Topic: Everything Star Wars discussion thread| How you doing, you old pirate?

If you like Starwars and have seen Snatch, I recommend looking up Snatch Wars. I couldn't stop crackin' up, funniest thing I've seen in years

@gcunit LOL. Do I have to spell it out to you? apparently. Motti doesn't believe the Force is a real thing. Ok, read slowly next time. As for Yoda, that's the same exact point. Yoda is downplaying being a warrior - Luke came to see a warrior, and he's explaining that doesn't make you great, then he turns into a warrior in the prequels. You really are a bit slow. No wonder you liked the prequels. They were made for people like you I guess.

Just kidding though - if you like the prequels and you don't see the thousands of contradictions it's good for you. But you're not going to convince me that Luke's training in Dagobah and Yoda's depiction there lives, coherently, with the depictions of Yoda in the prequels. No way. It's not me saying it. It's millions of Star Wars fans. If you are okay with it, and you feel all that is fine, if you feel the dialogue of Motti makes even a remote sense knowing what we know now about the Clone Wars that happened just the other day where he is considered, if you think that is all fine - good for you. You are in the minority who somehow bought into Lucas' bull facevalue. He utterly failed to convince most of his fans, that's the fact here.

I didn't know about this until now, but back in the 80's Lucas intended to make 3 trilogies: Original, prequels and sequels that would be about Luke's sons, but he gave up on the sequels.

His biographer read some of the ideas Lucas had for the movies and thought they were very interesting. But since it's confidential info we may never know.

I rewatched the Empire Strikes Back and realized something that could be a major plot point of the next film. So obviously stop reading if you have yet to watch Episode VII. Alright, so it V Luke gets his arm cut off by Darth Vader in the climax of the film. What drop along with Luke's right hand? Anakin's original lightsaber. So, I believe that is how the new trilogy is going to reintroduce Cloud City and maybe even Lando. Maybe this is the story that is for another time that short lady was talking about. Lando or a Cloud City citizen found the famous lightsaber and gave it to her. Just a theory.

Wow, relax. No need to insult people's intelligence.

By the way, what happens when Yoda breaks out into "warrior mode" in the prequels? The Jedi LOSE. So he's right, being a warrior alone doesn't make you great. Yoda actually does believe this now that he's a generation removed from the Clone Wars.

I don't know why you're so hellbent on convincing someone not to like something they enjoy. Why does someone else enjoying something bother you so much?

I agree. Not only were the prequels bad Star Wars movies, to me they are some of the worst films I've ever seen.

There's an actual petition floating around on the internet for George Lucas to direct the next film. Clearly those people are all on some sort of illegal mind altering substance.

That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that slaughtering your way through your problems is a Sith way of doing things. But, as @gcunit is saying, Yoda isn't saying he isn't a warrior, or that he hasn't fought, he is saying that being or doing so doesn't make you important. It's like saying that having a university degree doesn't make you intelligent, it's true. Personally speaking, I've met people with degrees who are complete twits. It's not an inconsistency. Also is Yoda telling Obi that Luke is too old to train the truth, or is Yoda really saying that he feels too old to train Luke?

a) Thank you for demonstrating that you can't use 'literally' appropriately.

b) You misinterpret Motti badly. Do you think up until that scene then that Motti thought Vader was just pretending to be able to use the Force, that it was totally made up? Who did Motti think Vader was then, do you reckon? Please share some more of your wisdom with us - I can't believe you've actually suggested this. It's comical. Your comprehension of that scene is embarrassing. Unless you're like... 8, in which case, well done for trying, but if you're older than 8, you're either trolling hard or in need of some remedial English lessons.

Yes - the intelligent people of the world are in the minority. Can be frustrating at times, but it's also incredibly funny watching people like you have a go at things, and assert nonsense as fact. Millions of people like Star Wars. Just because a proportion of them happen to be idiots doesn't make their numpty opinions and interpretations fact.

[sub]Let's be civil with our arguments please
~Santa [/sub]

I've seen Empire at least 5 times, and I don't remember that line at all. I do acknowledge that other stuff don't add up though.

Yes, villains should seem menacing. Not necessarily in appearance (see Gus Fring), but maybe in other manners. Gus is menacing because of his speaking style, his ability to turn on a dime and show his true self, and his lack of expression when doing heinous acts. Dooku doesn't come off as menacing in any manner.

The prequels are generally based on the fall of Rome and the rise of Nazi Germany. In both of those situations, the emergency powers were a result of widespread fear among the populus. That sort of fear isn't portrayed at all. Clones breaks the fundamental rule of "Show don't tell". We are only told there is a separatist army, we are only told that the republic is endanger and in fear. None of those things are shown to us.

It dosen't really, I said that if he enjoyed that crap good for him. I'm sure many little kids enjoyed those movies. But like @bezerker99 and @iKhan concurred, stuff doesn't add up. It's not a matter of opinion. There are hundreds upon hundreds of examples where the prequels are not consistent with the franchise and the OT. Whether that was done on purpose by GL, for spite, out of lunacy, out of laziness or incompetence I do not know, but they are inconsistent garbage. Even this guy @gncuit chose to ignore the other inconsistent examples, because he was out of excuses.

If a work of fiction is inconsistent within itself then whether or not they are badly made (which is true but open to opinion MAYBE) doesn't matter. They are broken. I think at least by the time we are introduced to the Chewbacca and Yoda scenes... By that point.... Even Lucas would admit the prequels were actually a big joke, maybe he lost a dare or something. Nobody can actually take that seriously.

I do think there are merits to the prequels though. If you cut away the fat, the illogical parts, and the terrible acting, they nail the Vader origin story.

