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Topic: SuperSonic1990 VS AlexSays-The Fight of the Century

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Knux

61. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

Oh,so you're guys going to compare me to Eugene Wrayburn still? Just for the record,I disagree with Eugene Wrayburn. I'm not unresonable like him,and he had some issues with me. So stop,because I have NOT compared you guys to him or everybody else. But,I CAN if you guys keep it up.

Don't say "guys." It was only me, and it was just a joke. But the fact that you continue to ignore every point I've made and every contradiction you've made does create a somewhat similar picture, just without all the non-sequitur and accusations of being emotional.

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

Tooth for tooth,means if somebody does something to you,do it back at them. AlexSays called Adam,I called Chicken Brutus,simple.

I know what the phrase means, but you used it completely out of context. Hint: Quotes are helpful and easy to use.

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

I think Nintendo wiil CONTINUE to release NPC games year by year. Because,NPC games are selling well. NPC games have stopped? I don't think so. Metroid Prime 1 and 2 will be released in the Metroid Prime Trilogy.

No one said they have stopped. I just said we aren't getting nearly as many of them as Japan is, and if they are truly selling like hot cakes, this would not be the case.

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

How about The Legend of Zelda:Twilight Princess and Resident Evil 4,hmm guys? Those games are basically the same games with new controls,but they were awesome games and good business practice.

This is even worse than the Mario Advance comparison. Twilight Princess was released on Wii first. The GC version is basically an "Old Play Control" edition. Get your facts straight. Plus, the GC version actually sold very, very well even after the Wii version was released, so apparently not everyone liked the mundane waggle controls added for the Wii. Even Nintendo has openly said that TP had disappointing sales. If the GC version had been released first, or even simultaneously, I doubt the Wii version would have sold well at all. Most prefer the traditional controls. Shaking a controller randomly to swing a sword is not revolutionary.

RE4 did do well, but that isn't at all relevant. It's a different company, and Wii already has one new RE and another in the works. Plus they were working on 5 at the same time for other systems. It is difficult to develop such games for Wii at the same time since it is so behind in graphical capabilities. Nintendo doesn't have this problem though because they only develop for one console.

EDIT: And now you're claiming to "win"? LOL. Now that's seriously Wrayburnesque. It's not a game. Also, you've ignored every point brought up against you, and you've clearly been contradicting yourself repeatedly.

Sorry,about that. Okay,so the Eugene Wrayburn thing was a joke,but you sounded pretty serious. Contradictions? If I contradicted,it must be without knowing. Show me my contradictions,and show me what points I have ignored. Now,I thought Twilight Princess sold real well,show me some sales figures for proof. I think the bad sales were in Japan,but we don't live in Japan do we? Capcom will still release more Resident Evil games that was on previous systems,including the Gamecube Resident Evil games. My point is that you and AlexSays hate NPC games,but they improve the games to the point they are better then before. Hey,they helped out to the point that the Wii sold 25 million systems. People are going to go with what they see on the shelves,not what critics or what you guys say. I think NPC Mario Tennis sold like hotcakes too. If I listen to you guys,I will be buying a Playstation 3 next,which has a very medicore libary. Emotional? I have a sense of humor while I debate. Eugene is too serious. Show me where I act like Eugene,and I'll show you that you're wrong.
I won for now,because AlexSays has ceased to comment. But,I know the debate is not over.

Edited on by Knux

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Stevie

62. Posted:

It is now

Untitled

This is good

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theblackdragon

63. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

How about The Legend of Zelda:Twilight Princess and Resident Evil 4,hmm guys? Those games are basically the same games with new controls,but they were awesome games and good business practice.

This is even worse than the Mario Advance comparison. Twilight Princess was released on Wii first. The GC version is basically an "Old Play Control" edition. Get your facts straight.

