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Topic: So, maybe I'm just getting old...

Posts 21 to 40 of 64

NEStalgia

I think it's a broader reflection of the entertainment industry as a whole, and the market demographic of most of the gaming industry as a whole. More and more and more the games industry, which was once it's own thing, is behaving as an extension of the film & TV industry. For quite some time, endless expletives and portrayal of pretty much every vice imagined has been the mainstay for that medium as it went for shock factor and "edge", to the point that a lot of people get turned off by it. The games industry is now imitating that, and particularly Ubisoft who often references HBO as an inspiration among its design teams. That and they're French. Foul language has been elevated to an art form within the French and Italian languages....getting cussed out in those languages is a weirdly enjoyable experience, like the melody of a poem sung as an aria.... (Weirdly, those are Nintendo's strongest two countries in the EU.... )

South Park....well......it's South Park.

But the other aspect is most of the "hardcore" (non-Nintendo) gaming industry is focused on the adolescent and pre-adolescent age groups, which traditionally seek anything that's socially rejected as a badge of maturity. Giving them "sex, drugs, and rock & roll" worked for comics, music, film, TV, and now games. Got to admit BG&E is just weird. An online persistent world with a tone shift to gritty street talk. Still looks cool but...weird...

It also, like a lot of the games (and films/tv) feels forced. Normal people would not use so much in a dialog, it's added to create a feel to cater to the demographic.

Disgaea 5...on Switch of all things, features a decent amount of all these same words....but it doesn't feel out of place there, it fits in, because it's not forced......it's low class demon penguins talking as they normally would (I mean all the demon penguins I know talk that way so I assume they all do. ) It's like these companies had checklists that they had to it quotas.

NEStalgia

Spoony_Tech

@BlueKnight07 I'm with you on this one. BG&E2 is a game I would expect my kids to be able to play and yet that trailer killed any hopes of that. Can't even fathom why they would go that route and it seemed so forced as well. The first game didn't even come close to thinking they would go this route.

John 8:7 He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.

MERG said:

If I was only ever able to have Monster Hunter and EO games in the future, I would be a happy man.

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the_shpydar

Being a life long New Yorker, and Long Islander in particular, i would not have even noticed there was any cussing in the BG&E2 vid if not for some people making a stink about it.

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Gamecubed

I work at a restaurant. Anyone that has ever worked at a restaurant will understand that there are a lot of colourful phrases and stories uttered in the kitchen all day, every day. It's certainly not a place where you'd take your grandmother for tea. Just how it is. You get used to it.
So when there is swearing and vulgarity in games, I just don't notice or I just dismiss it. I don't think it always needs to be there and I will admit that there have been a couple of times where it has been somewhat immersion breaking in some way, especially if up until that point, it hasn't been that kind of game.

I think game developers are just trying to be in the fold that is modern media. You watch TV/films, you read comics, you listen to music, you read books etc. everybody in the last maybe ten years has gone into this "edgy" route. There are adult themes in almost every single show on TV. Everyone wants to be "mature". Game developers realize that the demographic is growing up and is largely made up of people in their 20s, 30s and 40s that consume this other media that all have these themes.

That said, if I had children, there is no way I would ever let them play like 90% of the games shown at E3 until they were fifteen. Sometimes it's like watching an HBO show.

Gamecubed

Tyranexx

I don't mind some swearing as long as it suits the character, but I will admit the mafia pig dude in the BG&E trailer was a bit over the top with the swearing. If a game starts sounding like The Hangover (funny as it is), then I feel like its writers were not trying hard enough in that scene.

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RR529

I think the big point in the OP that everyone has glossed over is the fact that E3 is an advertising event, and the conferences aren't age restricted, and thus are viewable by all ages (though the violence shown in games like Days Gone would be a bigger issue than language, I would think).

I only bring this up because the most gratuitous language/violence in mature films/TV isn't shown in advertising material (at least in the US). I guess you do hit a bit of a tough spot with games because of gameplay demos (you'd either have to remove the most gratuitous content for the conference demo build, or show a scripted cinematic scene to purposefully avoid the more gruesome parts, both of which wouldn't be the most honest way to showcase the game), but it's hard to say.

Theoretically, games like Super Lucky's Tale, Moss, & Mario + Rabbids (in the Ubisoft conference) would appeal more to kids than adults, and the sports and racing games have more all ages appeal, yet a lot of other games aren't suitable for a younger audience.

Maybe they should order their lineup in a progressive manner. Start out with kid friendly/family titles (Skylanders, Lego, etc.), move on to all ages titles (Fortza, Madden, etc.), then teen focused games (Star Wars, Final Fantasy, etc.), and lastly adult focus, with a quick warning from the host beforehand (GTA, Days Gone, etc.).

This would allow them to show their adult titles in all their glory, while also giving parents a warning beforehand (kids can still find a way around it of course, some always do, but it could keep your 5 or 6 year old from seeing the new Mortal Kombat by accident, for example). Heck, after the fact, this order could make it easier for the companies to release the conference in parts (on YouTube), that way you can sit down and watch the family friendly, all ages, and maybe teen portions of the show with your kids (and heck, the youngest ones probably wouldn't know, or care, that it isn't live, and they can still get the conference experience).

