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Topic: Congrats to Shigeru Miyamoto well deserving of his award tomorrow

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Machu

41. Posted:

@Toki: So tell me Sir, what have you done in your life which is so outstanding that you feel Shigeru's achievements don't warrant praise and applause?

What's not to respect? This guy watches life, sees fun, and replicates it in games. Personally, I think he is a genius.

Edited on by Machu

Rawr!

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42. Posted:

Machu wrote:

@Toki: So tell me Sir, what have you done in your life which is so outstanding that you feel Shigeru's achievements don't warrant praise and applause?

What's not to respect? This guy watches life, sees fun, and replicates it in games. Personally, I think he is a genius.

The value of an accomplishment is subjective. It can't be measured against someone else because what's important to me, might not be important to you, or to the "genius" Miyamoto. Wouldn't you agree?

Besides, I said he helped create the video game industry. That's saying something, and I'm the one who said it! I don't not respect the guy, I just don't care for his work.

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Machu

43. Posted:

Yes, I totally agree. To you, this discussion seems worthwhile. To me, not.

He got the award, 5h1t happens, next!

Rawr!

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44. Posted:

Discussion? I don't think so. But he did win the award, either way. And I suppose that's great for him.

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WanderFan91

45. Posted:

I think it's great that Shigeru Miyamoto got an award.

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romulux

46. Posted:

about miyamoto's importance today- not only does he work on games, but system development as well. he's always the first one nintendo looks to for ideas about what new direction to take. he had a large role in designing the wii and pushing for motion control; i'm assuming that because you're on this forum, you think the wii was a good idea. you don't think that was a meaningful contribution?

and as i said before, he's continued working not only on his own games but has also contributed to many other titles at the same time. sticking with mario and zelda alone could be a full time job, but he does it while helping with countless other titles and new hardware development. nintendo puts him everywhere they can because in their eyes everything he touches turns to gold, and based off the success nintendo's having lately, players seem to agree.

but feel free to have any differing opinion you want about miyatomo's games, i sincerely don't care. the point is that every gamer should respect the man himself for how much he's influenced video game history.

if you do respect him and feel that he laid the foundation for gaming, then why claim he's undeserving of recognition for it? why insinuate that despite creating mario and zelda and overseeing each game in those series since, he deserves no credit for the quality of those games? you're belittling his career with absolutely no explanation why, other than you just 'don't think' he did anything. and i'm guessing you don't think he did anything just because he hasn't directly worked in your favorite genre.

try to understand why it's annoying for those of us who do love miyamoto's games to see someone come in and crap all over him during a celebration of his work, apparently just for the sake of being contrary.

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47. Posted:

@ romulux
If I respond to your overly-enthusiastic post, then you will, in turn, reply to it. This pattern will go on and on until the moderators lock this topic, or until one of us throws in the towel. I could come up with a million reasons as to why you are mistaken, as could you to me. But, why bother? You've already said you "sincerely" don't care what I think, and since this has become a rather hostile debate, I've lost the will to continue. So, I quit! As Machu said, "next"!

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romulux

48. Posted:

Toki wrote:

@ romulux
I could come up with a million reasons as to why you are mistaken

one is all i've asked for. i don't want to argue further, i just want to (politely!) ask you to explain your point before you quit- what about his work lacks depth, what makes you think he doesn't do anything worthwhile anymore? there's nothing hostile in me asking that; if you felt strongly enough about it to post it, you should be able to answer that question.

Toki wrote:

@ romulux
You've already said you "sincerely" don't care what I think

...about whether or not you like his games, not your opinion in general. meaning that it didn't bother me if you dislike them, since you felt that was what the argument was about.

Edited on by romulux

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Token_Girl

49. Posted:

@Toki

Who do you think has been more important and influential in the development of video games since the early 80's that would be deserving of this reward, had Miyamoto not received it? While I can think of lots of other great devs (depending on the type of game you like, you may think they're better), none of them have had the same impact in their lifetimes overall as Miyamoto has until now. However, if there's someone I'm missing, please feel free to enlighten me.