I really, really hate to disagree with you (especially when i'm largely agreeing with your overall points, Adam), but even though TP was released for Wii first, the GC version was complete for a year before the Wii version was released... it was held back due to Nintendo wanting to have the Wii version for the Wii's upcoming release, and they held it back another month so the Wii version could get a nice head-start in sales. The Wii version of TP is very much an NPC game even though it's not officially named as such. If the GC version was truly an Old Play Control game, Nintendo would've adapted it from the Wii version, but that's not how it went down.

weirdadam wrote:

EDIT: And now you're claiming to "win"? LOL. Now that sounds very familiar, but I'll refrain from saying why since you're sensitive about it.
Anyway, discussions aren't games. Also, you've ignored every point brought up against you, and you've clearly been contradicting yourself repeatedly, so even if it were a game, you've won nothing.

agreeing with this. :/

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

I won for now,because AlexSays has ceased to comment. But,I know the debate is not over.

there is no 'winning' or 'losing' here, there's just one side moving on to do something else before the other.

Edited on by theblackdragon

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Objection

64. Posted:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

I won for now,because AlexSays has ceased to comment. But,I know the debate is not over.

Lol, so you "won" an internet debate. AlexSays got 2 hours to do whatever he wanted while you did this. :P
@Stevie-Very nice. :D

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Knux

65. Posted:

Objection_Blaster wrote:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

Looks like I win,hands down! :D AlexSays apparently has given up. I have NO idea what his new topic is,but whatever it is,it can't be that important as the lengendary NPC games debate. :P After all the NPC topic had 10 PAGES deleted because it turned into the flaming wars.

So a thread is only important if it leads to idiots flaming? This thread is half-important already! ;) I also didn't know that to "win", you just have to annoy your opponent with an old topic and have them go on to more productive endeavors while you hold the minority opinion.
*And not to be a jerk but because it bugs me, the phrase is usually "eye for an eye;" no one says "tooth for a tooth" by itself.

Kizzi wrote:

So unless you have proof that these games are taking away from the development of new games, which I would be glad to see, you can't hate on these games unless you just don't like the game. ;)

I can't hate a game for it already being released and playable on the system its rereleasing for? Alright, I'm gonna go stop. Good thing I have people like you to tell me what I can and can't like. :P

I'm not trying to annoy AlexSays,if he does not want to debate,I'm not forcing him to.
Flaming topic? trust me,I will NOT let that happen.
Hey,you do what you want I'm not a dictator,but that goes for AlexSays too!
AlexSays can't tell people not to buy NPC titles,just the same as I canno tell people to buy NPC titles or do not buy Pong Toss or other games. This is discussion,not flaming or bossing people around. I'm smart enough NOT to start flaming topics,ok?

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Knux

66. Posted:

@Stevie-LOL

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Knux

67. Posted:

Where did Adam's new post go?

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Objection

68. Posted:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

I'm not trying to annoy AlexSays,if he does not want to debate,I'm not forcing him to.

Isn't that kind of contradicting the whole "I automatically 'win' if he doesn't debate" claim you made?

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

Flaming topic? trust me,I will NOT let that happen.

Looks like you missed the joke.

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

Hey,you do what you want I'm not a dictator,but that goes for AlexSays too!
AlexSays can't tell people not to buy NPC titles,just the same as I canno tell people to buy NPC titles or do not buy Pong Toss or other games. This is discussion,not flaming or bossing people around. I'm smart enough NOT to start flaming topics,ok?

I appreciate that you say that, but the way you have addressed Alex in your previous posts sounds very bossy and close to flaming. To your credit, you've been fairly cordial to everyone else so far.

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Kizzi

69. Posted:

Objection_Blaster wrote:

Kizzi wrote:

So unless you have proof that these games are taking away from the development of new games, which I would be glad to see, you can't hate on these games unless you just don't like the game. ;)

I can't hate a game for it already being released and playable on the system its rereleasing for? Alright, I'm gonna go stop. Good thing I have people like you to tell me what I can and can't like. :P

Unless these games are stopping the development of other games, I find no reason why you should hate these games becasue they re-made them on the wii. It's just adding, without taking anything away. But if you just don't like the game that's fine, but to hate a game just because they re-made it on another system doesn't make sense. Your hating something becasue they made two of it, not becasue the game itself is bad.

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Adam

70. Posted:

@ SuperSonic1990
See my first two or three posts for obvious contradictions that you haven't responded to. For instance, the stuff about Wii Fit Plus, Mario Advance, etc. I'm not going to repeat myself because you didn't read the first time. I've already gone through that enough with Eugene, and it's tiresome.

