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Topic: Protect you digital rights

Posts 41 to 60 of 86

Illusion

@Hikingguy that's why I have 3 VCRs that I picked up at yard sales for $5 each. When one dies, I've got spares since some of my VHS tapes will never get DVD, bluray, or digital releases. Also explains my copy of Legend of Zelda across several systems and computers. I'd rather not lose access to it somehow.

Illusion

NEStalgia

@Hikingguy Unless it's an EA, Ubisoft, 2K, Activision, Warner, Squeenix, THQ-Nordic, or other such game, where to play your disc you need to log into their servers, download the patch, and/or the rest of the discs content in order to make the game even playable. My Just Cause 3 PS4 disc has a game breaking bug where it crashes consistently without saving in the TUTORIAL. Meaning you can never escape the tutorial without the patch.

Back in the day there was a game breaking bug in my copy of Myst. To fix it they shipped out a replacement disc. Today you download the patch...so long as the servers are up.

Lets face it, we keep debating physical and digital. We got hosed, either way. I'll forever advocate for physical due to the restrictions of internet for so many people, limitations, and the fact you can't rely on it working at any time. Plus the market of supply/demand allowing consumers to control pricing in a free market manner as opposed to "authorized dealer" MAP antics in a medium where supply is unlimited and prices match only demand in a controlled economy not resembling a free market at all. But I think the "I hold the rights and they can't control when I get to play it" argument no longer works for modern games....they found a way to end run around us. It's purely about internet usage/reliability. They own our rights and plan the obsolescence regardless of medium now. (Nintendo being a lone exception, though even they have game breaking day 0 patches now.)

Now for the rest of what you say, that's a Nintendo specific problem. Only Nintendo locks your purchases to one console (that may be changing in Sept however.) The other two you mark one console your primary, and can play your games on any console you log into. Of course if the servers are gone....you're back to a Nintendo situation. Ideally DRM should be like copyright. It must be made to expire in 10 years or something like that.

I'm not a fan of MS, but of the 3 companies, right now, I do trust MS to be more Steam-like in terms of keeping your library available indefinitely.

NEStalgia

RenderSpotlight

@NEStalgia my theory really only works with anything earlier than lets say 2006??? After that, all bets are off. And shame on the consumers for not demanding better! I do not blame the companies. Companies will always try to push the envelope. They only push until the consumer gives resistance. I have said it before, gamers are way too forgiving. They should demand better. But instead they keep setting for less and less as each year goes by.

Once again, in the short term and with access to quality internet, you are correct with "logging" in, but in the time frame of the original example, Atari about 40 years ago, in 40 years in the future, there is zero guarantee that anything online will still be around. I mean, when was the last time you use Netscape to surf the web or give the Dreamcast's version of Rayman 2 website a try, rayman2dc.com , nothing.
I mean these are way more current than Atari.

Steam does seem like the everlasting console.
MS is a huge corporation, once they no longer see any money to be made, they will pull the plug. In the words of Ice Cube, "Don't trust 'em"
Just make sure every game you own is either DRM free or load up on 80's and 90's games and enjoy a little NHL 94. Nintendo does get a little bit more of a pass, they, almost alway, deliver a playable game. I mean, Zelda BotW, even before the patches, is still playable.

RenderSpotlight

Slitth

@redd214 It was when the license was lock on the hardware.
Anyway the was a data conflict in the update and the copy of the game was lost.
Only way to prove the purchase was with a credit card receipt.

Slitth

RenderSpotlight

@Alikan Very wise. But of course I wish that would hold true for everything. Because even if you loaded up with 3 Switch consoles, in 40 years if your main one is totally broke, your grandchildren will never be able to transfer the rights to play the games. But they will be able to play your VHS tapes

I am not sure if there is a good solution that any game company right now is willing to do. I mean ideally if they were consumer friendly at the far end of the life cycle of a device, I mean after they are not going to even support the device any more, and especially if other better options are available, it would really nice if they pushed out an update that got rid of all DRM and allowed any console to play any game legally purchased. I mean that is what I can do with my NES/Genesis/SNES/Atari.... right now. No?

I hear ya though!

RenderSpotlight

Slitth

Let take another probability.
Nintendo make a Switch 2. I can run all the only physical copies of the games from the original Switch.
But any and all DLC you bought on the Switch cannot be moved to the Switch 2.

