Topic: The Chit-Chat Thread

@Heavyarms55 That sounds good, and much appreciated that you have an interest in continuing the conversation, as well! I'll explore Discord options and such when I have a chance - I've been swamped, and despite the text walls, posting here isn't a time consuming endeavor, so it's easy to spend a little time here. Heck I haven't even had time to play games other than creeping through Pokemon at a snail's pace! It's always nice when someone takes an interest in in depth conversations on complex topics in the era of 130 character discourse

Also, agreed entirely on Siri/Alexa/Cortana/Google Home. The idea of an always-listening monitoring device installed in every home is the entire idea of Orwell's Telescreen, and used to be the direct concept of fear for everyone. @Woomy_NNYes It's a little naive to believe the information they show you is all the information they've retained when at least Google has already demonstrated via their WiFi snooping from their Maps/Earth vehicles that they will take any information that is within their means to collect, whenever they can do so legally, and there's no reason to believe any other company thinks any different about it. Google apps let you disable some of that additional collection, however some independent tests on the GPS functionality show that even if you turn it off, it is in fact still transmitting anyway. I.E. some of the "don't spy on me" options are really "let me think you're not spying on me so I can live in blissful ignorance" buttons. In fact by necessity they have more information than that on you - they also keep voice print and profile information, at a minimum, to "better understand speech patterns." - that's not listed in the history but it's algorithmically building profiles, of on nothing else, on your speech patterns.

Think about that - they keep speech pattern and voiceprint profiles on you. That alone is terrifying even if it is a useful tool for the functionality of the device itself.

And in addition one can presume speech patterns of other people heard on mic are processed so it can differentiate. From that they could, at minimum extract how many people live with you, who they are, and how often you have visitors. They could then also potentially identify who those visitors are either by voice print matches, and/or combined information from data pulled from their own phone or devices if it's in proximity to your own or your recording device. They can, and do, pull that just from phones without recording devices as well. But being able to record conversations - legally(!) - is a very powerful tool for them.

They can generally tell who is where, and what the relationship between said people are. Google has openly even admitted that. If someone is having an affair, they likely know before spouses know simply by knowing who is where, with whom, when, where, and how often. And with recording devices, they have access to all conversation involved. Even collected in a "non-identifying way" (which is seldom ever non-identifying when merely combined with other info they also collected in a "non-identifying way") they are still collecting metrics on people's behaviors overall, which will then be used to feed the AIs, marketing pushes, etc.

The device is on, designed to record and transmit, and you've signed a 900 page legal document permitting them to do so at all times. In a world where even here on NL the common thinking among the general populace seems to be "Why wouldn't one use whatever tools they have available to get what they want? Not doing so is just artificially limiting yourself!" (Paraphrasing a theme on many comments on articles on different topics on NL, and also near directly quoting something I heard on a separate Splatoon forum years ago fairly frequently regarding save scumming, unsportsman-like behavior, etc. , it's pretty clear that's the common public thinking in the modern age - I can therefore I should,) I would expect at a MINIMUM they would use every word they have access to via recording, because the people behind those decisions would see using it because they can as an imperative. And that would be their least nefarious use! Just because they collate explicit queries that it performed actions on for you to browse, doesn't mean that's everything they're storing. Burried in your legal contract you signed away the ability for them to record and store in their network, without notice, anything. Anything stored in their network, is theirs, not yours. The legal permission needed only to cover capturing and transmitting for processing. Once its in their network, it's their property to do with as they please.

As for shopping Amazon, they're of course selling your complete browsing profile and purchasing history to everyone willing to pay them for it as well. I tend to browse in private tabs, not logged in, with disabled cookies, and when I can, from redirected IPs, and only use direct methods when actually buying something. Though, admittedly, it's not just from a security perspective, but also that I don't want every random item I browse to influence my search results, recommendations and/or generate those spammy " because you searched for Super Mario Bros Cartoon you might be interested in Teletubbies: The Complete Season 2" for the next 6 months.

