How about The Legend of Zelda:Twilight Princess and Resident Evil 4,hmm guys? Those games are basically the same games with new controls,but they were awesome games and good business practice.
This is even worse than the Mario Advance comparison. Twilight Princess was released on Wii first. The GC version is basically an "Old Play Control" edition. Get your facts straight.
I really, really hate to disagree with you (especially when i'm largely agreeing with your overall points, Adam), but even though TP was released for Wii first, the GC version was complete for a year before the Wii version was released... it was held back due to Nintendo wanting to have the Wii version for the Wii's upcoming release, and they held it back another month so the Wii version could get a nice head-start in sales. The Wii version of TP is very much an NPC game even though it's not officially named as such. If the GC version was truly an Old Play Control game, Nintendo would've adapted it from the Wii version, but that's not how it went down.
EDIT: And now you're claiming to "win"? LOL. Now that sounds very familiar, but I'll refrain from saying why since you're sensitive about it. Anyway, discussions aren't games. Also, you've ignored every point brought up against you, and you've clearly been contradicting yourself repeatedly, so even if it were a game, you've won nothing.
BEST THREAD EVER future of NL >:3
[16:43] James: I should learn these site rules more clearly
[16:44] LztheBlehBird: James doesn't know the rules? For shame!!!
I won for now,because AlexSays has ceased to comment. But,I know the debate is not over.
Lol, so you "won" an internet debate. AlexSays got 2 hours to do whatever he wanted while you did this. @Stevie-Very nice.
[21:14] pixelman: I blame fheblackdragon
[21:15] pixelman: That's not an f by the way, it's a fancy t.
[21:15] Objection: Tales of Graces "fancy t"
[21:15] Objection: Tinal Tantasy
[21:15] theblackdragon: lol OB
[21:15] pixelman: OB knows what he's asking about.
Looks like I win,hands down! AlexSays apparently has given up. I have NO idea what his new topic is,but whatever it is,it can't be that important as the lengendary NPC games debate. After all the NPC topic had 10 PAGES deleted because it turned into the flaming wars.
So a thread is only important if it leads to idiots flaming? This thread is half-important already! I also didn't know that to "win", you just have to annoy your opponent with an old topic and have them go on to more productive endeavors while you hold the minority opinion. *And not to be a jerk but because it bugs me, the phrase is usually "eye for an eye;" no one says "tooth for a tooth" by itself.
So unless you have proof that these games are taking away from the development of new games, which I would be glad to see, you can't hate on these games unless you just don't like the game.
I can't hate a game for it already being released and playable on the system its rereleasing for? Alright, I'm gonna go stop. Good thing I have people like you to tell me what I can and can't like.
I'm not trying to annoy AlexSays,if he does not want to debate,I'm not forcing him to. Flaming topic? trust me,I will NOT let that happen. Hey,you do what you want I'm not a dictator,but that goes for AlexSays too! AlexSays can't tell people not to buy NPC titles,just the same as I canno tell people to buy NPC titles or do not buy Pong Toss or other games. This is discussion,not flaming or bossing people around. I'm smart enough NOT to start flaming topics,ok?
Hey,you do what you want I'm not a dictator,but that goes for AlexSays too! AlexSays can't tell people not to buy NPC titles,just the same as I canno tell people to buy NPC titles or do not buy Pong Toss or other games. This is discussion,not flaming or bossing people around. I'm smart enough NOT to start flaming topics,ok?
I appreciate that you say that, but the way you have addressed Alex in your previous posts sounds very bossy and close to flaming. To your credit, you've been fairly cordial to everyone else so far.
[21:14] pixelman: I blame fheblackdragon
[21:15] pixelman: That's not an f by the way, it's a fancy t.
[21:15] Objection: Tales of Graces "fancy t"
[21:15] Objection: Tinal Tantasy
[21:15] theblackdragon: lol OB
[21:15] pixelman: OB knows what he's asking about.
So unless you have proof that these games are taking away from the development of new games, which I would be glad to see, you can't hate on these games unless you just don't like the game.
I can't hate a game for it already being released and playable on the system its rereleasing for? Alright, I'm gonna go stop. Good thing I have people like you to tell me what I can and can't like.
Unless these games are stopping the development of other games, I find no reason why you should hate these games becasue they re-made them on the wii. It's just adding, without taking anything away. But if you just don't like the game that's fine, but to hate a game just because they re-made it on another system doesn't make sense. Your hating something becasue they made two of it, not becasue the game itself is bad.
