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Topic: Wii Motion Plus VS Project Natal VS Sony's Wand-Your thoughts

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clicketyclick

41. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

As for Motion+, I could see it working if used sparsely in adventure games. For example, if the next Zelda were paced more like Shadow of the Colossus with a lot of exploration breaking up the action segments, that could work. But consistent motion in any long, traditional game is going to be irritating no matter how well implemented.

Ya, I agree with that. I've always had a hard time figuring out how motion+ could be implemented in a sword-fighting game. If it left jabbing and blocking entirely up to you, the game would be way too hard and frustrating. I mean, people train for years in fencing and swashbuckling in order to be able to figure out how their enemy is going to strike and counter it. I just don't see it working.

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Chrono_Cross

42. Posted:

clicketyclick wrote:

Okay, well, can people come up with a way that motion+ can be implemented in non-sports, non-racing, and non-minigames that will enhance the game and not just replace button presses? I mean, if you want developers to implement it well, then tell us how they should be implementing it.

Since there really is no games coming out that implement Motion sensoring instead of button pressing how about you go do us some research and get back to us in like a few weeks? Hmmm? Sounds good to me.
Even though games that don`t full impliment Motion aren`t necessarily bad at all and to say the least I don`t care either.

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Stevie

43. Posted:

I don't think Motion control can replace traditional gaming methods for most games, it can only compliment it, the reason this hasn't worked well so far is down to accuracy which is where Motion+ comes in. This is also why Natal is screwed without some form of traditional controller to use along side it.

Edited on by Stevie

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clicketyclick

44. Posted:

Chrono+Cross wrote:

clicketyclick wrote:

Okay, well, can people come up with a way that motion+ can be implemented in non-sports, non-racing, and non-minigames that will enhance the game and not just replace button presses? I mean, if you want developers to implement it well, then tell us how they should be implementing it.

Since there really is no games coming out that implement Motion sensoring instead of button pressing how about you go do us some research and get back to us in like a few weeks? Hmmm? Sounds good to me.

:| Wow, what's the problem here? Adam and Stevie answered the question just fine...

Now Playing: Bioshock

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Adam

45. Posted:

@ Wario
I don't think it's unfair to lump Mario Kart or Excite Bots with racing games. That is what they are. Surely, they do other things, but those other things are done with button presses anyway. The core motion controls are ordinary racing, so it fits. If I used motion controls to toss shells, and these controls were somehow better than pressing a button, that'd be different.

WarioWare has a few games where the controller simply does not register for me. I've had this problem on multiple Wiis, and reviews noted this as well. The one game I can think of offhand is where you balance the broom in the palm of your hand. Most of the games work admirably though, so I don't mean to criticize the entire game. I loved it for a couple months, but eventually the screwy games frustrated us too much to want to play it repeatedly. I hope they make a new one with Motion+.

Lastly, Wii Music does potentially offer some good dynamic control, but it just does not respond well for me in reality. Sometimes I barely move my hand and it registers a note that wasn't intended, and sometimes I move my hand a lot and nothing happens, or it doesn't happen until the end of the motion. Again, this is something I think Motion+ could potentially fix.

Obviously these problems in different games occur for some and not others, so it's not like the remote is a total failure. Aside from sports games and mini-game compilations, it doesn't get a lot of good applications, especially in traditional games. And while I definitely enjoy some of the more family-oriented games Nintendo is releasing, I still play Smash Brothers, a motionless and IR-less game, more than anything else, and look forward more to Muramasa and New Super Mario Brothers than any other games this year.

Edited on by Adam

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Chrono_Cross

46. Posted:

Because Adam sorta stole my idea. And the truth is really that WM+ will help devs more in implementing motion controls in future Wii games. Like I said earlier.

Even though I`m really here to watch the conversation since this topic isn`t really my cup of tea lol
Or in other words I dont care what any of your opinions and requests are.

Edited on by Chrono_Cross

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Stevie

47. Posted:

On a side note I am really suprised the Wii hasn't had more point & click adventures. It is perfect for them.

Edited on by Stevie

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Adam

48. Posted:

Are they really that popular? I didn't think Zack and Wiki did that well. Strongbad might have, but it had the popularity of Homestar Runner behind it, and the WiiWare service has different sales expectations.

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clicketyclick

49. Posted:

__Stevie wrote:

On a side note I am really suprised the Wii hasn't had more point & click adventures. It is perfect for them.

