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Topic: Sooo Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize this week

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41. Posted:

Obama has made a lot of promises and got a lot of people's hopes up. Let's hope he can deliver. I like the guy, but I think he's bitten off way more than he can chew. And this Nobel Peace Prize just heaps even more expectations on a man who already had more than enough. I actually feel sorry for the guy in a way.

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Stuffgamer1

42. Posted:

@Chicken Brutus: It was the first site that popped up when I Googled the term to get you a better-written definition. If you read earlier on the page, it actually says that the term shouldn't really exist, as it's the same thing as racism. Only real reason it DOES exist is that socially, racism is understood to be whites treating everybody else like crap...therefore exalting anyone else must be the reverse of that!

So Obama's the first black president...WHY SHOULD ANYONE CARE? He's a man...same as any other man. And yet it's fact that a good number of people voted for him simply because he's black, and they couldn't tell you one little thing about his politics (and don't tell me that's not true...my church is full of them). I say it's time to stop paying any attention to anyone's race. It simply doesn't matter.

@Turbo Genesis 64: Did Bush Jr. GET a Nobel Peace Prize? I sure hope not... But his not deserving one has nothing to do with whether or not Obama deserves it.

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Adam

43. Posted:

Stuffgamer1 wrote:

So Obama's the first black president...WHY SHOULD ANYONE CARE? He's a man...same as any other man. And yet it's fact that a good number of people voted for him simply because he's black, and they couldn't tell you one little thing about his politics (and don't tell me that's not true...my church is full of them). I say it's time to stop paying any attention to anyone's race. It simply doesn't matter.

And yet, some people who have suffered and continue to suffer innumerable years of repression do care. Who'd've thunk? You don't think having someone virtually guaranteed to take an interest in your people is something worth voting for?

Being black is not solely what got the man in office or else we'd have seen a black president long before. African-American candidates have been in primaries before, and Obama was not the only black candidate for this term. And yet, McKinney didn't place second... Hmm...

@Corbie
I agree. The prize is going to end up being a curse in disguise, only inflating expectations even further beyond which he can dream of satisfying.

Edited on by Adam

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Philip_J_Reed

44. Posted:

Stuffgamer1 wrote:

@Chicken Brutus: It was the first site that popped up when I Googled the term to get you a better-written definition. If you read earlier on the page, it actually says that the term shouldn't really exist

I know. The best definition you could find is one that doesn't even believe it's a real term. You might want to think this one through a little.

Stuffgamer1 wrote:

Only real reason it DOES exist is that socially, racism is understood to be whites treating everybody else like crap...therefore exalting anyone else must be the reverse of that!

No. This is a very dangerous--and unfathomable--perspective. "Racism" does not mean whites suppressing blacks. That is a very narrow-minded, culture-locked way of looking at it (which is why you may want to re-think your stance, as I don't believe you to be either of those things), and in doing so you remove all sorts of historical atrocities from the argument. Wasn't apartheid racism? The Armenian genocide? The wholesale sublimation and stamping out of Native American culture?

Racism is a broader term than you're giving it credit for, and nobody who's given it a moment's thought would define racism as "white vs. black." If they did such a thing, and therefore defined "black vs white" as reverse racism, what would they call a similar conflict in the far east? "Non-racism?"

Stuffgamer1 wrote:

So Obama's the first black president...WHY SHOULD ANYONE CARE?

That's a whole other argument, of course, but nobody's saying that you--Stuffgamer1--needs to care. If you don't, you don't, and you can live your life and nobody will bother you. The problem is that "first black president," in your words, is a "perfect example" of racism. Howso?

Not caring about something is very different than calling it racist.

He is the first black president. That's not racist. Kennedy was the first Catholic president, the Roosevelts were the first fraternal presidents, and Taft was the first morbidly obese president. Do you have to care? Of course not. You can dismiss it as trivial, and I'd defend your right to do so. (Whether or not I agree that it's trivial.) But it's not racist.

Stuffgamer1 wrote:

it's fact that a good number of people voted for him simply because he's black, and they couldn't tell you one little thing about his politics (and don't tell me that's not true...my church is full of them).

Yes, that is racist. Voting for somebody because he/she is of a certain race is racist, just as voting against them for the same reason would be. There's no reverse about it.