The scary part is that people trust them not even on their word but their implied word they're not using all this information they could be using. AFTER they force you to agree to a legal contract that you allow them to use all that information.

If you give me your bank account number, and you trust that I won't rob you blind because I said "I probably don't have a reason to take all your money anyway", and I only said that AFTER I made you sign a contract that I COULD take all your money if I chose to...... would you actually trust I wouldn't take it all? I wouldn't take it, personally. But, I'm not representing 800 shareholders I swore my own legal oath to to get every last penny into their possession I could legally access..... If I had, then I'd HAVE to take all your money....ethically and legally.... That's where we are with data security.

I personally see smart speakers and smart home devices as exactly the same as having a smart phone in your pocket. They all listen for wake words these days so the same fear that people have for Amazon Echo and Google home should realistically also be applied to everyone's phones, all things being equal.

Privacy is obviously a very important topic and different people are comfortable with differing levels of it. It would, however, be great if some of our privacy policies were proactive rather than reactive. Legislation like GDPR in Europe at least is trying to push for a more proactive approach but it's such a vast and complicated legal topic that's gonna take years to iron out.
I work in health research as part of a longitudinal study so we have many many safeguarding procedures in place to protect data and privacy and I'm happy to see private companies finally at least beginning to be put under the same scrutiny. Some of the new privacy features recently released by Google were a direct response to them being fined by the Data Protection Commission. It's just annoying that it takes financial penalties for them to do what should have been available this entire time upon release of such technology.

@alpacatears That's a good point. In theory, you can turn off (or not turn on) the "listening" capabilities of phones. I'd certainly never enable them. But, like my GPS example above, just because you turn it off, doesn't mean it's actually off.... Though at least with a phone, if you're in airplane mode, etc you know it shouldn't be transmitting any data while "home speakers" (aka home microphones, spun as speakers instead) are truly always on. Plus, if phones were as useful a listening device, they wouldn't realistically be selling "home speakers" at all.

But, your point is valid comparing it to phones. That's true. Though it's maybe a really bad indicator as a society that we can say "surveillance device x isn't so bad because it's not so different from surveillance device y." The problem should have been halted when y came out, and the public never should have embraced permanent surveillance in exchange for convenience.

But it also comes down to trust. Most people wouldn't trust individual people listening in, but would trust a faceless multinational corporation. Somehow people tend to think institutions are inherently trustworthy because they're big, despite just being an unaccountable collection of individual people, and despite knowing they themselves would be more than willing to do untrustworthy things if told to by an institution that was paying them. That's a massive failure in the psychology of group behavior.

Does anyone cross country ski? Ever since I burned out on bikes & skiing a few years ago, I struggle with winter. And running is a bore; You never get to coast, slide, get airtime, or go fast. Sure, I could sprint. But we all know a lone person sprinting looks like an idiot (Maybe some sweet mirrored Oakley's could solve that.) I think I understand which equipment to buy, but doe anybody cross country ski and recommend it?
(I understand, on a gaming site, I might get only crickets as a response to that question. I don't know anyone that cross country skis. )

@alpacatears YES! (not sarcasm) I'm so glad Europe has been making legal steps toward privacy and data rights. (Still not sarcasm) Because the US isn't doing enough. I wish the US was that proactive. I really do. (None of this was sarcasm. I'm sincerely enthused.)

@NEStalgia Well, that happens when you confuse me with your "and there shall be no ample spacing to make reading easier" text walls...

And this sentence is confusing, though:
"And not wanting a cold war was the reason I said to not desire a "second superpower for balance".

You may not want a second one, but it's already there, so...
And balance is good, regardless of whether or not either one or both of the parties involved consist of governments with deranged leaders...

And the public only wants war when it's goaded by politics or propaganda. And indeed, like you said, of course also if they themselves don't have to actually partake in said war, keeping it nicely removed from their safe homes, which is what I actually meant with my previous comment. No civilian in his or her right mind is screaming for war.

