrote:

I thought this Website and its readers were above the usual fanboy crap. Seems I was wrong. Ridiculous accusitions and assumptions ahoy.

i'll admit to fanboying, but sony is really, really asking for it, so just this once i think it's ok.

also, you had high expectations for an internet forum?

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Bankai

72. Posted:

[quote=WaltzElf]

romulux wrote:

Faron wrote:

I thought this Website and its readers were above the usual fanboy crap. Seems I was wrong. Ridiculous accusitions and assumptions ahoy.

i'll admit to fanboying, but sony is really, really asking for it, so just this once i think it's ok.

also, you had high expectations for an internet forum?

haha, not really, but Nintendolife does usually prove to be the exception to the rule. It's just gone a little funny recently.

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GC-161

73. Posted:

Found this article interesting:
http://ps3.gamespy.com/playstation-3/playstation-motion-contr...
Excerpts:

In our hands (Move) was (to put it bluntly) a less ergonomic, less responsive charcoal Wii Remote with less buttons, less charm, and less compelling software surrounding it... and a neon ping-pong ball fastened atop. Waving and waggling it in front of the dozens of different demo kiosks allowed players to tread bold old roads, like bowling, table tennis, and archery. Sound familiar? It's an approach to motion-controlled gaming that was seemingly designed by a group of people who spent the last five years studying the Wii's marketing campaign, as opposed to studying what worked -- and most importantly, what didn't work -- with the Wii's software lineup.

Games like SOCOM 4 showed promise, perhaps, and interactive toys like the EyePet elicited a few giggles from onlookers as they watched players squirm around the floor, flailing their arms in synchronized confusion with a polygonal chia-chimp. But all in all this was not the revolutionary new motion controller Sony hinted at during last year's E3 presentation. This was a soulless party game stick surrounded by a gaggle of half-concocted ideas and missteps. And until we see some really big guns roll out to justify its existence, this will be an all-too-familiar road to traverse.

And

I'm not pleased with the idea of buying even more peripherals and controllers to clutter up my already filled-to-the-brim-with-crap living space. Microsoft's Natal just needs a camera to work its magic; to get the most out of the PlayStation Move, you're going to need an EyeToy, a batch of Move controllers, and some of those horribly named Sub-controllers. Enough is enough, already!

GC-161

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Sean_Aaron

74. Posted:

WaltzElf wrote:

Last I checked, Buzz controllers and EyeToy didn't stop "hardcore" games being released on the PS2. Anyone who thinks that 100% of the focus on Playstation 3 development in the future will be on Move applications is dull in the head.

True, but those were also bundled with specific games to use them; I suppose it might be the same with Move, but I'm not getting a sense of a coherent strategy here. Kotaku seems spot on: unless Sony is planning some kind of two-pronged marketing campaign I think they've already done a fair job of explaining to the public that they're a system for people who want to watch movies in HD and play games involving racing and shooting people in 3D.

I suppose if they're taking a long view and plan to sell the PS3 for another 5+ years they could have some success, but otherwise this just smacks of desperation and seems doomed to fail.

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mnementh

75. Posted:

WaltzElf, I had to google what Buzz controllers were, because this is the first time I ever heard about them (although once I did google it, I recognized that I'd seen a similar design in toys r us). I guess that's a good thing if the move is compared to the eyetoy and these controllers that I never heard before. It's fanboyism but I'd love it if it's a flop, then again i would love if it's a hit and all hardcore games will be pissed that the focus has turned to them... win-win.

So ends a saga older than time itself.
The World's oldest and fiercest army has been led to victory, and a lost generation
is delivered from its fear of extinction. As the sun sets over the
field of conflict the dinosaurs disperse, hoping never to set foot
in this place again.

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Raylax

76. Posted:

Just a wild ballpark prediction timeline here, based on what happened when Nintendo apparently went "all casual:"

1) Fans will mark it as an interesting move by Sony, despite being laughed at by other competition for looking sort of stupid and being a tad casual.

2) Focus on attention to the new device will mean that slightly less 'true hardcore' titles are released. Not so much that anyone with even a vague grasp on reality will notice, but this is the internet and only logical extremes exist. A little less of the hardcore brands mean that CLEARLY IT'S ALL GOING DOWN THE PAN.

3) Continued annoyance that despite still receiving their favourite brands at the usual pace, there's now other companies releasing casual games they are in no way required to purchase.