Yes, exactly. Exactly exactly. Point-n-click, adventure, RTS... the IR is the best thing about the wiimote, and why the focus of the industry is on waggle and flail instead, I have no idea. The Wii is like that really talented artist who showed so much promise but became a drunkard and ended up as a hobo begging for money on the street and all that promise was squandered.

Edited on by clicketyclick

Now Playing: Bioshock

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Stevie

50. Posted:

Im talking more Broken Sword, Monkey Island (which i am highly anticipating for Wiiware) ie A proper adventure.

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Crushy

51. Posted:

I don't have a problem with saying some consoles are better than the wii, but in this case Nintendo easily.

History has shown us that creating a new expensive accessory for a console will fail because no one will buy it due to lack of decent games supporting it, and companies won't make games for it because many people don't have them.

Nintendo must have realized this since motion plus is easily affordable (Think about it, would you buy the PS3 wand which doesn't have any games yet, or a new game which will entertain you immediately?). It's so cheap in fact that it's being bundled with third party games.

There's also another thing to consider: Wiimotion plus doesn't seem cumbersome to keep around, and won't cause any major adaptation problems like the other competitors: A "Wand" game for the PS3 or a "Natal" game will require software designed to work with and ONLY with those devices. The red steel 2 developers probably were working on their game WAY before Motion plus was announced, felt that it would be neat to have 1:1 movement tracking and included it.

Crushy

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slambert215

52. Posted:

WiiMotion+
Its works very well but the only games supporting it in the coming months are a golf game, two tennis games, Wii Soprts Resort, and Red Steel 2. Too little games

Sony's Wand:
Bad design (you know what I mean), and just looks too similar to the Wii Remote. It has an ok chance of doing well.

Natal:
Works so well, but you need a lot of space and will very likely need to pay hundreds of dollars for it. Looks promising though.

My verdict:
Natal, then Motion+ then wand

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warioswoods

53. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

WarioWare has a few games where the controller simply does not register for me. I've had this problem on multiple Wiis, and reviews noted this as well. The one game I can think of offhand is where you balance the broom in the palm of your hand.

I know what your problem was: that game, as well as many others you might not expect, uses the IR in combination with the motion sensing in order to measure your movements (towards or away from the TV, etc, which motion alone can't register accurately). What you did, and what I saw one person do but corrected them for a successful retry, was to lay the remote flat in your palm (that part is correct) but then let your fingers bend up slightly at the end and block the IR sensor. You have to follow the instructions and lay your hand completely flat, no bent fingers, or it won't be able to see the location of the sensor bar and you won't register movement properly at all.

That microgame, as all the others, does work perfectly, but there are a couple pitfalls where you might not think you have to follow the Forms instructions to the letter when in fact you do.

Edited on by warioswoods

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Adam

54. Posted:

I don't recall doing that, but anything's possible. I was still using my wrist straps back then, so I had no need to grip it when the diagram made it clear I shouldn't. I also remember having significantly worse problems in other similar games. But even if every time the Wii remote screws up is actually me doing something wrong because of IR + motion control misunderstandings, Motion+ will fix that. I've seen pretty much everyone else I know with a Wii have the same difficulties, so it needs addressing, and M+ should do it, ideally.

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warioswoods

55. Posted:

I feel that it's highly likely that was what you did, because I remember that it take only the slightest bend to the end of your fingers to block the IR in that form (in other words relaxing your hand will not work, you have to stiffen your fingers so that they are perfectly straight - that is, if you have a large hand, for a smaller hand doesn't even have this issue - perhaps the Japanese devs never saw a single instance of the problem? ;) ), but I could certainly be wrong. In any case, you're right that, if many people have the problem, there is something that needs to be fixed. I don't believe the 1st party games had even a single instance of 'broken' controls, though, they were just picky in certain ways that might confuse the end user.

(Ignoring the IR is also, by the way, what caused some players to think that the motion bits in MPrime3 were faulty or inconsistent -- they work perfectly, but only on the condition that you keep the remote pointed at the screen, since that's actually how it registers turning a handle, etc, not by the motion sensors alone.)

Twitter is a good place to throw your nonsense.
Wii FC: 8378 9716 1696 8633 || "How can mushrooms give you extra life? Get the green ones." -Lakitu 64
Join us in the epic Nintendo Life Wii Music Thread