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mnementh

50. Posted:

If I had to give a prize to a developer, I would give it to Roberta Willams. She invented the Adventure Games genres on DOS with King's Quest and that's what I was playing as a kid most of the time. I'm glad I got to experience Miyamoto's awesome work too later on.

So ends a saga older than time itself.
The World's oldest and fiercest army has been led to victory, and a lost generation
is delivered from its fear of extinction. As the sun sets over the
field of conflict the dinosaurs disperse, hoping never to set foot
in this place again.

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51. Posted:

romulux wrote:

Toki wrote:

@ romulux
I could come up with a million reasons as to why you are mistaken

one is all i've asked for. i don't want to argue further, i just want to (politely!) ask you to explain your point before you quit- what about his work lacks depth, what makes you think he doesn't do anything worthwhile anymore? there's nothing hostile in me asking that; if you felt strongly enough about it to post it, you should be able to answer that question.

Toki wrote:

@ romulux
You've already said you "sincerely" don't care what I think

...about whether or not you like his games, not your opinion in general. meaning that it didn't bother me if you dislike them, since you felt that was what the argument was about.

A video game has two aspects: technical, and creative. From a technical standpoint, almost every Nintendo-created product is spot-on! Very solid craftsmanship, and they’re usually pretty fun to play. It’s the creative aspect that flops for me. This presents a problem, because that's the primary reason I play video games. Most of Nintendo’s franchises rehash the same boring plot time and again, no matter how silly it seems to do so. The bulk of their characters have little to no personality, and most of their costumes are pretty bland (ranging from blue overalls to red shoes). I just don't think there's enough going on underneath the surface to warrant a lifetime achievement award to anybody.

That is, assuming Miyamoto has had enough input for him to even qualify in that category. From what I can tell, he's always been either the producer, or the director. This means that his duties include financing (and therefore, green lightning projects), dealing with the legal process, and giving some creative insight to the developers. To me, he's taking the credit from someone else's hard work (work which, as stated above, I don't care for), just like Steven Spielberg's always doing.

I could be wrong, though. Anyway, that's my answer!

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52. Posted:

Token+Girl wrote:

@Toki

Who do you think has been more important and influential in the development of video games since the early 80's that would be deserving of this reward, had Miyamoto not received it? While I can think of lots of other great devs (depending on the type of game you like, you may think they're better), none of them have had the same impact in their lifetimes overall as Miyamoto has until now. However, if there's someone I'm missing, please feel free to enlighten me.

If I was handing out awards, I might give one to Jun Senoue, or maybe Ayami Kojima. They've done a lot of good work, and unlike Miyamoto, Jun's spent his entire life completely devoted to his line of work.

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mnementh

53. Posted:

Didn't Miyamoto INVENT Mario the character? that would make him a bit more than a producer/director. That would make him the creator. I think when it comes to his franchises, he's like James Cameron was to avatar (not a direct analogy) - vision, concept, direction, everything...

Edited on by mnementh

So ends a saga older than time itself.
The World's oldest and fiercest army has been led to victory, and a lost generation
is delivered from its fear of extinction. As the sun sets over the
field of conflict the dinosaurs disperse, hoping never to set foot
in this place again.

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54. Posted:

I think I already mentioned that. But yes, he created Mario. That was a long time ago, though. Since the NES era, I don't think he's had as much involvement with Nintendo's growth as he's like us to believe. That was my point.

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mnementh

55. Posted:

but how do you know that? unless you have an insider inside Nintendo or did some humongous research, then I think we can be pretty sure that he really had a ton of involvement like Nintendo says (not him).

So ends a saga older than time itself.
The World's oldest and fiercest army has been led to victory, and a lost generation
is delivered from its fear of extinction. As the sun sets over the
field of conflict the dinosaurs disperse, hoping never to set foot
in this place again.