@ SuperSonic1990 See my first two or three posts for obvious contradictions that you haven't responded to. For instance, the stuff about Wii Fit Plus, Mario Advance, etc. I'm not going to repeat myself because you didn't read the first time. I've already gone through that enough with Eugene, and it's tiresome.
@ Black Dragon From a consumer perspective, the Wii game is the first game available. There was little reason for Wii owners to wait for the GC version. Who has the patience for that? When we want a Zelda game, we want it now.
The point is, the Gamecube game was not available when the Wii version was released, so of course it sold well. Plus, it was an extremely hyped game. People bought it without trying it first. If it weren't a Zelda game, most would have waited for reviews, and most people do prefer the Gamecube version because the Wii version adds only: Widescreen (nice, but who cares), a fishing mini-game, and wrist-destroying waggle controls that feel nothing like swinging a sword.
I bought the Wii version, but if both had been released at the same time and I'd known better, I would have gotten the GC version. Not that it matters. Both were the same price, which isn't the case for New Play Control games. While I do think Twilight Princess: Wii Edition was a really lazy effort, just as the NPC games were, it's not the same.
Hey,you do what you want I'm not a dictator,but that goes for AlexSays too! AlexSays can't tell people not to buy NPC titles,just the same as I canno tell people to buy NPC titles or do not buy Pong Toss or other games. This is discussion,not flaming or bossing people around. I'm smart enough NOT to start flaming topics,ok?
I appreciate that you say that, but the way you have addressed Alex in your previous posts sounds very bossy and close to flaming. To your credit, you've been fairly cordial to everyone else so far.
agreeing with this too. to be honest, when this thread was first started, i thought it was a joke between the two of them with some for-fun 'arguments' being flung around, but SuperSonic1990, you seem to be taking all of this mighty seriously. if we can't have multiple joke threads about Adam and Chicken Brutus and the like, do we really need multiple serious NPC-debate threads? :/
BEST THREAD EVER future of NL >:3
[16:43] James: I should learn these site rules more clearly
[16:44] LztheBlehBird: James doesn't know the rules? For shame!!!
@ObjectionBlaster-I sound aggressive,because AlexSays is agressive and you have to respond agressiveness with agressiveness. Contradiction? No,but AlexSays sounds like he wanted to debate. Sorry,I thought you were serious. I coulldn't tell if you were serious or not. So,pretty much the older generation hates NPC games,but we,the younger people [I'm 18] welcome the NPC games. Intresting...
In the trash can. I didn't realize how long it was while I was typing thanks to this tiny Quick Reply field on these silly forums.
I'll abbreviate it and post it soon since Kizzi requested a response. By the way, Super Sonic, I hope it's clear that I really don't care what you think -- and I mean that in a good way! I'm just shooting the bull because I am too tired from a long night of work to do anything productive. If you like NPC games, that's great. Doesn't affect me. I just enjoy sparring with words. If I make a joke or two in your direction, that's just how I roll.
@TheBlackDragon-Actually,it is a combination of the two. While I like jokes to be in this topic,I would like to debate with AlexSays,seeing I have never debated with him. So,we wil mix the 2 up together,and have a light-hearted debate but be serious at the same time.
In the trash can. I didn't realize how long it was while I was typing thanks to this tiny Quick Reply field on these silly forums.
I'll abbreviate it and post it soon since Kizzi requested a response. By the way, Super Sonic, I hope it's clear that I really don't care what you think -- and I mean that in a good way! I'm just shooting the bull because I am too tired from a long night of work to do anything productive. If you like NPC games, that's great. Doesn't affect me. I just enjoy sparring with words. If I make a joke or two in your direction, that's just how I roll.
Point taken and I understand. That's how I roll too. We need real discussion instead of topics like what is your favorite poptart by Danny August.
About development time: Miyamoto did say the Pikmin 3 team is understaffed and moving slowly because of this. I personally wish whoever worked on the Pikmin NPCs had been helping them instead of screwing on games that you can already play on Wii.
But also, aside from development time, there are other reasons not to like the NPC approach. NPCs take up release slots. Nintendo has already said Galaxy 2 is about ready but won't be released this year because it already has a Mario game for the year. Similarly, they aren't going to release games to compete with the NPC games. So if they continue releasing NPCs, that would mean less new games, regardless of if they take up development time or not.