Slitth

RenderSpotlight

@redd214 I believe that you are correctly. But what I also believe is that any game you buy on a particular console, lets say Wii U, should be playable on another replacement console, even decades later.
I can play my copy of Pro Wrestling on my NES or my buddy's NES as long as all is in working order. As long as I own the cart, I should have access to play that game on any equivalent working console. But from what I read that is not even the case anymore

But I would never expect to play my NES game on a SNES. I should hope that would be obvious to anyone. Unless, of course, they made a converter like the Master System did for the Genesis/Mega Drive. Then you are in even better shape!

Edited on by RenderSpotlight

RenderSpotlight

LzWinky

Slitth wrote:

Let take another probability.
Nintendo make a Switch 2. I can run all the only physical copies of the games from the original Switch.
But any and all DLC you bought on the Switch cannot be moved to the Switch 2.

What's the purpose of this conversation if you're only talking hypothetically?

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

LuckyLand

NEStalgia wrote:

But if your account gets locked, banned, hacked, stolen, or the account gets damaged/corrupted/whatever....there goes every game you've ever owned all at once. There's still big risk. Especially regarding hacks.

Ok there is still some risk, but a bit smaller than you say. If my games are playable ofdfline (and I don't buy games that are not playable offline) I still can play all my games as long as the hard disk/SD card work properly even if something like this happens.
Of course it is bad and it will cause problems, but I don't immediately lose all my games anyway and I will be able to still play them maybe even for a long period of time. I just lose my right to download them again.
Let's hope something like this does not happen anyway

I used to be a ripple user like you, then I took The Arrow in the knee

Don

I’m actually furious that Nintendo forces us to transfer all downloads of VC games from Wii to Wii U in order to get that upgrade discount when downloading from Wii U shop. So when my Wii U dies and Nintendo stops Wii U eshop I have no backups. Not only do I lose my Wii U VC games but my Wii VC games as well due to the requirement to transfer to one system for the discount.

Edited on by Don

Don

Slitth

@TheLZdragon Because Nintendo is doing this right now!
I have a copy of Zelda BOTW + DLC on my Wii U.
The user rights should be bound to my Nintendo account.
And if I use my Nintendo account on a Switch, Nintendo decides that my user rights for Zelda does not work on this system.
Now to me, being able to read data from account, but choosing to ignore some of it because you can earn some more money is questionable.
By using an account I am give Nintendo a lot of data about myself.
What game I buy, friends and all that. This is worth a lot to Nintendo.
But when all this data should have some benefit to users Nintendo chooses not to give it to us.

The real critical point about all this is.
Login in with a account and inserting a game disk does the same thing.
It proves you have user rights to play the game.

Because the OS know how you handle you account, it knows how to get license data from the account and it knows how to run the game.
But Nintendo chooses not to let the OS know about all the license data from the account.

Slitth

redd214

@Slitth it's a completely different system. You purchased the right to play Zelda on your Wii u and that's what you are given. You are not in any way owed more than that and nintendo is not infringing on your rights because you can't play the same thing on the switch for free. That's not what you bought and nothing is being taken from you at all. expecting that right to carry over to a different system is utter entitlement and unreasonable when not explicitly advertised as a crossbuy game.

redd214

LzWinky

Uh, no you don’t have rights. When you buy computer software, you don’t get both the pc and Mac versions. Same concept applies here.

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

Shellcore

@TheLZdragon I don't feel we are owed anything, but not sure about the Mac/PC comparison. This is more about buying a game/music/movie on iPhone 4 and being able to download it for free on iPhone 5 from the same store. The same for new PCs with different graphics cards etc...from the same store.

I would like to see backwards compatibility on all digital games going forward to fall in line with other media platforms. I understand that physical is wishful thinking with differing formats etc... I think it falls within the realm of possibility for this to happen and would be very consumer friendly. I don't understand the costs associated with implementing this, but it has happened before with Playstations 2/3 (in differing capacities) and Wii/WiiU (is that physical only, or digital as well. Maybe you could help me out with that bit?)

Buying the same thing (especially digitally) time and time again when all you receive is the license to play doesn't sit right with me when it seems that only consoles follow that model. We can call people "entitled", but its only parity what we seem to be talking about.

