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Topic: Settle this debate, science-heads...

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Linkstrikesback

When the Anchor is sitting in the boat, it displaces its entire mass equivalent in the water.
Once it falls in the water, it would only displace its volume in the water.

Say for example, the anchor is made of steel (density ~7850kg/m^3), and is a 1 m^3 block. Then, while in the boat, it displaces a whopping 7850kg of water.
Since waters density is only around 1000kg/m^3, thats 7.85 m^3 of water displaced.

Once you drop it in though, it's only displacing a single m^3 of water.
Therefore the water level will drop once you drop the anchor into the water.

So there you go, it displaces more when it's in the boat, as long as the anchor is denser than water. Of course, if it isn't, it'd be useless as an anchor, since it would just float on the water surface.

Edit: Also, try dropping ice cubes in water and look at the water level.

Ice is less dense than water (it's one of the few solids that is less dense than its liquid form), so it isn't a good example, since it'd be a bad anchor.

If a tree fell in a forest and no one was around to see it, did it make a noise? Debatable. Hmm.

Easy. Is the tree a quantum mechanical system? No, it isn't. Therefore experimental results aren't affected by whether an event is observed or not, the results are exactly the same, and it made a noise.

Edit: Yeah, I somehow missed someone posting the answer on the page before. Whoops.

Edited on by Linkstrikesback

Linkstrikesback

warioswoods

Linkstrikesback wrote:

Edit: Yeah, I somehow missed someone posting the answer on the page before. Whoops.

That's alright, your version of the solution is more concise and to the point than the one I linked.

Twitter is a good place to throw your nonsense.
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Geonjaha

Viewtiful_Joe wrote:

If a tree fell in a forest and no one was around to see it, did it make a noise? Debatable. Hmm.

I think you mean if someone was around to hear it, and yes - of course it made a noise. Try and get past the belief that it only exists if something can sense it.

Edited on by Geonjaha

Geonjaha

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MrArcade

This thread is destroying my brain cells.

MrArcade

retired_account

1. The boat is weighted down in the water by the heavy anchor.
2. The anchor is then submerged underwater. The inside of the boat becomes lighter, but the same amount of weight keeps pulling it down.

My hunch? The boat stays submerged by the same amount, but the water level rises because of the extra space the anchor takes up.

I don't really know though. The water pressure would probably have an effect on it. I'm not a science buff by any stretch of the imagination, haha.

Edited on by retired_account

retired_account

Linkstrikesback

pixelman wrote:

1. The boat is weighted down in the water by the heavy anchor.
2. The anchor is submerged underwater. The inside of the boat becomes lighter, but the same amount of weight keeps pulling it down.

My hunch? The boat stays submerged by the same amount, but the water level rises because of the extra space the anchor takes up.

I don't really know though. The water pressure would probably have an effect on it. I'm not a science buff by any stretch of the imagination, haha.

If the entire boat was underwater to start with, it wouldn't matter where you put the anchor, it would still displace the same amount of water and the water level would stay the same (once any vibrations because of moving the anchor stop anyway).
Since the entire boat was already underwater, it wouldn't rise anyway because the waters weight would prevent it rising (Unless it's filled with air/something else lighter than water somehow).

Linkstrikesback

theblackdragon

where is pix saying the boat is underwater? i think i missed that part?

that said, as to whether any portion of the boat would naturally float above the surface or not (thus displacing less water), i think it'd depend on the density of the wood involved and how much air is trapped within the boat's shape. it would probably also depend on whether the boat was properly waterproofed to begin with.

Edited on by theblackdragon

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retired_account

Yeah, I never said it was underwater. All I said was that "part" of it would stay submerged. Not the whole thing.

Edited it to make it a little(?) bit clearer.

Edited on by retired_account

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The_Fox

warioswoods wrote:

Also, thanks: now I'm going to have to try this when I get home, using a heavy, dense object siting inside a small, boatlike object floating in my bathtub.

And now you know how I wash my junk.

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theblackdragon

The_Fox wrote:

warioswoods wrote:

Also, thanks: now I'm going to have to try this when I get home, using a heavy, dense object siting inside a small, boatlike object floating in my bathtub.

And now you know how I wash my junk.

I hereby nominate this thread for Hall of Fame status.

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LordTendoboy

I love science, but I mainly studied dinosaurs and astronomy as a kid.

Physics I didn't really care about.

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Linkstrikesback

pixelman wrote:

Yeah, I never said it was underwater. All I said was that "part" of it would stay submerged. Not the whole thing.

In that case, I've already explained it. Archimedes Law(or Archimedes Principle, same thing) is used when the boat is floating on the waters surface, and states that the mass of the water displaced is equal to the mass of the anchor.

Once the anchor is in the water, it only displaces it's own volume in water, and the water level falls. Unless the anchor is less dense than the water, the it would displace less water by being dropped in. However, if it was less dense than water it'd float on the surface and be useless as an anchor.

Edited on by Linkstrikesback

Linkstrikesback

SlyGuy29

Before you throw the anchor, the anchor becomes so heavy that the boat sinks and you drown in the tank.