As for the meddling bit: no offense, obviously, but I wonder how objective people living in America right now can be where that is concerned, because obviously, their army can do no wrong in their eyes, or at least, for most people. While over here, things are looked at from a spectator's point of view, which (while still not completely objective either) makes it a heck of a lot clearer to see at times. From a neutral point of view, we had no business being in Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Irak and so forth and so forth, other than pushing someone's or something's agenda. Lots of good and unfortunately young people died for absolutely nothing, often just because two opposing sides, neither of which had any business in any of these countries, had to stick their noses in, which is a very sad conclusion to come to.

@Tyranexx Haha, no worries, nobody's asking you to become an extrovert. Just be yourself, but also be aware that "yourself" can always become a better or a new and improved version.

@ThanosReXXX It was hard to tell fully before going abroad, but the media brainwashing machine is very effective in the US. Every country has their fair share of propaganda I’m sure. There is something so pervasive in the US though, even from those claiming they are “skeptical” about US goals.

I just know the Trump news era has been especially bad since it’s just become an echo chamber where both sides are more distracted than usual. Washington, New York, LA etc... is just full of journalists and pundits who want to get people into a fevor about things that don’t really matter to them either way. Not all of them mind you. There are good, hardworking people in the media for sure. Just it seems harder to find any that don’t want to talk about Trump’s incoherent tweets for an hour.

I’m an optimist and say it will get better before it gets worse.

Even some democratic candidates have put the US’s bloated military budget on the chopping block. It’s only a matter of time before it becomes a more pervasive national discussion.

Me, thinking to myself:
"Well, that's nice, such a big update to Pokémon Sword and Shield. Practically all one could ever want. That finally oughta stop all the whining about how bad it is and how few Pokémon it has".

What the HECK was I thinking? Of COURSE these so-called "fans" aren't going to stop whining, because no matter how much is added, changed or improved, it'll probably never be enough. And the article already has close to 300 comments. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of all these cry babies...

@NotTelevision Well, the Dutch don't. They are simply far too sober and down to Earth to be mass-brainwashed, and over here, there's also still a kind of "French revolution" spirit, so if governments try to trick or play them, they simply put up blockades and demonstrations everywhere. The other month, farmers duped by the government drove hundreds of tractors to the Dutch parliament building (causing massive traffic jams along the way), and dumped stuff there and put up camp to act out their protest campaign.

In other countries, that would potentially end in mass arrests, but the Dutch don't care, and the government is all about soothing the masses, not about punishing them for speaking their minds.

@ThanosReXXX sigh Sometimes it's as though you TL;DR my posts...... Soon you'll be txting in abbrvtd words lol amirite? He's going full millennial. We're losing him....

I disagree, though, a public can be, and has been, desiring a war (albeit one they personally don't have to be involved in) without being goaded by politics and propaganda. There's a saying that in democratic systems, you don't always get the government you want, but you always get the government you deserve. The government, for all the finger pointing we all do at it, largely because it doesn't represent us, personally, at all, unfortunately DOES tend to be a mirror of the population's desires. Even if it appears contrary to the public's stated desires. A corrupt, abusive government more times than not represents a public that is corrupt and abusive at its core, or is, at minimum entirely indifferent to said corruption and abuse, thus tacitly encouraging it. A public that, given the position and power, would gladly themselves do what said government is doing. It is a reflection of the public. But, again, that's not today's minor "police actions" etc. That's for the big, declared, national level wars and such. We're not under that condition at the current moment.

Oh, you know I don't go with mainstream "taught truths" from media or academia. "No business being in country x", meddling etc....it's a matter of how deep you're looking (which was my point earlier.) Of course all the "meddling", at its surface value, is just meddling, but there's usually more going on than the evening news cliff notes to all this stuff, and it's not sheer jingoism either.