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56. Posted:

mnementh wrote:

but how do you know that? unless you have an insider inside Nintendo or did some humongous research, then I think we can be pretty sure that he really had a ton of involvement like Nintendo says (not him).

How does anybody know anything? It's speculation, kind of like a conspiracy theory.

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romulux

57. Posted:

i think i understand now what you meant when you said his games lack depth- they're meant to be simple and fun in a very direct way without having much plot or story. you could even say the games have no point; in my opinion that's part of the appeal, after sitting through 9 hours of metal gear 4 cinema it's refreshing to play a game that's not afraid to make no sense whatsoever.

mario has no story because it's about pure gameplay. the design came from what would be fun to do first and foremost with no thought of why; that's why you have a man jumping into pipes and fighting turtles in his overalls, and that's why there could be no possible way to explain what's going on.
looking at the surreal worlds and gameplay mechanics it's clear that imagination is in full supply, it's just not applied to story because any attempt to make sense would limit the more baffling elements gameplay (why does a leaf turn you into a racoon, therefore giving you the ability to fly?)

zelda is comparatively realistic and requires more story, but as you said it's the same thing every time. link fits joseph campbell's hero template (the one george lucas used for luke skywalker) and as such needs no explanation; he's the archetypal good guy.
miyamoto liked exploring fields and caves as a kid and wanted a game that captured that fun, so he needed a reason for his character to be searching these places. the hero template quickly allows everything necessary for the game to make sense to be set up without getting in the way of the game itself afterward.

it's not that miyamoto doesn't have the vision for a deep story, it's that story isn't his goal. i think in his opinion plot limits what the game can do and diminishes the simple 'pick it up and have fun' quality of a game, and i tend to agree.
maybe you're out for a different experience that's less immediate, that's fine. i'm not trying to convince you to change your mind. but to say that the guy hasn't contributed anything to gaming and doesn't even deserve one award, even after admitting in the same sentence that he laid the foundation for the games industry, is silly isn't it? you can respect what he's done even if you're not a fan.

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58. Posted:

I don't mind simplicity in a story, they don't all need to be like Killer7 or Metal Gear Solid (overly convoluted). The most important component of a story is a smooth narrative, and I feel that's something most Nintendo games lack. Now, I use the term "most", because not all of them do. Paper Mario, Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine, and Twilight Princess are all notable exceptions. Even though each of these games (except Luigi's Mansion, of course) rehashes the same plot like previous entries had done, but they do so with a flair. So that (despite my reservations) I can genuinely enjoy them. Unfortunately, that's a very small fraction of Nintendo's games, and like I said, I usually don't play video games for the game play.

And as for Miyamoto, he does deserve an award for his contributions, certainly, but not for an entire lifetime. If anything, Thomas T. Goldsmith Jr. is more deserving of the award, because he created the very first interactive electronic game (I think it's called the Cathode Ray Amusement Device). Without him, the video game industry wouldn't exist in the first place for Miyamoto to come along and revolutionize! But that's just one achievement, and as great as it is, I don't think it deserves a lifetime of praise.

Now, Jun Senoue on the other hand has worked his entire life composing music for the Sonic series, which is the one thing that even the most hostile detractors can agree has been consistently good. He's even managed several bands too! That in my opinion, warrants a lifetime achievement award.

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Bankai

59. Posted:

Now, Jun Senoue on the other hand has worked his entire life composing music for the Sonic series, which is the one thing that even the most hostile detractors can agree has been consistently good. He's even managed several bands too! That in my opinion, warrants a lifetime achievement award.

Well I could just say that "IMO you're wrong" and by copying you demonstrate how silly your anti-Miyamoto junk is, but I think most of the other people here realise that when it comes to achievement awards it's better to try and be a bit objective, rather than object to it on a subjective level.

PS, I do think there are far better music directors than Jun Senoue in the gaming industry. Perhaps they deserve the achievement awards over your choice.

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60. Posted:

WaltzElf wrote:

Well I could just say that "IMO you're wrong"...

You could say whatever you want! And by the way, I'm not anti-Miyamoto.

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