Anakin is a brilliant slave boy who only ever knew his mother. He hates being a slave, but makes the best of it. One day two men from the famous Jedi Knights come to his town, and tell him that he is strong with the force. Anakin becomes ecstatic, and works hard to use his talents to earn his freedom. However, he learns that his dear mother can't come with him.

Anakin is initially denied training as a Jedi. Yoda senses Anakin's attachment to his mother and his propensity to fear the loss of loved ones. However, after an incident, the Jedi agree to let Anakin be trained.

Anakin excels with the force, quickly becoming almost as strong as his master Obi-Wan. However, despite all the praise for his accomplishments, Anakin is still often treated like a child, and his cries to visit his mother are unheard. Tormented by the inability to see this mother, Anakin goes to Tatooine, where he witnesses his mother die in his arms. Anakin screams out in agony, unable to control his pain. While on this mission, Anakin falls in love and gets married against Jedi law.

Anakin completes his training and becomes a full Jedi Knight. With all of his accomplishments, he seeks the role of Jedi Master. He is granted a position on the council, but is denied the role of master. At the same time, Anakin's wife shares the news that she is pregnant. Anakin is happy, but then begins to fear that she will die in childbirth. Unwilling to go through the same pain he went through with his mother, he seeks help. He eventually learns from the Chancellor that the dark side may have the power to save his wife. Anakin then realizes the Chancellor is a Sith Lord, and proceeds to turn him in. However, the Jedi again stand in his way, insisting that Palpatine be killed rather than restrained, for he is too dangerous. Anakin intervenes due to his need for the Palpatine to save his wife, but in the process gets a Jedi Master killed. Anakin realizes that the Jedi have only stood in his way, that he can never return to them after that incident, and that he may have the power to alleviate the source of the greatest pain in his life with the Dark Side, and thus succumbs.

After turning to the Dark Side, Anakin must face his old master, who defeats him in a volcano, resulting in severe injury, leading to him needing the Vader suit.

Really quite a tragic story when you cut the crap.

Inconsistencies aren't limited to the prequels.

Don't put words into my mouth,

_{Also Obi-Wan saying Darth Vader killed his father could be viewed as a metaphor, but I digress}

From a certain point of view.

I didn't come here to defend the prequels, per se, but to discuss one particular point you made about the lightsabre battles. You then went on to painfully fabricate two inconsistencies about the films that I've addressed and you have no answer to. Instead you try and move on swiftly hoping no-one notices your f-ups in this thread.

It's not my job to defend everything about the prequels, but the other points you've moved on to aren't exactly cast-iron problems either:

I agree that the R2-D2 flying scene was a bit bizarre, given that it doesn't happen at all in the original trilogy, but it's not actually contradicting anything in the original trilogy - nobody ever said "No, R2's never been able to fly", did they?

The Tantive IV looking a bit different? I have to admit I'd never picked up on this before. Funny that. But perhaps it's because I haven't gone through the films with a fine tooth comb intent on picking out every little discrepancy possible for the sake of it. The extent to which it makes any real difference to the story is mind-numbingly minute.

Leia remembering her mother? Who's to say what she thinks she remembers as her real mother? Memories are not necessarily a representation of past facts - e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/law_in_action/7458536.stm

Owen not recognising C3PO? You don't actually know that he doesn't (if he did, he wouldn't tell Luke), but why would he recognise C3PO? There are several 3PO droids seen in the films, and when Owen sees him in A New Hope he's gold (and Owen doesn't find out his name), whereas the last time he saw him in Attack of the Clones he wasn't gold. So, he would have to recognise a droid that he's not seen for c.20-25 years, that looks pretty much the same as many other droids, by voice alone, in a momentary encounter lasting about 30 seconds. You can insist this is a flagrant contradiction between the original trilogy and prequel trilogy if you like, but it would obviously because you have an axe to grind and not because it casts any real doubt over the validity of the story we're presented with.

Anakin building C3PO? Why couldn't he? He grew up working in the reclaimed metal business - would he not pick up a little expertise? He salvaged C3PO's parts and put him back together. What's so hard to believe? It's most certainly not contradicted by the original trilogy.

I'm more than happy to see and engage in well-informed debate about the merits, or lack of, of the Star Wars films, but if you're going to persist with this bias against the prequels, 10-16 years after they came out, at least do it with a bit of attention to detail and perhaps a modicum of intelligence. And hold your hands up when your misconceptions are highlighted.

What's your beef with the Yoda/Chewbacca stuff?

Sorry Lord Vader, please don't force choke me. I won't fail you again.

Still, murdered is an odd choice of words.

I'll expand on what you've said @gcunit

Could have been downgraded, I doubt it's a necessary piece of hardware. Or they're broken and irreparable. But yes, that scene is odd, but not a deal breaker.

Bail Organa mentioned in RotS that he and his wife wanted a girl, I'd suggest that the person Leia is remembering is her adoptive mother.

Watto was selling functioning pit droids, it's quite possible that part of Anakin's job was to repair those droids for selling. After all, he knows how to fix up a pod racer doesn't he? It wouldn't be unreasonable to think he knows how to fix a few droids designed for a similar job. The force also appears to guide by coincidence. After all, what are the odds that the nearest planet to repair the Falcon would be a city owned by one of Han's acquaintances, let alone one that previously owned said spaceship? To say nothing of all the other coincidences in the OT.

Before ESB, Vader and Luke's father were supposed to be separate characters, but they decided to go with the twist.

I like the prequels and to be honest when I think of Star Wars I think of the Clone Wars Era first. Not because its a strong story arc but I think the Clone Wars storyline has a lot of potential some of which was realized in the animated tv series.

Actually if you read the Leia miniseries (which is cannon) she does remember padme, but this is due to her being Force Sensitive.