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1. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 05:57 BST
not official yet, but it seems like natal may cost as much as an entire system. i'm not fanboying but couple the high price, 13 foot space requirement, and fact that no one in the casual market has an xbox and you've got a rough road ahead if the figure is correct. the price of buying into natal for a new customer (ie, the people microsoft is targeting with this) would be $460. compare that to the wii bundle at $200, wii sports and wii sports resort included. is HD alone worth double the price to the casual crowd?
sony move deserves to crash and burn for being the heartless rip off that it is, but i hope microsoft sees at least some success from this; they tried. it's just the thing seems to get more and more impractical the more we know about it.
Edited on Wed 13th October, 2010 @ 04:48 by romulux
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2. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 06:07 BST
It really depends on how many controllers with M+ you want with Wii. For every extra controller, add an extra $65-$75 ($40 for wiimote, $15 for nunchuck, and $10-$20 for M+ depending on if it's bundled with a game or not. Getting 4 controllers would be more expensive than controllerless Natal (they need to price drop those and just bundle the Wiimote and M+ together).
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3. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 06:10 BST
If Natal can do what some insiders say it can do, the $200 price tag won't matter much. And I still think this is just a warmup for their next console. A lot of questions will be answered at E3. But interesting to see exactly what developers have come up with to show Natal off.
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4. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 06:16 BST
I highly doubt it will cost $200. Microsoft isn't Apple, they aren't smart enough, nor their products actually good enough, nor their consumers dumb enough (usually, people did buy Zunes and the 360 on launch day) to sell extremely overpriced, over-hyped crap to even the most idiotic consumers. As much as Move is a glorified Wiimote, Natal is just a glorified EyeToy, any price over $100 would be ridiculous. I liked the initial speculation price of $80, seemed not too high, not too low. Of course, anything Peter Molyneux touches, praises, or hypes up tends to be... well, half as good as he makes it sound, cough Fable, Fable 2, soon to be Fable 3.
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5. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 08:01 BST
@kevohki: do I sense some Apple fanboyism? I find Apple products EXTREMELY overrated and more of a status icon than anything, and I hate the Mac interface. But anyway, I really don't know how this will work and I'd prefer to use a controller with a game...it doesn't feel right otherwise. As the first poster said, Sony's controller deserves to flop and will likely be another in their recent trend of woefully stupid hardware failures.
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6. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 08:14 BST
Getting 4 controllers would be more expensive than controllerless Natal.
you don't need to buy 4 since the wii comes with one. the $50 wiimote/motion plus bundles and 3 nunchucks would be about $195 ($395 with system), so even in the worst case scenario a wii is cheaper.
but most people don't need that many controllers; there are very few times (if any) that you need all 4 remotes with motion+ and nunchucks attached (just two loaded remotes are all you need to play resort if you share). if you want the comparison of each system to be fair you have to fully equip the remotes to match what natal does, but having the flexibility to buy only what you need still counts for something; with natal you pay the full price whether it's you alone or all 4 people.
corbie, can you go into more detail about what things natal does that could make price irrelevant? from what i've seen it gives you the advantage of using your whole body but the accuracy seems to be dumbed down compared to a 1:1 controller.
7. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 11:24 BST
I'm not too sure about this. Using your whole body as a controller doesn't really appeal to me that much.
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8. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 11:35 BST
@kevohki: do I sense some Apple fanboyism? I find Apple products EXTREMELY overrated and more of a status icon than anything, and I hate the Mac interface.
Whether he's a fanboy or not, the point he's making is sound: Apple has built up the kind of reputation that has hordes of people lined up to pay top dollar for something that's bound to be improved upon and marked down within a year. Personally I love Apple products...but even if one didn't, that much is obvious. People pay top dollar for Apple products and are proud to do so, because, by and large, they've proven to have staying power.
He's mentioning that for the sake of pointing out that Microsoft's track record doesn't really allow for that kind of blind optimism. Or, at least, it doesn't put them in a position where they can just sit back and hope people shell out an absurd fee for something that may well be a hunk of junk for all we know right now.
Accusing him of fanboyism is missing the point. Apple's managed to build a strong consumer base due to the fact that their products (again, on the whole) are of a certain level of high quality. Microsoft has managed to build a consumer base despite the fact that their first attempts at hardware are often terrible. The former allows for a high price tag, launch day risk. The second really should not.
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9. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 11:38 BST
Getting 4 controllers would be more expensive than controllerless Natal
Not every wii player needs more than one wiimote/nunchuk/wiimotion plus though.
10. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 11:40 BST
Unless the natal comes with an awesome interface, $200 is really pushing it. I can get a Wii for that amount of money!
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11. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 12:06 BST
Those omnipresent commercials where that Justin Long twerp disses PCs and their users left a spiteful and bitter taste in my mouth. Regardless, this appears to be an attempt to make games fully controlled by your actions in the real world sans controller, the kind of out-there tech that may hit or miss. I do not thin k we will see completely controller-less gaming in our lifetime, as it would require such a radical adjustment from what we have hardwired into our skillsets.