4) Half the fans halfway-abandon ship in mass panic that their beloved console is going all casual on them (despite, y'know, it isn't), and climb aboard a console which continues to produce more hardcore games (which in reality it doesn't, there just wasn't a waggle-based sports compilation released on it as a major title). Of course, they still keep and regularly play their PS3s, but it gives them something to moan about on forums.

5) Microsoft gets to be amused by the fact that they've now picked up half the previous Sony and Nintendo hardcore fanbase and they haven't even released their motion controller yet. Or indeed done anything in particular at all.

Edited on by Raylax

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Percentful

77. Posted:

WaltzElf wrote:

Last I checked, Buzz controllers and EyeToy didn't stop "hardcore" games being released on the PS2. Anyone who thinks that 100% of the focus on Playstation 3 development in the future will be on Move applications is dull in the head.

Yes, but Buzz controllers were just for one "casual" game. Move [from what has been said about it] is intended to be a "second prong". You don't see articles about Buzz controllers or Eyetoy, but I've seen multiple for the Move.

Edited on by Percentful

Just let it happen.

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the_shpydar

78. Posted:

Raylax wrote:

3) Continued annoyance that despite still receiving their favourite brands at the usual pace, there's now other companies releasing casual games they are in no way required to purchase.

This one was my favorite. Well done, Raylax. =)

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romulux

79. Posted:

it's interesting how sony defends the 'move' whenever the subject of wiimote similarities comes up. i saw this interview today:

"IG: From what the third parties have been saying over the past few months, and from what I've seen here today, the experiences are very reminiscent of the types of things you'd see on the Wii. Are you concerned that the games will be basically HD ports of Wii games?

SR: It's a good question, but it's not something that concerns us honestly. We researched a lot of different technologies before we settled on the one we did. It's a homegrown technology and we chose it for a number of reasons, chiefly because of the precision that we knew we could get."

if they researched every option and decided that the wiimote template was best... isn't this whole thing one big affirmation that nintendo got it right with the wii motion+? they're tacitly admitting that catching up to the wiimote was the best they could do.

"When you're talking about a game that was demoed like Table Tennis out there, you might be able to play that on another system, but I think we showed very well that you can get that top spin or slice in there and it really feels like you're playing a Table Tennis game."

this is what every answer from sony has been like- they posit that their remote is better than the wiimote by saying that it's the exact same thing. he begins by admitting that you can play their ping pong game already on wii, then details that it has the same depth of motion control that the wii motion+ offers, then concludes by stating that their controller is better: done and done. it happens again later:

"IG: So if you had to sum up Move vs. the Wii, what is the primary differentiator? What gives you the advantage over the Wii?

SR: There's a lot of different things. I think the precision is number one. It's a true 3D motion controller. I'm not sure how evident that was on stage, but it's not just a 2D space. You really move back and forth. When you're holding a tennis racket, for example, and flipping it around, it really feels like you're holding it and that's a new experience that the competition does not have."

remember when the motion+ came out and people were talking about how fun it was to spin your sword/paddles/racquets in your hand? that never happened. sony has sent terminators back in time to destroy it.

in fairness, he does go on to say "Also, because of the camera, the PS Eye, we add that whole element of augmented reality. And I think that's a big advantage we have over what the Wii has done to date."
finally, there you have it- the big unique advantage move has is that it can paint goofy crap all over your image on the screen. where do i put my $400?

and as for who sony expects to get that $400 from....

"IG: Do you literally anticipate that people who are Wii owners right now will say, 'Hey, here's another motion control system similar to Wii. I want to upgrade.' Do you believe you'll see a lot of that?

SR: I think so, sure. That's definitely an audience that we're targeting."

no doubt about it, they really are expecting to wii owners to spend twice the amount they already did on the wii in order to get a ps3 and move.... for what? the advantages of the eye toy? to see wii sports in HD? he goes on to reason that the PS3 will also appeal to casuals because it plays blu-ray and streams HD content online. if those features could attract the casual audience, why haven't they done so already? i don't know how successful sony will be with this, maybe it will be a success, but right now it looks like they plan to just set a wiimote on the shelf and expect the casuals to come running.

full interview: http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/playstation-moves-augm...

Edited on by romulux

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Sean_Aaron

80. Posted:

Raylax wrote:

5) Microsoft gets to be amused by the fact that they've now picked up half the previous Sony and Nintendo hardcore fanbase and they haven't even released their motion controller yet. Or indeed done anything in particular at all.

Then repeat the rest when Microsoft releases Natal and in the end the only "gamers" left will be people who actually like to play games, huzzah!

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