Edited on by Philip_J_Reed

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Stuffgamer1

45. Posted:

@Adam: I'll admit being black wasn't the ONLY thing that got him elected...if it was, Jesse Jackson would've pulled it off before I was born! Obama also spouted lots of hyperbole he can't possibly live up to...even worse than your average election, IMO (though I do admit my experience in such areas is relatively limited, it certain SEEMS that way from what I do know).

And don't think I don't sympathize with those who actually ARE still being repressed...it's inexcusable. I hate the very fact that ANYONE did at ANY time promote racism for ANY reason. But my view of the solution is to stop it right off...everybody just stop being racist entirely, both pro- and anti-. Integrate history without insisting on pointing out EVERY time a special feat was performed by a BLACK person. And no, that doesn't actually mean removing the entire concept of racism from history. The idea is to teach our kids that the people of the past were all stupid, and we aren't going to be like that. After all, just look at really little children...they play regardless of race. Racism has to be TAUGHT!

EDIT @Chicken Brutus: I didn't say racism is white vs. black. I said it's generally socially viewed as white vs. everybody else. Yes, there are exceptions, but that's the main context in America. I also agree that reverse racism doesn't entirely make sense as a term...I only used it because it SEEMS to make sense until it's dissected as we just have. Force of habit, you might say.

It's not the fact that Obama IS the first black president that bothers me...it's the fact that he has been widely heralded as such. I sincerely doubt that Kennedy was heralded for being Catholic, or Taft for being fat. There MAY have been some news about the Roosevelt's, but that doesn't seem terribly newsworthy to me and even if it DID get some news, it definitely wasn't as much as Obama has had (and I believe that's not ONLY because this is the media age and that wasn't).

Edited on by Stuffgamer1

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clicketyclick

46. Posted:

@Turbo: I'm not sure what you're getting at with this Bush Jr stuff. I don't think anyone's arguing that he should have gotten a Nobel Prize. And lo and behold, he hasn't gotten one. No problems here.

Sure, he's the first black president and he's made some nice speeches. Give him an award and some recognition for that if you like, but give him an appropriate one. Giving a man a lifetime achievement award for promoting peace because he's the first black president of the USA and of the Harvard Law Review is a bit of a non sequitur.

You see, while he was giving nice speeches, other people were actually doing things to promote peace, human rights, democracy, freedom, etc. And they have all paid dearly for it. That prize money and that recognition could have done wonders for their cause. I mean, for example, Shirin Ebadi, a past winner, used to be targeted by the government for assassination, but now the government can't kill her because of the international recognition. Further, she can use the $1.4 million to further her advocacy for Iranian women and children's rights. That recognition and money could have gone to a better candidate than someone who already holds power to change things (and hasn't done so yet.)

Whether or not he has inspired "hope" across the world, that's not useful in any sense except to build up expectations. So he has managed to build up expectations from the international community? Is that really something that deserves the peace prize?

(And the effectiveness of his message has largely been limited to the developed, Western world. They're not as enthusiastic about him in the Middle East. As Kuwaiti politician Saad al-Ajmi said of Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize: "good intentions are something and good deeds are something else.")

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Adam

47. Posted:

"Everybody just stop being racist entirely."
I want to live in this fantasy world where someone can just say that and it happens. But fact is, people want to have role models who are like them, and some do want to know that it was a black guy and not a white guy who invented the peanut. (Kidding, kidding.) So pointing out when someone of a minority race does something first in history is a good feeling for people of that race. Whether or not it is a reason to be elected is one thing, but it is well worth noting when you've had countless white presidents and not a single other race represented in a country that was built by immigrants and the bones of natives.

"Racism has to be TAUGHT!"
You might want to reconsider this slogan... :D

EDIT: But this is off-topic, nevermind.

Edited on by Adam

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Stuffgamer1

48. Posted:

@clicketyclick: Saad al-Ajmi said that, eh? He makes a good point. Nobody shoot me for pointing out that this reminds me of the old familiar saying: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." I mean to infer nothing by this whatsoever...just sayin'.

@Adam: Sure, if you take that quote out of context... Just like the mass media you are! You get the point though, don't you? Children are not born racist. It's a worldview that is taught by their parents, teachers, and other adult role models.

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Philip_J_Reed

49. Posted:

Stuffgamer1 wrote:

I sincerely doubt that Kennedy was heralded for being Catholic, or Taft for being fat.

The Taft thing was a joke, but you can "sincerely doubt" the dust kicked up over Kennedy's election all you like. Like Obama's race, Kennedy's Catholicism was something that neither side could quite shut up about. And, in fact, they never did until he was forcefully removed from office.