Edit: Stated before, but may as well put it here as well. Would be happy to pay an "upgrade" fee for higher definition assets etc...just not full wack.

Edited on by Shellcore

LzWinky

@Shellcore I think you misunderstood. It can certainly be done, but there are no “user rights” in this scenario that entitles us to newer versions.

The PC/Mac may not have been the best example, but BotW for Wii U and switch are two different versions. We only buy one version at a time. We know the switch cannot effectively run the Wii U version.

Unless hackers prove me wrong, I don’t think Wii U games are compatible with switch. The Wii U was able to play all Wii games because of the built in hardware. And yes Wii U can play most physical and digital Wii games.

What is ironic is how the switch is the first Nintendo generation to not have any backward compatibility.

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

LuckyLand

@Shellcore it is not the same game. BOTW for Wii U and Switch are two different versions of the game, the one you can buy on Switch is not the same you can buy on Wii U, they had to make two different versions of the game and you have to choose what you want of the two.
On Wii you could play both Twilight Princess GC and Twilight Princess Wii, if you had Twilight Princess on GC you were able to play your copy of the game without paying anything, but if you wanted the Wii version you had to pay again to have it.
Switch is not retrocompatible with Wii U so you are forced to play its own version of the game so you are forced to pay for it.

I used to be a ripple user like you, then I took The Arrow in the knee

Shellcore

@LuckyLand Thanks for the breakdown of the Zelda games. When games have to be built from the ground up to run on different hardware, I appreciate that there is a large cost involved. My point is that having new hardware iterations that are made to not support older software is a commercially driven decision and not in line with consumer expectations in any other form of digital media. @subpopz put it far better than me, but it is not unreasonable to ask that older games available in digital form (not cross developed etc...) are taken into consideration when designing the new operating system of a future console. I am not naïve enough to think this is an oversight, as the top Switch games in sales charts at the moment are ports. We sit back and accept this because this is the status quo.

@TheLZdragon Completely understand. I get there are no user rights as it is probably written in the user agreements. My point is that maybe there should be. If Switch cannot run Wii games bought through the eShop, then that was a decision made by Nintendo in the planning stage of the Switch. No other form of entertainment I know locks you out of using the same media on newer hardware. I get we aren't entitled or have the rights to anything. It is whether we should do, or not. Going forward, this will be a lot harder for hardware manufacturers to justify as consoles are based on scalable tech common across devices.

LuckyLand

Shellcore wrote:

not in line with consumer expectations in any other form of digital media.

Games are not media, games are programs, you can't expect from games the same things that you expect from video or music.

I used to be a ripple user like you, then I took The Arrow in the knee

Shellcore

@LuckyLand Semantics. We've been over this with Steam and we could even bring programs like Microsoft Office and Photoshop into this as well. They both work and are all programs. I think we understand each other, so will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Edit: Games are media by the way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_media

Edited on by Shellcore

Slitth

TheLZdragon wrote:

Uh, no you don’t have rights. When you buy computer software, you don’t get both the pc and Mac versions. Same concept applies here.

No but I can run it often run it one a Windows 8 and Windows 10 with out having to buy the game again.
If that the program can run on both 8 and 10 that is.

LuckyLand wrote:

@Shellcore it is not the same game. BOTW for Wii U and Switch are two different versions of the game

There are some fact about the BOTW
Both launch on the same day, March 3.

  • Both have a frame rate of 30fps.
  • Both versions of the game offer the same content.
  • On a TV, the Nintendo Switch version of the game renders in 900p while the Wii U version renders in 720p.
    The Nintendo Switch version has higher-quality environmental sounds. As a result, the sound of steps, water, grass, etc. are more realistic and enhance the game’s Open-Air feel.
    The physical copy of the Wii U version will require 3GB of available memory on the Wii U system or an external drive.
    Some icons, such as onscreen buttons, differ between the two versions.
    A Special Edition and Master Edition of the Wii U version are not available.

So the different is graphic setting, sounds setting and controller mapping.
Wow, perhaps I have to thank Nintendo for not have to buy a version of the game that use classic controller

How may PC game do not have the same differences and simply call them settings?

Edited on by Slitth

Slitth

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