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piercinghearts

Its the same with cartoons nowadays. There are innuendos everywhere you look. Old cartoons, new cartoon, advertisments. So i agree its a bit much. I use it, but to be comedic. I joke around on my youtube channel, which you can find on my profile, just to make people laugh lol

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BlueKnight07

Thanks for the responses.

@RR529 Yeah, that was what spurred me to post this. What got me started is I watched the Ubisoft conference for Mario + Rabbids and BG&E2 and wasn't expecting the profanity to be what it was. I wish they would do something like you described.

@Spoony_Tech @NEStalgia @Tyranexx Yes, BGE&2 really shocked me. To me the original had a certain maturity in it's themes, but for me the trailer took away some of it's charm...I don't know how else to say it.

BlueKnight07

Filth_Element

I agree with the pro swearers here. I personally don't think adding cuss words is edgy. When used right within any media it makes it feel more real to me. I'd be pulled out of the moment if the hero just had his/her partner killed and they just said "oh my golly". Yes I know an extreme example but I'm just trying to get my point across. When put in extreme situations I swear as do most people therefore to not put it in your script would be unrealistic.

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

NEStalgia

@BlueKnight07 I was amazed when I watched Treehouse coverage of Rabbids and saw a weapon named "Hell in a Shell" (Attention mods: That's actual on-screen text in an upcoming Mario game!!) and some part of my inner psyche channeled Cartman from South Park, in his voice saying "Like, what the heck, man? Why are there *ing curse words in a *ing Mario game. *ing children... are gonna' play this... and see your *ing curse words, dude! I. Am Personally. *ing offended right now."

Untitled

I actually like South Park. I don't watch it, but what I have seen of it I like, specifically because of the above. It's excessive because it's a satire of excessiveness. In the same way Charles Shultz' Peanuts were the image of adults trapped in childrens bodies of the 1950's, South Park is that image of today's kids. They're a mirror of the world around them, in an almost innocent way without realizing how corrupted they are. The irony of declaring outrage of "minor" curse words by unloading a whole bunch of major ones without even being aware of that contradiction because they live in a world of BG&E2, and HBO, and their parents probably cursing like sailors. So I don't mind that one, it's part of the problem in a way that points out the problem and never takes sides, eviscerating EVERYONE's hypocrisy. I really was hoping Fractured But Whole came to Switch for that reason Despite my "anti-swear" stance to a degree.

@Filth_Element It's chicken and egg though, isn't it? The more it's reflected in media, the more people imitate media characters, even as a joke, the more it enters the real world, so the more it enters media..... I'm not one for 'sanitize media to create utopia!" but it's also unrealistic to ignore the correlation. It's become more prominent in reality because it became more prominent in media (trying to be edgy), therefore more has to be a baseline in media to be real, and then they need even more to be edgy. So it keeps escalating. (Always calls to mind the scene on the bus in Search for Spock.)

NEStalgia

BlueKnight07

@NEStalgia Very true lol, there's a place for it. I just wonder why it's placed where it is sometimes, I guess.

BlueKnight07

Spoony_Tech

What's more odd for me is Michel Ancel is behind this. Now I'm not saying he's a saint or anything but after the first Beyond and all the Raymans it's a bit of a step back and Oh, ok, didn't expect that.

John 8:7 He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.

MERG said:

If I was only ever able to have Monster Hunter and EO games in the future, I would be a happy man.

I'm memory of @Mr_Trill_281 (rip) 3-25-18

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Filth_Element

@NEStalgia I am not 100% with you there. Yes media has had more and more swearing etc in recent years. I grew up in an age when the word crap wasn't uttered on TV and yet me and my friends would swear non stop with each other. All the games we played would never dare mention naughty words whilst we heckled each other using all sorts of very colourful language.
So no it wasn't edgy entertainment that influenced our edgy manner in which we talked with each other. But certainly that generation of entertainers who were young and wanted to break down old conventions and archetypes largely build up by a majority of Christian ideals would forge their own path and create new exciting media for their peers, ie; me. It's them that made some great things with swear words, sometimes yes maybe excessively see Guns N Roses the Spaghetti Incident, but still to that generation it felt real. And that's why it's continued to maintain a strong place within media today not because its edgy but to us and the next gen it's common place because we bloody swear, a lot!

Also there is some article about intelligent people swear more like professors etc. I can't be bothered to find it but I'm sure if you really want to it shouldn't be hard to source.

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

Luna_110

I do use some light swearing in my day to day life, but when people start using heavy swears out of nowhere for no reason I usually change my tune. I don't like stand up comedy that uses profanity for example - if the comedian can't make me laugh with jokes or innuendo, and has to resort to profanity, then people aren't laughing at him, they're laughing at his language.

In games like Bayo 2 where is quite mild and it goes with the game's tone I like it - Bayo's reaction when she forgets where Loki is something you could see everyday (****! The boy....) but I did feel Beyond Good and Evil 2's use of profanity was over the top and really out of tone with the original game. Plus, do you really need to swear in every single sentence? Isn't english a prettier language?