Stuffgamer1 wrote:

There MAY have been some news about the Roosevelt's, but that doesn't seem terribly newsworthy to me and even if it DID get some news, it definitely wasn't as much as Obama has had (and I believe that's not ONLY because this is the media age and that wasn't).

The Roosevelts (both of them) were the original Presidential Media Darlings. If you think the press is in love with Obama (and in many cases, they certainly are) you'd do very well to research a few of these past administrations, since, you know, you're trying to argue the American historical perspective and all. ;) You'd find them very interesting.

EDIT: Adam's correct though, we're drifting off topic. The main point I wanted to respond to was the inane concept of "reverse racism," which Stuffy understands isn't a term that holds up to any scrutiny whatsoever, so that's that for this ol' bird.

Edited on by Philip_J_Reed

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Turbo_Genesis_64

50. Posted:

@clicketyclick

He's a gigantic inspiration for attaining the highest job in the world, despite all of the threats from racist rednecks out there. He's fearlessness is the stuff of legends. He will go down in history as one of the greatest leaders ever.

Obama won the prize like how usually the biggest box office movie wins the Oscar. He's the one that people remember.

Edited on by Turbo_Genesis_64

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Adam

51. Posted:

Stuff, it was a friendly joke. No harm intended. Just pointing out that it is not well-worded so that you don't open yourself up to decontextualization (Chrome doesn't believe this is a word, but I'm going to say it is) in the future.

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Stuffgamer1

52. Posted:

@Chicken Brutus: Okay, so I don't know everything. What you've just told me wasn't revealed in my history books. I now have even less faith in this country's media than I did already, because I now know it's been extremely stupid for a lot longer than I thought it had. :(

And if you think a man being Catholic caused trouble, just wait until we get the first president who doesn't claim to be Christian at all! Shudder.

EDIT @Adam: Okay, gotcha. It kind of looked like that, but I wanted to cover my bases. :P

Edited on by Stuffgamer1

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strade

53. Posted:

I don't think he deserves it at all. The 1st African-American to become president is not earning it. He needs to do something great in office to get it.

strade

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Turbo_Genesis_64

54. Posted:

strade wrote:

I don't think he deserves it at all. The 1st African-American to become president is not earning it. He needs to do something great in office to get it.

He wasn't the 1st black president, others have done that around the world, but he's the 1st black president of a superpower nation.

Edited on by Turbo_Genesis_64

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Stuffgamer1

55. Posted:

@Turbo Genesis 64: When people say "president," they usually mean "of the United States." I thought you'd know that...?

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Adam

56. Posted:

Wow, like we didn't all know what he meant there... :P

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Turbo_Genesis_64

57. Posted:

Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson have ran for president, but never got elected because they didn't appeal to non-black voters.

Obama won because he doesn't try to open up old wounds like slavery and discrimination. Plus, he gives hard heart-to-heart talks to the black community about delicate issues that white people can't give such as the epidemic problems of black fathers not being responsible with their children and that being well educated and speaking eloquently doesn't make you a sell out to your own race.

He's trying to end the self-sabotaging that has plagued minority communities for generations. That alone is worth a Nobel Peace Prize in my opinion.

Edited on by Turbo_Genesis_64

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theblackdragon

58. Posted:

@Stuffo: I know you've already had it out with Adam over what you said before, but I'd like to link you to some articles that may help you to shape your views on racism and how it works:

A Look at the Myth of Reverse Racism
some thought-provoking blurbs
Hating Whitey: The Myth of Black Racism
Racism = Prejudice + Power
Globalizing Hate: Power and Prejudice (a look at racism outside the US)
Here's What White Privilege Sounds Like...
This is Your Nation on White Privilege

these links are by no means the be-all, end-all of racism information on the internet, but i hope they help you where you're at right now. :3

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Stuffgamer1

59. Posted:

@Turbo Genesis 64: Well, none of what you just said sounds particularly political, but it IS stuff I think is a good idea, so...Obama's not ALL bad. But then, I don't REALLY think ANYONE is ALL bad. Promoting education and responsible parenting is DEFINITELY something I can support, though. It's a shame I haven't really heard anything about that until just now.

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Turbo_Genesis_64

60. Posted:

@Stuffgamer1

Thanks for agreeing with me and seeing the good in Obama and his policies.

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