And lastly, the games are already available on Wii, and for less cost. I have played Prime 3, and the controls weren't bad. But neither were the Prime 1 and 2 controls. They are both available for dirt cheap. Same goes for the Pikmin games. They play quite well already. I never had a problem with analog stick control. Nintendo should just save these minor improvements for the sequels so that everyone can have a reason to enjoy them, rather than leaving their older audience in the cold.
@ Super Sonic Then start a new discussion, please. This one is quite old and going nowhere. AlexSays has every reason not to want to participate again. And I'm quickly beginning to feel the same way. Plus, I think sleep is more appealing at the moment than reliving a discussion that had already gone on much too long.
So,pretty much the older generation hates NPC games,but we,the younger people [I'm 18] welcome the NPC games. Intresting...
Well, I'm 28, and while I'm not turning backflips over NPC, I don't mind it. In fact, I intend to buy the Metroid Prime collection and maybe, eventually, Jungle Beat or Chibi Robo.
Why would I buy games I could already buy in their GC versions? I can't say for sure (apart from the weak, but honest, excuse that I hate having to dig out my old GC controllers), but I've always been one of those guys who gravitates toward special editions. I'll upgrade a DVD if I love the film and am interested in seeing the new content. I'll re-buy a favorite album if it's remastered with bonus tracks and restored artwork.
There's nothing wrong with the practice. The market exists and it's not limited to video games. Would everybody who bought My Generation shell out for a second double-disc version? No, of course not. Would everybody who owns a Simon and Garfunkel album buy it a second time just for the tacked-on live version of "Feelin' Groovy?"
No.
Not everyone.
But some people do. And that's okay. That's their decision.
Take it on a case by case basis. If you love the product and WANT to buy the upgrade, then by all means, indulge yourself and buy what you want.
If you've never experienced the product in the first place and want to START with the upgrade, then nobody can take that away from you either.
Follow your heart. To thine own self be true. Dig yuhself.
From a consumer perspective, the Wii game is the first game available. There was little reason for Wii owners to wait for the GC version. Who has the patience for that? When we want a Zelda game, we want it now.
from a developmental standpoint, though, TP is a GC game updated with controls for the Wii. i'm not arguing with your sales numbers or Nintendo's underlying strategy, i'm arguing with the 'Old Play Control' name. :3 If TP had awesome, natural-feeling Wii controls that had been present from the ground up, I wouldn't have commented.
BEST THREAD EVER future of NL >:3
[16:43] James: I should learn these site rules more clearly
[16:44] LztheBlehBird: James doesn't know the rules? For shame!!!
Oh, right, I can see how that was misleading, but I call it Old Play Control because it is the same control scheme as Wind Waker, which is older than Twilight Princess. Traditional Play Control would be more clear, but less amusing. Way to spoil all my fun!
About development time: Miyamoto did say the Pikmin 3 team is understaffed and moving slowly because of this. I personally wish whoever worked on the Pikmin NPCs had been helping them instead of screwing on games that you can already play on Wii.
But also, aside from development time, there are other reasons not to like the NPC approach. NPCs take up release slots. Nintendo has already said Galaxy 2 is about ready but won't be released this year because it already has a Mario game for the year. Similarly, they aren't going to release games to compete with the NPC games. So if they continue releasing NPCs, that would mean less new games, regardless of if they take up development time or not.
And lastly, the games are already available on Wii, and for less cost. I have played Prime 3, and the controls weren't bad. But neither were the Prime 1 and 2 controls. They are both available for dirt cheap. Same goes for the Pikmin games. They play quite well already. I never had a problem with analog stick control. Nintendo should just save these minor improvements for the sequels so that everyone can have a reason to enjoy them, rather than leaving their older audience in the cold.
I heard that the Pikmin 3 team was small,but I think they are moving slow NOT because of the NPC games. True,but some people prefer the new controls over the old controls on the Metroid Prime series. But,they are more improvements over controls in Pikmin,such as the ability to save every day and go back and redo your day if you mess up. That's an IMPOVEMENT. Watch out Adam,Chicken Brutus is here!
@ Adam: Fair enough. I see your point. I don't really get the whole taking up the release slots, though? Nintendo could release any game they want whenever right? or am I missing something. And about the mario game already being released, weren't they talking about new super mario bros wii being the one coming out this year? and about price, I guess it just comes done to whether you like the wii controls or not. But atleast we know, somewhat, that these games aren't taking the place of new games, but as you pointed out, are just delaying the release date, which is unfortunate. but for me personally, I have plenty of other games to play, including NPC games that I never got my hands, but that can't be said for everyone.
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Topic: SuperSonic1990 VS AlexSays-The Fight of the Century
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