Anyway, if it flops, MS can probably soak up the costs; if that PS3 Wiimote ripoff tanks, though, Sony will have to do major damage control.
12. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 12:17 BST
Sony Move deserves to crash and burn for being the heartless rip off that it is, but i hope Microsoft sees at least some success from this; they tried. It's just the thing seems to get more and more impractical the more we know about it.
You need an EyeToy to play with the Move, and all it senses is motion (I think) and the stupid bloody light on the end.
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13. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 12:21 BST
I know not every player NEEDS four Wiimotes, but to buy 4 full controller sets (wii, m+, and a nunchuck) would cost at least $195 if all the M+ were bundled with games (most likely that wouldn't happen, how many people want EVERY game bundled with M+, it also means you do have to figure in the price of the game as well, you'd need 3 extra games before you'd be able to play with 4 people). True, most games let you trade wiimotes and take turns, so you'd really only need 2. However, for someone without a console looking to buy one, they might not realize that.
If Natal offers some really cool games and they actually work well, $200 is not that big of a purchase. If you have a big family, or you play socially with lots of friends, the price, in comparison, isn't terrible. For $5 more, you get the same functionality and a lot less clutter. It's just like the PS3 Move, they need to offer a product that works better than the WM+ and isn't buggy at launch (because the kinks have, for the most part with good devs been worked out for the Wii) at a decent price point, AND games that do things the Wii can't. Wii Sports Resort HD or Mario Kart HD won't be enough for most people.
14. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 12:26 BST
I can't think of any company historically less capable of bringing tech ideas from the stage of flashy proof-of-concept to smoothly implemented and integrated product. I remember watching dazzling videos of Microsoft Surface, and yet, while the tech inside that interface is impressive, it has been doomed to a niche status at best due to its price tag and lack of integration into any sort of sellable product. Take the touch implementation on the iPhone, in contrast -- even though its only real tech innovation is multi-touch, nowhere near the complexity of Surface -- and you have a product that forever changed the way the world thinks about interfacing with a handheld device, due to how seamlessly that interaction was incorporated into the product's design and usage.
Microsoft always does that, throwing some of their inexhaustible R&D funding behind a cool idea and eventually demoing it, yet never quite grasping the way a successful company (yes, like Apple or Nintendo) must produce a well-implemented and targeted product above all else -- in which the new tech makes sense as fundamental component of the product's identity and vision -- rather than simply creating more and more optional attachments and upgrades. I have no doubts about the tech in Natal being impressive and cool, but I have immense doubts about it having any sort of real impact on the broader marketplace.
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15. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 12:34 BST
A few months back Matt C from IGN had talked to a few developers working on Natal and they've been saying it's been terrible and buggy as hell to work with. Not to mention Both Natal and Sony Move can only go up to 30fps, while Wii games can go up to 60fps. I'm not exactly excited for either of them, since I know Nintendo will release something more mind blowing when the Wii2 rolls out. They've got tons of genious Oompaloopa's at Nintendo R & D
That aside, If Sony Move delivers, I may end up getting it. It would be nice for something like Dead Space 2.
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16. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 13:00 BST
Mmm, I think extra peripherals, years after the introduction of the console they are meant for, are a hard sell anyway. Unless it's abolutely mindblowing and tons of developers are backing it. Look at our own Nintendo's M+. It's not even very expensive but why should I get it if there are only a couple of games that support it. So Natal should be absolutely f*cking fantastic if it want's to sell. With more than just a few casual Wii-sports like games and gimmicky, optional, implementation in games that work just as well without it.
17. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 13:16 BST
Is this the official "bash Microsoft" topic? No they aren't perfect, but who is? I'd love to see the people hating on them here create an entire industry - such that if it weren't for them, those precious iWhatevers wouldn't exist. Give them a break and let them do their thing - even if Natal is unsuccessful, it doesn't take away from a very good game console and its success.
18. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 13:25 BST
Still less than buying a PS3 and Playstation Move Bundle.
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19. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 13:35 BST
Or any of their bundles. (And I do have a PS3, doesn't mean I'm above mocking Sony.)
20. Posted: Wed 19th May 2010 14:38 BST
Give them a break and let them do their thing - even if Natal is unsuccessful, it doesn't take away from a very good game console and its success.
for the love of all that's holy, this. if Natal is unsuccessful, all Nintendo and Sony have to do is sit back and laugh. If it's successful, having Natal around as competition is going to raise the bar for the other two. We, the consumer, can only benefit from all of this, really. :3
I do think it's gonna bomb, though. it's not the price, it's whether or not it'll work properly for everyone who buys it and whether the games for it will really click with the type of gamer that plays the 360. i'm just not seeing a bunch of dudes wanting to play Call of Duty or any other serious FPS with hand-gestures (unless flipping the bird at the screen does something super-awesome, lol...?)
Edited on Wed 19th May, 2010 @ 14:38 by theblackdragon
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