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Neonpowerstar

@Linkstrikesback pretty much explained it all, but since I would consider myself fairly knowledgeable on this subject (I'm not trying to brag about this, but I do know quite a bit about physics) I'll throw in my own explanation.
When an object is first thrown into water, it sinks until it has displaced an amount of water with a mass equal to its own mass because then it is in equilibrium with the water. However, the maximum amount of water an object can displace is equal to the object's volume. If the object does not have enough volume to displace an amount of water with a mass equal to its own mass (i.e. it is too dense), the object sinks to the bottom. This is why objects less dense than water float (in water) and objects that are more dense than water sink. Example: suppose a cork ball is 1/4 as dense as water. When the ball is dropped into a glass of water, how much of the cork's volume is underwater? Since the cork is 1/4 the density of water, a volume of water equal to 1/4 of the cork's volume will have the same mass as the cork, therefore the cork displaces 1/4 its volume in water. So 1/4 the volume of the cork will be underwater.
Now to the actual problem. First off, I'll make two assumptions: 1) that the boat with the anchor onboard floats and 2) that the anchor is more dense than water, both of which I believe are perfectly reasonable. At first, since the boat with the anchor floats, it displaces an amount of water with a mass equal to the combined mass of the boat and the anchor. When the anchor is dropped, it sinks to the bottom. Note that it is important that the anchor is completely on the bottom with slack on the chain! That ensures that it is just as if the anchor had been tossed overboard without a chain. The boat still displaces an amount of water with a mass equal to its own, however since the anchor sinks, it only displaces an amount of water with a volume equal to its own. Since the anchor is denser than water, the mass of water with the same volume as the anchor is less than the mass of the anchor itself.
Before the anchor is dropped, the amount of water displaced has a mass equal to the mass of the boat plus the mass of the anchor. After the anchor is dropped, the amount of water displaced is less than that- it only has a mass equal to the mass of the boat plus the mass of water with the same volume as the anchor. Therefore, the water level goes down.
Note that the two assumptions above are crucial. If the anchor is replaced with an object less dense than water (say a foam ball), then the water level stays the same because the ball is still displacing its mass in water. It's only when the object can't displace its mass in water (i.e. it sinks) that the water level goes down.

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LordTendoboy

NeonShell7 wrote:

@Linkstrikesback pretty much explained it all, but since I would consider myself fairly knowledgeable on this subject (I'm not trying to brag about this, but I do know quite a bit about physics) I'll throw in my own explanation.
When an object is first thrown into water, it sinks until it has displaced an amount of water with a mass equal to its own mass because then it is in equilibrium with the water. However, the maximum amount of water an object can displace is equal to the object's volume. If the object does not have enough volume to displace an amount of water with a mass equal to its own mass (i.e. it is too dense), the object sinks to the bottom. This is why objects less dense than water float (in water) and objects that are more dense than water sink. Example: suppose a cork ball is 1/4 as dense as water. When the ball is dropped into a glass of water, how much of the cork's volume is underwater? Since the cork is 1/4 the density of water, a volume of water equal to 1/4 of the cork's volume will have the same mass as the cork, therefore the cork displaces 1/4 its volume in water. So 1/4 the volume of the cork will be underwater.
Now to the actual problem. First off, I'll make two assumptions: 1) that the boat with the anchor onboard floats and 2) that the anchor is more dense than water, both of which I believe are perfectly reasonable. At first, since the boat with the anchor floats, it displaces an amount of water with a mass equal to the combined mass of the boat and the anchor. When the anchor is dropped, it sinks to the bottom. Note that it is important that the anchor is completely on the bottom with slack on the chain! That ensures that it is just as if the anchor had been tossed overboard without a chain. The boat still displaces an amount of water with a mass equal to its own, however since the anchor sinks, it only displaces an amount of water with a volume equal to its own. Since the anchor is denser than water, the mass of water with the same volume as the anchor is less than the mass of the anchor itself.
Before the anchor is dropped, the amount of water displaced has a mass equal to the mass of the boat plus the mass of the anchor. After the anchor is dropped, the amount of water displaced is less than that- it only has a mass equal to the mass of the boat plus the mass of water with the same volume as the anchor. Therefore, the water level goes down.
Note that the two assumptions above are crucial. If the anchor is replaced with an object less dense than water (say a foam ball), then the water level stays the same because the ball is still displacing its mass in water. It's only when the object can't displace its mass in water (i.e. it sinks) that the water level goes down.

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Neonpowerstar

Linkstrikesback wrote:

If a tree fell in a forest and no one was around to see it, did it make a noise? Debatable. Hmm.

Easy. Is the tree a quantum mechanical system? No, it isn't. Therefore experimental results aren't affected by whether an event is observed or not, the results are exactly the same, and it made a noise.

According to the most widely accepted interpretation of quantum mechanics, that's incorrect. The tree is a quantum mechanical system, it's just that because it's so large it has an extremely short decoherence time, so short that for all intents and purposes it does not exhibit any quantum mechanical "weirdness".
@LordTendoboy Lol TMI? Well information overloading is my specialty! What did you expect? Seriously, though, go see some of my posts in the MK7 Discussion thread and you'll see what I mean.
BTW next time I need to explode someone's head on NL I'll just write up another short essay on physics

Edited on by Neonpowerstar

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sykotek

Without reading anyone else's response and utilizing only my vastly superior intellect...
I presume, with all things being equal, that it will be that the level of the water, when settled, will be the same... or (aka) exactly as @Chicken_Brutus has predicted.

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Lan

sykotek wrote:

Without reading anyone else's response and utilizing only my vastly superior intellect...
I presume, with all things being equal, that it will be that the level of the water, when settled, will be the same... or (aka) exactly as @Chicken_Brutus has predicted.

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