What does set me off, truthfully, is when I see the spanish language being butchered in english media for no reason at all. They put in sometimes characters that you tell their accent is so fake and that they learned the line in spanish just for the occasion and it makes me want to scream. Or at the very least, mute the audio. I guess its similar for British when an American actor tries to imitate a British accent and fails.

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skywake

Luna_110 wrote:

I don't like stand up comedy that uses profanity for example - if the comedian can't make me laugh with jokes or innuendo, and has to resort to profanity, then people aren't laughing at him, they're laughing at his language.

Maybe my perspective on this is a bit different because I'm Australian. Usually comics here are making fun of themselves and their lack of "culture" as an Australian. Or making fun of the idea that people think we're uncultured. And when people come from overseas to do comedy they do the fish out of water bit. And the easiest way to highlight that you're "being Australian" is to swear a lot.

For example this guy. He's not swearing for laughs, he's swearing to highlight "Australian": (language obviously)

Edited on by skywake

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LuckyLand

I have nothing against profanity, sometimes a product (game, movie, book) need it to be believable and stay true to what it wants to portray, but when such things are gratuitous, when it becomes too much or out of place it becomes just pathetic. When I see such things usually I end up feeling ashamed somehow. It's like a little child who desperately try to look as cool as adult guys look to his eyes but really can't understand what the secret is.

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gcunit

@LuckyLand That ashamed feeling is just your childhood indoctrination at work - let it go you ****** ****

You guys had me at blood and semen.

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Timppis

@gcunit

Having cultural and linguistic restrictions, rules and even taboos is not a sign of some sort of failure as a species. One might even say it is the exact opposite. Having and being able to recognize these sort of things makes our communication much more vivid and meaningful.

Not recognizing these however. Well it's best said by this.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1493134403-20170425.png

And few others relating this topic.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20150216.png

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1487864728-20170223.png

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130131.gif

Also what comes to BG&E2 trailer, who gives a f**k what obviously narratively bad character says regarding foul language? Nor a human chimp hybrid that is apparently a kind of a d**k to start with.

Edited on by Timppis

Timppis

NEStalgia

@Filth_Element "me and my friends would swear non stop with each other. All the games we played would never dare mention naughty words whilst we heckled each other using all sorts of very colourful language."

But you did it because it was edgey, because it was "naughty", which is what kids do. The media does what it does, it gives you what you want to see. Not sure about AUS, but in the US it was the rise of cable TV that moved media in that direction. Broadcast TV couldn't do it (regulated not to), but cable came up with no rules.....and they VERY much catered to that young, edge seeking audience you describe you and your friends to have been at the time. But as always the media ramps things up to 11. If some is good, more is better! It's a circle...you guys were using it in your counter-cultural adolescence, the media wanted your money so they did it even more to appeal to you, and then that normalized it and people sought to do it more. It's not that media "caused" it, but it's a feedback loop.

But if it weren't "bad" and "forbidden" you guys wouldn't have been using it back then. And they wouldn't be throwing it around in media. It's the fact that it's "bad" that gives it any effect at all, and when overused ruins any effect it would have had and instead just makes it sound like it's just being as "bad" as possible just for the sake of it.

@Luna_110 Good point about comedians. I don't object to obscenities in comedy.....if it actually works. George Carlin worked magic with obscenities. It worked, it was funny, because it was genuine. Someone mentioned Billy Connoly earlier, same for him, John Cleese (though he's more mild and pointed about it.) But any time I listen to comedy on the non-family rated channels I cringe....most of it isn't funny, it's just angrily shouting expletives for no apparent reason. There's this trend in commedy that the more you swear the funnier you are.....and somehow their inebriated audiences seem to believe it. But it's just not funny at most of the time, there's no joke.

@LuckyLand I think that summarizes it well. It's excessive, it tries too hard. The thing with the pig ranting and using it every sentence in the BG&E trailer just left me with this "is it done yet?" feeling. I didn't mind the Cockney monkey doing it so much...it worked...it fit the voice (even if the voice didn't fit the character), but the pig it was just needless.

NEStalgia

MasterWario

Let's not forget that at least some of these words are taught as "bad" because of the actual definitions in the first place. You can make a case that they shouldn't be illegal/frowned-upon words, but that's not a case for, and that might even be a case against using these words every other sentence. I wouldn't want to be the target of those words anymore than I would like to be called "the scum of the earth". The only difference is people would assume you're using hyperbole for the latter, because otherwise that's just awful.

To me they are nasty words by their definitions, which is why I've tried to cut "crap" out from my word diet as well, unless of course I need its actual definition in a sentence.

Like I don't mind if you curse a lot; I'm used to it at this point, and some people curse well and naturally. But don't try and tell me they're "good" words as well. If they were actually good words, you would only use them when actually appropriate in a sentence; which, dear me, I hope you don't actually like to talk about feces that much!

Maybe someone can explain to me, but I just don't see how you can argue for both the words being good (i.e. not bad) and using them often wherever you feel like. It's one or the other.

Edited on by MasterWario

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