@ Black Dragon
From a consumer perspective, the Wii game is the first game available. There was little reason for Wii owners to wait for the GC version. Who has the patience for that? When we want a Zelda game, we want it now. :)

The point is, the Gamecube game was not available when the Wii version was released, so of course it sold well. Plus, it was an extremely hyped game. People bought it without trying it first. If it weren't a Zelda game, most would have waited for reviews, and most people do prefer the Gamecube version because the Wii version adds only: Widescreen (nice, but who cares), a fishing mini-game, and wrist-destroying waggle controls that feel nothing like swinging a sword.

I bought the Wii version, but if both had been released at the same time and I'd known better, I would have gotten the GC version. Not that it matters. Both were the same price, which isn't the case for New Play Control games. While I do think Twilight Princess: Wii Edition was a really lazy effort, just as the NPC games were, it's not the same.

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theblackdragon

71. Posted:

Objection_Blaster wrote:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

Hey,you do what you want I'm not a dictator,but that goes for AlexSays too!
AlexSays can't tell people not to buy NPC titles,just the same as I canno tell people to buy NPC titles or do not buy Pong Toss or other games. This is discussion,not flaming or bossing people around. I'm smart enough NOT to start flaming topics,ok?

I appreciate that you say that, but the way you have addressed Alex in your previous posts sounds very bossy and close to flaming. To your credit, you've been fairly cordial to everyone else so far.

agreeing with this too. to be honest, when this thread was first started, i thought it was a joke between the two of them with some for-fun 'arguments' being flung around, but SuperSonic1990, you seem to be taking all of this mighty seriously. if we can't have multiple joke threads about Adam and Chicken Brutus and the like, do we really need multiple serious NPC-debate threads? :/

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Knux

72. Posted:

@ObjectionBlaster-I sound aggressive,because AlexSays is agressive and you have to respond agressiveness with agressiveness. :P Contradiction? No,but AlexSays sounds like he wanted to debate. Sorry,I thought you were serious. I coulldn't tell if you were serious or not.
So,pretty much the older generation hates NPC games,but we,the younger people [I'm 18] welcome the NPC games. Intresting...

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Adam

73. Posted:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

Where did Adam's new post go?

In the trash can. I didn't realize how long it was while I was typing thanks to this tiny Quick Reply field on these silly forums. :D

I'll abbreviate it and post it soon since Kizzi requested a response. By the way, Super Sonic, I hope it's clear that I really don't care what you think -- and I mean that in a good way! I'm just shooting the bull because I am too tired from a long night of work to do anything productive. If you like NPC games, that's great. Doesn't affect me. I just enjoy sparring with words. If I make a joke or two in your direction, that's just how I roll. ;)

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Knux

74. Posted:

@TheBlackDragon-Actually,it is a combination of the two. While I like jokes to be in this topic,I would like to debate with AlexSays,seeing I have never debated with him. So,we wil mix the 2 up together,and have a light-hearted debate but be serious at the same time. :D

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Knux

75. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

Where did Adam's new post go?

In the trash can. I didn't realize how long it was while I was typing thanks to this tiny Quick Reply field on these silly forums. :D

I'll abbreviate it and post it soon since Kizzi requested a response. By the way, Super Sonic, I hope it's clear that I really don't care what you think -- and I mean that in a good way! I'm just shooting the bull because I am too tired from a long night of work to do anything productive. If you like NPC games, that's great. Doesn't affect me. I just enjoy sparring with words. If I make a joke or two in your direction, that's just how I roll. ;)

Point taken and I understand. That's how I roll too. We need real discussion instead of topics like what is your favorite poptart by Danny August.

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Adam

76. Posted:

@ Kizzi

About development time: Miyamoto did say the Pikmin 3 team is understaffed and moving slowly because of this. I personally wish whoever worked on the Pikmin NPCs had been helping them instead of screwing on games that you can already play on Wii.

But also, aside from development time, there are other reasons not to like the NPC approach. NPCs take up release slots. Nintendo has already said Galaxy 2 is about ready but won't be released this year because it already has a Mario game for the year. Similarly, they aren't going to release games to compete with the NPC games. So if they continue releasing NPCs, that would mean less new games, regardless of if they take up development time or not.