Vietnam and Korea were never about either of those countries at all. They were proxy wars for the Cold War. Fighting North Vietnam (and Cambodia) was about fighting the USSR and their growing sphere of influence and halting it in a big PR show of force (that backfired miserably and was, at best, an ill advised, though also sabotaged domestically - see also "brick layers".) Fighting North Korea was about fighting the USSR and their expansion through China. Those were proxy battles of the Cold War, nothing more or less. Well, ok, Korea was also a bit of cleanup of Japan's WWII mess since we were now taking responsibility for shoring up that front as part of the surrender....

Now that's not an assessment as to if fighting proxy wars as part of a cold war between superpowers is right or wrong, ethically. It's just a statement: That's what happened. I'd though that to be commonly understood now, even if it wasn't at the time, but there you go. That's what those "conflicts" and "meddling" was about. That's the vaunted "balance between superpowers" at work. Though Korea was a special situation since, again, it was primarily Japan that made a mess with that that, both directly in Korea and in creating the situation in China that led to the allies of the USSR taking power (and thus leading to the current situation, thus...technically, it's all Japan's fault, much as I love them...), and cleaning that up could be considered part of cleaning up their WWII aftermath and arguably a responsibility.

Iraq 1 was also a Cold War proxy in the battle for resources and influence while the USSR was also operating in the region. Most of that "meddling" wasn't "meddling" but, right or wrong, facets of the superpowers "balancing" (or so we're calling it.) OTOH While history is, IMO, always open for evaluation, Afghanistan and Iraq 2 are a bit too recent current events to be considered fair game - I'd say only that, again, is part of the current unacknowledged cold war, again, involving resources and economic influence. Not just pure meddling for business reasons. Be it right or wrong.

@NEStalgia Great! Please let me know if/when you have a place! Seems like this conversation will only become more interesting! Reminds me of university!

Watching part 2 of Dracula with dinner. Found a wall chicken, threw it on the grill. It didn’t belong in this world.

@HobbitGamer lol I watched part of it last night. It's COMPLETELY different than part 1. Like the tone and everything.

Certainly a lot to learn from this forum. I’ve laughed, I’ve cried, I’ve scratched my head...

@HobbitGamer Lucky you found a wall chicken. Some jerk came and whipped my wall. I was saving it until later.

@ThanosReXXX For real. Sounds like the Dutch government made an overly bold decision there. I will say that a protest occurring because the government is doing too much to reduce greenhouse gases, is a bit like bizzaro world compared to the US. All in all, there are worse problems to have. 😆

We are quite fond of sustaining our gangsta status.

All this wall chicken talk has me dyyying for one right now. Naturally, I punched over my trash can to see what was inside, but all that fell out was a freshly cooked turkey on a plate and an apple.

Speaking of chicken, here in Indonesia have an instant noodles with ready-2-eat real cooked chicken meat inside the package.

@bimmy-lee question: did you at least steal the turkey and Apple when your buddy needed it more than you? If you're answer is Yes, then you're alright by me...

I completely forgot about the Pokemon Direct this morning, but I've read the news coverage since. Overall, I'm mixed on all the news. I'd love to insert my two cents into one of the comment sections, but 300+ comments kills page loading on my phone and reeks of controversy anyway. I feel sorry for the mods sometimes.

I just got home about an hour ago from watching Richard Jewell. Definitely an interesting movie. While I think some artistic license was used with a few parts, I really hope the media and the mainstream audience take the movie's message to heart. The witch hunt surrounding the guy and any close to him must've been absolutely hellish.

@ThanosReXXX Yep, I've been definitely trying to work on my "self". I've been told that I'm definitely not as withdrawn as I used to be. I'll speak to people if I need to and still keep to myself when I desire, but I'm also no longer that silent mute in the corner that'll say no more to you than "hi" for a little while. XD

@NintendoByNature Stay safe! I've seen where your neck of the woods might get some ice. We're just gonna end up with too much rain here.

@Tyranexx Thanks! We're supposed to have people over Saturday for one of the little NBN's birthday but it's supposed to sleet/snow so we're pushing it to Sunday. I'd take regular rain over sleet any day 😋. Sleets the worst.