And lastly, the games are already available on Wii, and for less cost. I have played Prime 3, and the controls weren't bad. But neither were the Prime 1 and 2 controls. They are both available for dirt cheap. Same goes for the Pikmin games. They play quite well already. I never had a problem with analog stick control. Nintendo should just save these minor improvements for the sequels so that everyone can have a reason to enjoy them, rather than leaving their older audience in the cold.

@ Super Sonic
Then start a new discussion, please. This one is quite old and going nowhere. AlexSays has every reason not to want to participate again. And I'm quickly beginning to feel the same way. Plus, I think sleep is more appealing at the moment than reliving a discussion that had already gone on much too long.

Edited on by Adam

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Philip_J_Reed

77. Posted:

SuperSonic1990 wrote:

So,pretty much the older generation hates NPC games,but we,the younger people [I'm 18] welcome the NPC games. Intresting...

Well, I'm 28, and while I'm not turning backflips over NPC, I don't mind it. In fact, I intend to buy the Metroid Prime collection and maybe, eventually, Jungle Beat or Chibi Robo.

Why would I buy games I could already buy in their GC versions? I can't say for sure (apart from the weak, but honest, excuse that I hate having to dig out my old GC controllers), but I've always been one of those guys who gravitates toward special editions. I'll upgrade a DVD if I love the film and am interested in seeing the new content. I'll re-buy a favorite album if it's remastered with bonus tracks and restored artwork.

There's nothing wrong with the practice. The market exists and it's not limited to video games. Would everybody who bought My Generation shell out for a second double-disc version? No, of course not. Would everybody who owns a Simon and Garfunkel album buy it a second time just for the tacked-on live version of "Feelin' Groovy?"

No.

Not everyone.

But some people do. And that's okay. That's their decision.

Take it on a case by case basis. If you love the product and WANT to buy the upgrade, then by all means, indulge yourself and buy what you want.

If you've never experienced the product in the first place and want to START with the upgrade, then nobody can take that away from you either.

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theblackdragon

78. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

From a consumer perspective, the Wii game is the first game available. There was little reason for Wii owners to wait for the GC version. Who has the patience for that? When we want a Zelda game, we want it now. :)

from a developmental standpoint, though, TP is a GC game updated with controls for the Wii. i'm not arguing with your sales numbers or Nintendo's underlying strategy, i'm arguing with the 'Old Play Control' name. :3 If TP had awesome, natural-feeling Wii controls that had been present from the ground up, I wouldn't have commented.

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Adam

79. Posted:

Oh, right, I can see how that was misleading, but I call it Old Play Control because it is the same control scheme as Wind Waker, which is older than Twilight Princess. Traditional Play Control would be more clear, but less amusing. Way to spoil all my fun!

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Knux

80. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

@ Kizzi

About development time: Miyamoto did say the Pikmin 3 team is understaffed and moving slowly because of this. I personally wish whoever worked on the Pikmin NPCs had been helping them instead of screwing on games that you can already play on Wii.

But also, aside from development time, there are other reasons not to like the NPC approach. NPCs take up release slots. Nintendo has already said Galaxy 2 is about ready but won't be released this year because it already has a Mario game for the year. Similarly, they aren't going to release games to compete with the NPC games. So if they continue releasing NPCs, that would mean less new games, regardless of if they take up development time or not.

And lastly, the games are already available on Wii, and for less cost. I have played Prime 3, and the controls weren't bad. But neither were the Prime 1 and 2 controls. They are both available for dirt cheap. Same goes for the Pikmin games. They play quite well already. I never had a problem with analog stick control. Nintendo should just save these minor improvements for the sequels so that everyone can have a reason to enjoy them, rather than leaving their older audience in the cold.

I heard that the Pikmin 3 team was small,but I think they are moving slow NOT because of the NPC games.
True,but some people prefer the new controls over the old controls on the Metroid Prime series. But,they are more improvements over controls in Pikmin,such as the ability to save every day and go back and redo your day if you mess up. That's an IMPOVEMENT. Watch out Adam,Chicken Brutus is here! :P

Edited on by Knux

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